Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

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northwood
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby northwood » Sun Feb 27, 2011 2:21 pm

im a resident of this thread- is it too early to start solicitating donations for my soon to be broke self?

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Helmholtz
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby Helmholtz » Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:01 pm

lisjjen wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
sparty99 wrote:You want $160,000 job? Well, that only comes in high price cities. Like New York, where a studio can run $2,000...


lol no

There are V100 firms with main offices in cities like Pittsburgh, Houston, Atlanta, Milwaukee, Seattle, Richmond, St. Louis, Dallas, Cleveland, etc.


lol no

Those V100 aren't paying 160k. Unless you're in SF, LA, DC or NY, you'll be making 140k or less because the price of living is lower.

That being said, I keep circling UMich @ sticker, so despite my negativity, I belong in this thread.


Really? You think that you have to be in SF, LA, DC or NY to make more than $140k in biglaw? Didn't the wide majority of associates at Kirkland in Chicago make more than the associates at Cravath this year?

fwiw, I know people who worked in biglaw in Ohio who started out with pre-bonus $145k salaries. so......

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powerlawyer06
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby powerlawyer06 » Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:09 pm

xyzbca wrote:
powerlawyer06 wrote:If your only goal is to get a JD then yeah maybe 200k is very expensive. If you want to earn a JD and make a ton of money then you need to think about the 200k as an investment in your potential future earnings. And unlike investing in the stock market and other securities this is an investment you have 100% control over. It will pay out as much effort as you put into it.

Sorry to rant but this is a debt support thread not a debt bashing thread.


Thanks for the laugh....

Listen, I'm not trying to dash anybody's dreams or bash anybody for taking out a ton of debt, but I would like to share an alternative approach.

Law school is a gamble. Like most other forms of gambling, if done correctly and within reason, it is okay. However, if you start making bets that you can't afford to lose, you now have a problem. Most people have a wide range of possible outcomes in the LS game. The spectrum looks something like this:

Worst case scenario: $200k in debt and no job/low paying job.
Best case scenario: No debt and $160k salary at your dream employer in your dream city.

If you are really, truly willing to live with the worst case scenario you should take on the debt. In other words, if you can afford to lose the bet you should make the bet. If you think that there is a possibility that you will be unhappy with the worst case scenario (like 99% of the people that end up in that scenario) then you should do everything in your power to take that possibility out of the equation. You shouldn't make the bet if you can't afford to lose it.


The gambling analogy does not work. If we were all making decisions based off of being able to accept the worst case scenario then we would all never do anything good. For instance, I would never drive (worst case scenario: death in a fiery crash), fly in a plane (worst case scenario: death in fiery crash), or go to the beach (worst case scenario: drowning / shark attack). Your logic is definitely faulty but go ahead and use your own system to make decisions in your life. I think you will end up never doing anything significant or serious with yourself.

Additionally, I defnitely feel the people in this thread are doing everything they can to mitigate the risk of a "worst case scenario". Going to a T14 or T6 law school is giving them a much larger chance of landing a significantly high paying career. People like you who focus on the tuition aspect of this process will end up taking a scholarship at a lower ranked school and still end up with 50k of debt for living expenses and absolutely 0 job prospects coming out of law school. Good luck though. :wink:

dakatz
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby dakatz » Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:15 pm

powerlawyer06 wrote:
xyzbca wrote:
powerlawyer06 wrote:If your only goal is to get a JD then yeah maybe 200k is very expensive. If you want to earn a JD and make a ton of money then you need to think about the 200k as an investment in your potential future earnings. And unlike investing in the stock market and other securities this is an investment you have 100% control over. It will pay out as much effort as you put into it.

Sorry to rant but this is a debt support thread not a debt bashing thread.


Thanks for the laugh....

Listen, I'm not trying to dash anybody's dreams or bash anybody for taking out a ton of debt, but I would like to share an alternative approach.

Law school is a gamble. Like most other forms of gambling, if done correctly and within reason, it is okay. However, if you start making bets that you can't afford to lose, you now have a problem. Most people have a wide range of possible outcomes in the LS game. The spectrum looks something like this:

Worst case scenario: $200k in debt and no job/low paying job.
Best case scenario: No debt and $160k salary at your dream employer in your dream city.

