WSJ Article - Class Rank v. School Rank

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AP-375
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WSJ Article - Class Rank v. School Rank

Postby AP-375 » Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:15 pm

This is a little bit dated, but has this article been discussed here?
http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2010/07/30/new-study-forget-the-rankings-just-bring-home-straight-as/
It takes a pretty strong side on several regular TLS arguments, namely, that class rank matters more than school eliteness.

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jwrash
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Re: WSJ Article - Class Rank v. School Rank

Postby jwrash » Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:27 pm


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bk1
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Re: WSJ Article - Class Rank v. School Rank

Postby bk1 » Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:36 pm

TLS doesn't argue that grades trump prestige. TLS argues that because grades are an unknown and you can't even come close to guaranteeing yourself that you'll do better at a worse school that you should decide schools on either school prestige or scholarship money.

emmbar53
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Re: WSJ Article - Class Rank v. School Rank

Postby emmbar53 » Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:40 pm

AP-375 wrote:This is a little bit dated, but has this article been discussed here?
http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2010/07/30/new-study-forget-the-rankings-just-bring-home-straight-as/
It takes a pretty strong side on several regular TLS arguments, namely, that class rank matters more than school eliteness.


Been discussed quite a lot.

Standard response is that the assumption that one's GPA would go up if he/she attended a lower ranked school and down if he/she attended a higher ranked school is simply unfounded.

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arvcondor
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Re: WSJ Article - Class Rank v. School Rank

Postby arvcondor » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:15 pm

jwrash wrote:http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202443758843

This suggests otherwise.

Do you know what year that data was published? I see similar lists differently organized all the time.

HeavenWood
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Re: WSJ Article - Class Rank v. School Rank

Postby HeavenWood » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:17 pm

bk1 wrote:TLS doesn't argue that grades trump prestige. TLS argues that because grades are an unknown and you can't even come close to guaranteeing yourself that you'll do better at a worse school that you should decide schools on either school prestige or scholarship money.

d34d9823
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Re: WSJ Article - Class Rank v. School Rank

Postby d34d9823 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:17 pm

bk1 wrote:TLS doesn't argue that grades trump prestige. TLS argues that because grades are an unknown and you can't even come close to guaranteeing yourself that you'll do better at a worse school that you should decide schools on either school prestige or scholarship money.

Seriously. Lrn2statistics, guys.

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pjo
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Re: WSJ Article - Class Rank v. School Rank

Postby pjo » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:20 pm

arvcondor wrote:
jwrash wrote:http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202443758843

This suggests otherwise.

Do you know what year that data was published? I see similar lists differently organized all the time.


That's the list for last year's class. The new one comes out either at the end of this month or next month. Most ppl believe the percentages will have increased this year, especially for the schools already at the top.

Bumi
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Re: WSJ Article - Class Rank v. School Rank

Postby Bumi » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:24 pm

d34dluk3 wrote:
bk1 wrote:TLS doesn't argue that grades trump prestige. TLS argues that because grades are an unknown and you can't even come close to guaranteeing yourself that you'll do better at a worse school that you should decide schools on either school prestige or scholarship money.

Seriously. Lrn2statistics, guys.

What is unstatistical about making your school decision by expecting you are most likely to be close to median, rather than hoping you'll be top 10%?

09042014
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Re: WSJ Article - Class Rank v. School Rank

Postby 09042014 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:28 pm

I wouldn't be surprised if this were true for non t14. But there is just a huge drop off from t14 to non t14 that I can't believe it holds.

It also appears to not take into account GPA curves being much higher at T14.

d34d9823
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Re: WSJ Article - Class Rank v. School Rank

Postby d34d9823 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:32 pm

Desert Fox wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if this were true for non t14. But there is just a huge drop off from t14 to non t14 that I can't believe it holds.

It also appears to not take into account GPA curves being much higher at T14.

Yeah, the study is suspect. But it agrees with everything else we see about grades being crucial (e.g. top 5% at Gtttown getting V5 when bottom half at Harvard can't).