If you are really, truly willing to live with the worst case scenario you should take on the debt. In other words, if you can afford to lose the bet you should make the bet. If you think that there is a possibility that you will be unhappy with the worst case scenario (like 99% of the people that end up in that scenario) then you should do everything in your power to take that possibility out of the equation. You shouldn't make the bet if you can't afford to lose it.


The gambling analogy does not work. If we were all making decisions based off of being able to accept the worst case scenario then we would all never do anything good. For instance, I would never drive (worst case scenario: death in a fiery crash), fly in a plane (worst case scenario: death in fiery crash), or go to the beach (worst case scenario: drowning / shark attack). Your logic is definitely faulty but go ahead and use your own system to make decisions in your life. I think you will end up never doing anything significant or serious with yourself.

Additionally, I defnitely feel the people in this thread are doing everything they can to mitigate the risk of a "worst case scenario". Going to a T14 or T6 law school is giving them a much larger chance of landing a significantly high paying career. People like you who focus on the tuition aspect of this process will end up taking a scholarship at a lower ranked school and still end up with 50k of debt for living expenses and absolutely 0 job prospects coming out of law school. Good luck though. :wink:


I think you are playing up the dichotomy too much. Most people who are debating between sticker price T14 offers are not considering scholarships at lower ranked schools that yield 0 job prospects. Sounds more like the description of a T3 school to me. And I don't recall very many threads, if any, in which people are debating going to a T14 at sticker or T3 with scholarship. Don't look at it so black and white. Usually, those with sticker T14 offers get substantial scholarships to some very solid regional schools.

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lolschool2011
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby lolschool2011 » Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:21 pm

This thread offers support for the debt plunge like an AA meeting with a keg in the back would for alcoholism.

TheStrand
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby TheStrand » Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:40 pm

northwood wrote:im a resident of this thread- is it too early to start solicitating donations for my soon to be broke self?

Didn't some girl who paid 200k to go to Northeastern undergrad and is broke as hell end up doing this? I think she actually got some money too.

*EDIT* link: http://www.edulender.com/twohundredthou/ she got 9k

xyzbca
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby xyzbca » Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:55 pm

powerlawyer06 wrote:
The gambling analogy does not work. If we were all making decisions based off of being able to accept the worst case scenario then we would all never do anything good. For instance, I would never drive (worst case scenario: death in a fiery crash), fly in a plane (worst case scenario: death in fiery crash), or go to the beach (worst case scenario: drowning / shark attack). Your logic is definitely faulty but go ahead and use your own system to make decisions in your life. I think you will end up never doing anything significant or serious with yourself.

Additionally, I defnitely feel the people in this thread are doing everything they can to mitigate the risk of a "worst case scenario". Going to a T14 or T6 law school is giving them a much larger chance of landing a significantly high paying career. People like you who focus on the tuition aspect of this process will end up taking a scholarship at a lower ranked school and still end up with 50k of debt for living expenses and absolutely 0 job prospects coming out of law school. Good luck though. :wink:


:roll: You may wish to check your assumptions.

I've already made my choice. I'm well above top 10% (probably top 1%) in my second year at my lower ranked school and well on my way to graduating debt free. My job prospects are just fine, thank you. As far as accomplishing things in my life: I have a wife that loves me, an amazing little boy, I served my country in the USMC and I did pretty well in my pre-LS career (hence I'm on my way to graduating debt free). Even if it all ended today I'd be pretty damn happy with the things I've done in my life.

There are two reasons why I laughed at your comment. First, you assumed that you have "100% control" of your law school destiny. As most law students will tell you, this is false. You are graded on a curve which means your destiny is directly tied to factors and skills which are not within your control. Your classmates may work harder than you, they may have more natural ability than you, they may have a better understanding of what a professor wants, they may be luckier than you, they may enjoy law school more than you, they may cheat.... Whatever those factor may be, one thing is absolutely certain: When graded on a curve, you do not have "100% control" over the outcome of your law school experience. Second, you compared law school to an investment. Your investment strategy makes for crappy investment advice. Rare is the investment professional who will tell you to invest $200k for a 60% chance at a $160k job instead of investing $30k for a 45% shot at a $160k job. Columbia (sticker) v. Cornell ($$$). You tell me which worst case scenario you would rather have given those two choices?

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powerlawyer06
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby powerlawyer06 » Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:27 pm

xyzbca wrote::roll: You may wish to check your assumptions.

I've already made my choice. I'm well above top 10% (probably top 1%) in my second year at my lower ranked school and well on my way to graduating debt free. My job prospects are just fine, thank you.

You realize you are in the minority as far as job prospects and class rank. What about the other 95% of the people who chose your school? How are their job prospects? I doubt they are all debt free.
xyzbca wrote: As far as accomplishing things in my life: I have a wife that loves me, an amazing little boy, I served my country in the USMC and I did pretty well in my pre-LS career (hence I'm on my way to graduating debt free). Even if it all ended today I'd be pretty damn happy with the things I've done in my life.

I am not knocking your life decisions. Thank you for your service to our country. Do you think you would have made these decisions if you were only considering the worst case scenario? Did you consider getting divorced or having your significant other cheat on you as you made the decision to get married? I hope not, that would be crazy. You probably went into marriage with the best of intentions expecting that it would be hard but knowing that you were going to make it work no matter what.
xyzbca wrote:There are two reasons why I laughed at your comment. First, you assumed that you have "100% control" of your law school destiny. As most law students will tell you, this is false. You are graded on a curve which means your destiny is directly tied to factors and skills which are not within your control. Your classmates may work harder than you, they may have more natural ability than you, they may have a better understanding of what a professor wants, they may be luckier than you, they may enjoy law school more than you, they may cheat.... Whatever those factor may be, one thing is absolutely certain: When graded on a curve, you do not have "100% control" over the outcome of your law school experience.

This point is acknowledged. However, I don't think that you have no control either. I believe the people that do the best definitely don't come in with the attitude that they aren't going to try because they have no control anyway.
xyzbca wrote:Second, you compared law school to an investment. Your investment strategy makes for crappy investment advice. Rare is the investment professional who will tell you to invest $200k for a 60% chance at a $160k job instead of investing $30k for a 45% shot at a $160k job. Columbia (sticker) v. Cornell ($$$). You tell me which worst case scenario you would rather have given those two choices?

In this scenario you are comparing two T14s both with great job prospects. I say you should go to the one where you think you will be happiest and will perform the best. Cornell might be a better choice because you will come out with less debt and similiar job prospects. However, this scenario is different then someone getting a full ride at Arizona State (ranked 38th) and paying full sticker at Columbia. The job prospects make a huge difference in the value of that scholarship.

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king3780
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby king3780 » Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:52 pm

TheStrand wrote:
northwood wrote:im a resident of this thread- is it too early to start solicitating donations for my soon to be broke self?

Didn't some girl who paid 200k to go to Northeastern undergrad and is broke as hell end up doing this? I think she actually got some money too.

*EDIT* link: http://www.edulender.com/twohundredthou/ she got 9k


Wonder what the chances are she actually spent that $9k paying down her undergrad debt. More likely she made a couple minimum payments on her loans and blew the rest, much like she did with her COL $ on nights out on the town, a nicer apt, etc.

sparty99
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby sparty99 » Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:53 pm

In this scenario you are comparing two T14s both with great job prospects. I say you should go to the one where you think you will be happiest and will perform the best. Cornell might be a better choice because you will come out with less debt and similiar job prospects. However, this scenario is different then someone getting a full ride at Arizona State (ranked 38th) and paying full sticker at Columbia. The job prospects make a huge difference in the value of that scholarship.[/quote]

Yale is a great school. But so is the University of Illinois with a full-ride.

Where do you think Baker Botts - Houston office or Dallas-office recruits their lawyers? Answer: UT-Austin, SMU, and Houston.

Where do you think government institutions and law firms in Phoenix go when they need lawyers? Answer: Arizona State, Arizona....

Where do the DA's in Dallas or the IRS Dallas office recruit attorneys? Answer: SMU.

University of Illinois and Notre Dame are not T14, but in Chicago their graduates do well in terms of placement.

Are the Yale graduates with a 2.5 gpa going to get the interview at Baker Botts over the Southern Methodist University graduate with a 3.8 gpa?

FiveSermon
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby FiveSermon » Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:54 pm

sparty99 wrote:In this scenario you are comparing two T14s both with great job prospects. I say you should go to the one where you think you will be happiest and will perform the best. Cornell might be a better choice because you will come out with less debt and similiar job prospects. However, this scenario is different then someone getting a full ride at Arizona State (ranked 38th) and paying full sticker at Columbia. The job prospects make a huge difference in the value of that scholarship.