HeavenWood
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Re: WSJ Article - Class Rank v. School Rank

Postby HeavenWood » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:36 pm

d34dluk3 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if this were true for non t14. But there is just a huge drop off from t14 to non t14 that I can't believe it holds.

It also appears to not take into account GPA curves being much higher at T14.

Yeah, the study is suspect. But it agrees with everything else we see about grades being crucial (e.g. top 5% at Gtttown getting V5 when bottom half at Harvard can't).


People really hate Georgetown here.

d34d9823
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Re: WSJ Article - Class Rank v. School Rank

Postby d34d9823 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:37 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
d34dluk3 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if this were true for non t14. But there is just a huge drop off from t14 to non t14 that I can't believe it holds.

It also appears to not take into account GPA curves being much higher at T14.

Yeah, the study is suspect. But it agrees with everything else we see about grades being crucial (e.g. top 5% at Gtttown getting V5 when bottom half at Harvard can't).


People really hate Georgetown here.

Not really. But no one at Gtown could get into Harvard. So how does it make sense that they can get any job opportunities that are better?

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dr123
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Re: WSJ Article - Class Rank v. School Rank

Postby dr123 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:37 pm

jwrash wrote:http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202443758843

This suggests otherwise.


that doesn't suggest otherwise at all, that just shows that a higher percentage of students from top schools go to top firms. It doesn't suggest that you'll have better job opps graduating at median at harvard than graduating top 10% at uiuc

HeavenWood
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Re: WSJ Article - Class Rank v. School Rank

Postby HeavenWood » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:39 pm

d34dluk3 wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
d34dluk3 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if this were true for non t14. But there is just a huge drop off from t14 to non t14 that I can't believe it holds.

It also appears to not take into account GPA curves being much higher at T14.

Yeah, the study is suspect. But it agrees with everything else we see about grades being crucial (e.g. top 5% at Gtttown getting V5 when bottom half at Harvard can't).


People really hate Georgetown here.

Not really. But no one at Gtown could get into Harvard. So how does it make sense that they can get any job opportunities that are better?


I wasn't disputing the difference in opportunities. I'm just entertained by the term GTTTown.

Carry on.

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Grizz
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Re: WSJ Article - Class Rank v. School Rank

Postby Grizz » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:41 pm

pjo wrote:
arvcondor wrote:
jwrash wrote:http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202443758843

This suggests otherwise.

Do you know what year that data was published? I see similar lists differently organized all the time.


That's the list for last year's class. The new one comes out either at the end of this month or next month. Most ppl believe the percentages will have increased this year, especially for the schools already at the top.


Sorry bro, they will decrease. 2009 grads did OCI pre-crash in 2007.

d34d9823
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Re: WSJ Article - Class Rank v. School Rank

Postby d34d9823 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:41 pm

HeavenWood wrote:I wasn't disputing the difference in opportunities. I'm just entertained by the term GTTTown.

Carry on.

This is all you need to know: http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/law%20sc ... page12.pdf

Cornell lucks out because there is no T in Cornell.

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jwrash
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Re: WSJ Article - Class Rank v. School Rank

Postby jwrash » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:53 pm

dr123 wrote:
jwrash wrote:http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202443758843

This suggests otherwise.


that doesn't suggest otherwise at all, that just shows that a higher percentage of students from top schools go to top firms. It doesn't suggest that you'll have better job opps graduating at median at harvard than graduating top 10% at uiuc

You're right about median at Harvard vs. top 10% at uiuc, but it does show that a median student at Harvard, for example, will have better employment prospects than top 10% at many other schools.

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drylo
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Re: WSJ Article - Class Rank v. School Rank

Postby drylo » Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:01 am

d34dluk3 wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
d34dluk3 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if this were true for non t14. But there is just a huge drop off from t14 to non t14 that I can't believe it holds.

It also appears to not take into account GPA curves being much higher at T14.

Yeah, the study is suspect. But it agrees with everything else we see about grades being crucial (e.g. top 5% at Gtttown getting V5 when bottom half at Harvard can't).


People really hate Georgetown here.

Not really. But no one at Gtown could get into Harvard. So how does it make sense that they can get any job opportunities that are better?


Ignorant.




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