Yale is a great school. But so is the University of Illinois with a full-ride.

Where do you think Baker Botts - Houston office or Dallas-office recruits their lawyers? Answer: UT-Austin, SMU, and Houston.

Where do you think government institutions and law firms in Phoenix go when they need lawyers? Answer: Arizona State, Arizona....

Where do the DA's in Dallas or the IRS Dallas office recruit attorneys? Answer: SMU.

University of Illinois and Notre Dame are not T14, but in Chicago their graduates do well in terms of placement.

Are the Yale graduates with a 2.5 gpa going to get the interview at Baker Botts over the Southern Methodist University graduate with a 3.8 gpa?[/quote]

I'd rather be a Yale graduate with a 2.5 GPA than a Southern Methodist grad with a 3.8.

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beachbum
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby beachbum » Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:03 pm

sparty99 wrote:Yale is a great school. But so is the University of Illinois with a full-ride.

Where do you think Baker Botts - Houston office or Dallas-office recruits their lawyers? Answer: UT-Austin, SMU, and Houston.

Where do you think government institutions and law firms in Phoenix go when they need lawyers? Answer: Arizona State, Arizona....

Where do the DA's in Dallas or the IRS Dallas office recruit attorneys? Answer: SMU.

University of Illinois and Notre Dame are not T14, but in Chicago their graduates do well in terms of placement.

Are the Yale graduates with a 2.5 gpa going to get the interview at Baker Botts over the Southern Methodist University graduate with a 3.8 gpa?


WTF are you going on about.

Here is Arizona State: --LinkRemoved--

Here is SMU: --LinkRemoved--

Here is Yale: --LinkRemoved--

One of these schools is objectively much, much better than the other two. And this data is for Class of 2008, before the crash. While top-ranked schools certainly took a big hit in the recession, many lower-ranked schools were absolutely destroyed.

Also, LOL at ND and Illinois placing well in Chicago ITE. And I'm still waiting to hear about your school and your OCI success.

FiveSermon
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby FiveSermon » Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:06 pm

beachbum wrote:
sparty99 wrote:Yale is a great school. But so is the University of Illinois with a full-ride.

Where do you think Baker Botts - Houston office or Dallas-office recruits their lawyers? Answer: UT-Austin, SMU, and Houston.

Where do you think government institutions and law firms in Phoenix go when they need lawyers? Answer: Arizona State, Arizona....

Where do the DA's in Dallas or the IRS Dallas office recruit attorneys? Answer: SMU.

University of Illinois and Notre Dame are not T14, but in Chicago their graduates do well in terms of placement.

Are the Yale graduates with a 2.5 gpa going to get the interview at Baker Botts over the Southern Methodist University graduate with a 3.8 gpa?


WTF are you going on about.

Here is Arizona State: --LinkRemoved--

Here is SMU: --LinkRemoved--

Here is Yale: --LinkRemoved--

One of these schools is objectively much, much better than the other two. And this data is for Class of 2008, before the crash. While top-ranked schools certainly took a big hit in the recession, many lower-ranked schools were absolutely destroyed.

Also, LOL at ND and Illinois placing well in Chicago ITE. And I'm still waiting to hear about your school and your OCI success.


viewtopic.php?f=9&t=140660&p=3717324#p3717324

He started a thread asking for advice for 3.6/140-145 LSAT applicant. I'm guessing he will be enjoying one of these TTT soon unless he retakes.

xyzbca
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby xyzbca » Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:07 pm

powerlawyer06 wrote:You realize you are in the minority as far as job prospects and class rank. What about the other 95% of the people who chose your school? How are their job prospects? I doubt they are all debt free.


Again, you need to stop with the assumptions. dakatz already pointed out that you incorrectly see this as a choice between T6 and T3. My school was in the T30 on the recent NLJ250 list. Not great, but certainly respectable job prospects ITE. A lot of people come to my school with nice scholarships. While it is inevitably true that some people will graduate with poor job prospects and lots of debt, many others are graduating with poor job prospects and little to no debt. I submit that those in the latter category were the prudent ones.

powerlawyer06 wrote:Do you think you would have made these decisions if you were only considering the worst case scenario? Did you consider getting divorced or having your significant other cheat on you as you made the decision to get married? I hope not, that would be crazy. You probably went into marriage with the best of intentions expecting that it would be hard but knowing that you were going to make it work no matter what.


You're missing the point. My point is not about the worst case scenario in absolute terms but the worst case scenario after you've done everything you can to minimize the probability of the worst case scenario. Taking a full scholarship at Cornell essentially eliminates the worst case scenario. Do you see that? Do you disagree? Do you see that in choosing sticker at the highest ranked school you mitigate the worst case scenario while in choosing the full scholarship you eliminate the worst case scenario? You tell me which is choosing to do everything in your power to minimize the probability of the worst case scenario?

powerlawyer06 wrote:However, I don't think that you have no control either. I believe the people that do the best definitely don't come in with the attitude that they aren't going to try because they have no control anyway.


For the sake of your LS grades, I encourage you to get away from the either or dichotomies. I never suggested or implied one should take a sh!tty attitude towards LS performance. I only pointed out your clearly erroneous statement that one has 100% control over their LS outcome.

powerlawyer06 wrote:In this scenario you are comparing two T14s both with great job prospects. I say you should go to the one where you think you will be happiest and will perform the best. Cornell might be a better choice because you will come out with less debt and similiar job prospects. However, this scenario is different then someone getting a full ride at Arizona State (ranked 38th) and paying full sticker at Columbia. The job prospects make a huge difference in the value of that scholarship.


We're using two different criteria now. We went from discussing the worst case scenario ($200k debt and no job/low paying job) to emphasizing job prospects in evaluating the scholarship. Those are two fundamentally different criteria under which to evaluate the choice. I'm even inclined to agree with your new criteria. Do you agree that in your hypothetical the worst case scenario out of ASU is better than the worst case scenario out of Columbia? Finally, I'll reiterate what I said in my first post: If you can live with losing the bet [after you've done everything in your power to minimize the risk of that scenario occuring], then by all means make the damn bet.

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beachbum
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby beachbum » Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:09 pm

FiveSermon wrote:
beachbum wrote:
sparty99 wrote:Yale is a great school. But so is the University of Illinois with a full-ride.

Where do you think Baker Botts - Houston office or Dallas-office recruits their lawyers? Answer: UT-Austin, SMU, and Houston.

Where do you think government institutions and law firms in Phoenix go when they need lawyers? Answer: Arizona State, Arizona....

Where do the DA's in Dallas or the IRS Dallas office recruit attorneys? Answer: SMU.

University of Illinois and Notre Dame are not T14, but in Chicago their graduates do well in terms of placement.

Are the Yale graduates with a 2.5 gpa going to get the interview at Baker Botts over the Southern Methodist University graduate with a 3.8 gpa?


WTF are you going on about.

Here is Arizona State: --LinkRemoved--

Here is SMU: --LinkRemoved--

Here is Yale: --LinkRemoved--

One of these schools is objectively much, much better than the other two. And this data is for Class of 2008, before the crash. While top-ranked schools certainly took a big hit in the recession, many lower-ranked schools were absolutely destroyed.

Also, LOL at ND and Illinois placing well in Chicago ITE. And I'm still waiting to hear about your school and your OCI success.


viewtopic.php?f=9&t=140660&p=3717324#p3717324

He started a thread asking for advice for 3.6/140-145 LSAT applicant. I'm guessing he will be enjoying one of these TTT soon unless he retakes.


Right, so he's trying to rationalize his own underwhelming performance and shitty choices. Super.

FiveSermon
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby FiveSermon » Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:11 pm

beachbum wrote:
FiveSermon wrote:
beachbum wrote:
sparty99 wrote:Yale is a great school. But so is the University of Illinois with a full-ride.

Where do you think Baker Botts - Houston office or Dallas-office recruits their lawyers? Answer: UT-Austin, SMU, and Houston.

Where do you think government institutions and law firms in Phoenix go when they need lawyers? Answer: Arizona State, Arizona....

Where do the DA's in Dallas or the IRS Dallas office recruit attorneys? Answer: SMU.

University of Illinois and Notre Dame are not T14, but in Chicago their graduates do well in terms of placement.

Are the Yale graduates with a 2.5 gpa going to get the interview at Baker Botts over the Southern Methodist University graduate with a 3.8 gpa?


WTF are you going on about.

Here is Arizona State: --LinkRemoved--

Here is SMU: --LinkRemoved--

Here is Yale: --LinkRemoved--

One of these schools is objectively much, much better than the other two. And this data is for Class of 2008, before the crash. While top-ranked schools certainly took a big hit in the recession, many lower-ranked schools were absolutely destroyed.

Also, LOL at ND and Illinois placing well in Chicago ITE. And I'm still waiting to hear about your school and your OCI success.


viewtopic.php?f=9&t=140660&p=3717324#p3717324

He started a thread asking for advice for 3.6/140-145 LSAT applicant. I'm guessing he will be enjoying one of these TTT soon unless he retakes.


Right, so he's trying to rationalize his own underwhelming performance and shitty choices. Super.


Thing is it doesn't even apply to him. He won't get $$$ at TTT's.

sparty99
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby sparty99 » Sun Feb 27, 2011 6:16 pm

beachbum wrote:
sparty99 wrote:Yale is a great school. But so is the University of Illinois with a full-ride.

Where do you think Baker Botts - Houston office or Dallas-office recruits their lawyers? Answer: UT-Austin, SMU, and Houston.

Where do you think government institutions and law firms in Phoenix go when they need lawyers? Answer: Arizona State, Arizona....

Where do the DA's in Dallas or the IRS Dallas office recruit attorneys? Answer: SMU.

University of Illinois and Notre Dame are not T14, but in Chicago their graduates do well in terms of placement.

Are the Yale graduates with a 2.5 gpa going to get the interview at Baker Botts over the Southern Methodist University graduate with a 3.8 gpa?


WTF are you going on about.

Here is Arizona State: --LinkRemoved--

Here is SMU: --LinkRemoved--

Here is Yale: --LinkRemoved--

One of these schools is objectively much, much better than the other two. And this data is for Class of 2008, before the crash. While top-ranked schools certainly took a big hit in the recession, many lower-ranked schools were absolutely destroyed.

Also, LOL at ND and Illinois placing well in Chicago ITE. And I'm still waiting to hear about your school and your OCI success.


My point is that if you want the $160k job, you're going to have to be in the top of your class regardless of whether you are at SMU or Yale. Perhaps some Yale grads will get a job through a connection, etc, but for OCI, your gpa and exctracruicular/internships will be the most important aspects. Moreover, those $130-160k jobs are open to graduates at Arizona, Illinois, Notre Dame - just as they are to Yale.

The OP is considering sticker at Columbia versus 85% at Texas. I'm sure more Yale graduates go into big law, but Texas graduates place in Big Law. Wouldn't you rather graduate debt free with a big law job versus Columbia/$200k in debt?

Personally, I'd rather live in Austin and be an ambulance chaser/DUI Defense attorney making my own six figures than working for Latham & Watkins at 80 hours a week doing document review.

FiveSermon
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby FiveSermon » Sun Feb 27, 2011 6:19 pm

sparty99 wrote:
beachbum wrote:
sparty99 wrote:Yale is a great school. But so is the University of Illinois with a full-ride.

Where do you think Baker Botts - Houston office or Dallas-office recruits their lawyers? Answer: UT-Austin, SMU, and Houston.

Where do you think government institutions and law firms in Phoenix go when they need lawyers? Answer: Arizona State, Arizona....

Where do the DA's in Dallas or the IRS Dallas office recruit attorneys? Answer: SMU.

University of Illinois and Notre Dame are not T14, but in Chicago their graduates do well in terms of placement.

Are the Yale graduates with a 2.5 gpa going to get the interview at Baker Botts over the Southern Methodist University graduate with a 3.8 gpa?


WTF are you going on about.

Here is Arizona State: --LinkRemoved--

Here is SMU: --LinkRemoved--

Here is Yale: --LinkRemoved--

One of these schools is objectively much, much better than the other two. And this data is for Class of 2008, before the crash. While top-ranked schools certainly took a big hit in the recession, many lower-ranked schools were absolutely destroyed.

Also, LOL at ND and Illinois placing well in Chicago ITE. And I'm still waiting to hear about your school and your OCI success.


My point is that if you want the $160k job, you're going to have to be in the top of your class regardless of whether you are at SMU or Yale. Perhaps some Yale grads will get a job through a connection, etc, but for OCI, your gpa and exctracruicular/internships will be the most important aspects. Moreover, those $130-160k jobs are open to graduates at Arizona, Illinois, Notre Dame - just as they are to Yale.

The OP is considering sticker at Columbia versus 85% at Texas. I'm sure more Yale graduates go into big law, but Texas graduates place in Big Law. Wouldn't you rather graduate debt free with a big law job versus Columbia/$200k in debt?

Personally, I'd rather live in Austin and be an ambulance chaser/DUI Defense attorney making my own six figures than working for Latham & Watkins at 80 hours a week doing document review.


You don't have to be top of your class to get biglaw at Yale. Are you dumb?

sarahlawg
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby sarahlawg » Sun Feb 27, 2011 6:21 pm

sparty99 wrote:
My point is that if you want the $160k job, you're going to have to be in the top of your class regardless of whether you are at SMU or Yale. Perhaps some Yale grads will get a job through a connection, etc, but for OCI, your gpa and exctracruicular/internships will be the most important aspects. Moreover, those $130-160k jobs are open to graduates at Arizona, Illinois, Notre Dame - just as they are to Yale.

The OP is considering sticker at Columbia versus 85% at Texas. I'm sure more Yale graduates go into big law, but Texas graduates place in Big Law. Wouldn't you rather graduate debt free with a big law job versus Columbia/$200k in debt?

Personally, I'd rather live in Austin and be an ambulance chaser/DUI Defense attorney making my own six figures than working for Latham & Watkins at 80 hours a week doing document review.


You realize they don't even have grades at Yale, yes? Because it doesn't matter how 'well' you do...you went to Yale. Yale should not even be in a conversation about Biglaw like this. That's not what most Yale kids go to Yale for.

edit: oh and the 'connection' Yale kids have of which you speak is the fact that they went to Yale.

TheStrand
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby TheStrand » Sun Feb 27, 2011 6:36 pm

sarahlawg wrote:edit: oh and the 'connection' Yale kids have of which you speak is the fact that they went to Yale.

Lol. Why are you still here Sparty? You bring nothing to this discussion but lols. You made your Dave Ramsey plugs here already, aren't there other threads and forums you can troll?

sparty99
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby sparty99 » Sun Feb 27, 2011 6:38 pm

This doesn't apply to me because 1) I did not apply to any "Tier III" programs...

sparty99
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby sparty99 » Sun Feb 27, 2011 6:41 pm

sarahlawg wrote:
sparty99 wrote:
My point is that if you want the $160k job, you're going to have to be in the top of your class regardless of whether you are at SMU or Yale. Perhaps some Yale grads will get a job through a connection, etc, but for OCI, your gpa and exctracruicular/internships will be the most important aspects. Moreover, those $130-160k jobs are open to graduates at Arizona, Illinois, Notre Dame - just as they are to Yale.

The OP is considering sticker at Columbia versus 85% at Texas. I'm sure more Yale graduates go into big law, but Texas graduates place in Big Law. Wouldn't you rather graduate debt free with a big law job versus Columbia/$200k in debt?

Personally, I'd rather live in Austin and be an ambulance chaser/DUI Defense attorney making my own six figures than working for Latham & Watkins at 80 hours a week doing document review.


You realize they don't even have grades at Yale, yes? Because it doesn't matter how 'well' you do...you went to Yale. Yale should not even be in a conversation about Biglaw like this. That's not what most Yale kids go to Yale for.

edit: oh and the 'connection' Yale kids have of which you speak is the fact that they went to Yale.


I used Yale as a generality. It could easily read: Michigan, Columbia (200k debt) versus Wash U (full ride). Ok. Thanks.

TheFactor
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby TheFactor » Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:10 pm

sparty99 wrote:Personally, I'd rather live in Austin and be an ambulance chaser/DUI Defense attorney making my own six figures than working for Latham & Watkins at 80 hours a week doing document review.

lol wut?

sullidop
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby sullidop » Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:18 pm

TheFactor wrote:
sparty99 wrote:Personally, I'd rather live in Austin and be an ambulance chaser/DUI Defense attorney making my own six figures than working for Latham & Watkins at 80 hours a week doing document review.

lol wut?


As long as we're assuming we could achieve random things (i.e. making 100k+ hanging a shingle directly out of school), I'd rather win the lottery than have to work 60+ hours a week.

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MTal
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby MTal » Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:25 pm

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1944515

"Because it's not unemployment if you pay tuition!"




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