T14 with no scholarships or Tier 1 w/ partial

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Zach0901
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T14 with no scholarships or Tier 1 w/ partial

Postby Zach0901 » Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:46 pm

I didnt see a thread like this so I thought it would be a great one to post:

Im currently a junior in undergrad and its looking like I will be an extreme splitter. I will likely apply to law school with around a 3.2 GPA and a 170-173 LSAT score. This being said Im obviously one of those applicants that is borderline at getting into the lower half of the t14 schools but I feel like I will be pretty successful at gaining admittance into tier 1 schools with partial scholarships. That being said I have ambitions to go into BigLaw or entertainment law. Ive already had intern experience with two large firms (Squires SD and Thompson Hine) and it looks like I will be securing an internship at Jones Day this upcoming summer. All of this being said would it be worth it to go to a school like Cornell, Duke, Georgetown, etc. and pay full tuition over going to a lower ranked school UNC, OSU, BC, etc. with partial scholarships. Im just wondering how big the earnings potential differentiates and how much it is worth long term to make it in to those top 14 schools over the other tier 1 schools. Any insight from alumni from top schools would be extremely helpful in weighing these kinds of decisions. Thanks

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Cavalier
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Re: T14 with no scholarships or Tier 1 w/ partial

Postby Cavalier » Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:52 pm

T14

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beachbum
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Re: T14 with no scholarships or Tier 1 w/ partial

Postby beachbum » Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:53 pm

The scholarships you receive are likely not going to be enough to justify a lower-ranked school over a T14. Most schools just aren't going to pay for a 3.2; you'd be wise to instead shoot for the best school possible. Depending on where you hit on the LSAT (assuming within the given range, which is a big assumption), MVPCG could all be in play.

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bk1
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Re: T14 with no scholarships or Tier 1 w/ partial

Postby bk1 » Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:56 pm

(0L here)

If you want biglaw the obvious answer is the best school you can get into.

Honestly I find partial scholarships to be rather meaningless considering it's still a crapton of debt. i.e. GW offered me a $30k/year scholarship with $15k for first year housing. Due to their $210k total CoA, that $105k scholarship still would leave me with 6 figures worth of debt. This is fairly similar to other schools in big cities. It is different at state schools with cheaper CoA such as UNC, especially for in-staters, but for the top non-T20's for biglaw, they pretty much all cost this much (BC/BU/Fordham/GW/WUSTL/etc). Heck, even if a UNC out-of-stater got a 2/3 tuition scholarship ($20k/year), they'd still end up in $90k worth of debt. To me this makes it really easy to say T14 >> T1 with small scholly considering the debt at a T1 with a small scholly is still huge (over six figures most of the time).

I think the real question of risk here is sticker at a low T14 versus full ride + stipend at a decent T2.

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bk1
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Re: T14 with no scholarships or Tier 1 w/ partial

Postby bk1 » Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:58 pm

beachbum wrote:The scholarships you receive are likely not going to be enough to justify a lower-ranked school over a T14. Most schools just aren't going to pay for a 3.2; you'd be wise to instead shoot for the best school possible. Depending on where you hit on the LSAT (assuming within the given range, which is a big assumption), MVPCG could all be in play.



While a 3.2 does kill a lot of scholly potential, many schools will still try to fight for that 170+ LSAT.

kehoema2
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Re: T14 with no scholarships or Tier 1 w/ partial

Postby kehoema2 » Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:03 pm

bk1 wrote:I think the real question of risk here is sticker at a low T14 versus full ride + stipend at a decent T2.


I'd love to hear some opinions on this. I got full out of state tuition at Indiana (plus their stipulation is "good academic progress" or something alike which is pretty nice). I'm still waiting to hear back from some T-14s but I will be likely mulling this over.

Edit: Sorry to jack your forum, but at least this is marginally related to your question.
Last edited by kehoema2 on Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

concurrent fork
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Re: T14 with no scholarships or Tier 1 w/ partial

Postby concurrent fork » Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:04 pm

Get your LSAT score first. You may not have the luxury of making this decision.

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beachbum
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Re: T14 with no scholarships or Tier 1 w/ partial

Postby beachbum » Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:07 pm

bk1 wrote:
beachbum wrote:The scholarships you receive are likely not going to be enough to justify a lower-ranked school over a T14. Most schools just aren't going to pay for a 3.2; you'd be wise to instead shoot for the best school possible. Depending on where you hit on the LSAT (assuming within the given range, which is a big assumption), MVPCG could all be in play.



While a 3.2 does kill a lot of scholly potential, many schools will still try to fight for that 170+ LSAT.


eh, I can only see huge scholarships from Minnesota and Illinois. WUSTL will throw in something decent, but nothing incredible ($10-15k/year). And I don't think any of these are better choices than T14s, particularly if OP is looking towards Biglaw.

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bk1
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Re: T14 with no scholarships or Tier 1 w/ partial

Postby bk1 » Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:12 pm

kehoema2 wrote:
bk1 wrote:I think the real question of risk here is sticker at a low T14 versus full ride + stipend at a decent T2.


I'd love to hear some opinions on this. I got full out of state tuition at Indiana (plus their stipulation is "good academic progress" or something alike which is pretty nice). I'm still waiting to hear back from some T-14s but I will be likely mulling this over.


Generally I'd say it depends on a variety of factors such as how risk averse one is, how much one wants to work there, location of the full ride school, and the like.

Risk-wise I'd definitely say take the full ride of GULC/Cornell. With MVPBND it gets a bit murkier and I'd say this is more of a preference. If you really want to work in the area of the full ride school it makes it even easier to choose the full ride. If the full ride is in a crowded market (schools like American, Brooklyn, Cardozo, etc) it makes it easier to lean towards the T14.

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vamedic03
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Re: T14 with no scholarships or Tier 1 w/ partial

Postby vamedic03 » Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:42 pm

Cavalier wrote:T14


^this. It's all about how much risk you're willing to accept and the type of risk you're willing to accept. I'm a 2L who was a big splitter (3.0 GPA, 172 LSAT) and I'm very happen with my choice of UVA at full sticker.

09042014
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Re: T14 with no scholarships or Tier 1 w/ partial

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:52 pm

Best you'll do is UIUC with 90K. That still leaks 90K of debt because COA is 180K.

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romothesavior
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Re: T14 with no scholarships or Tier 1 w/ partial

Postby romothesavior » Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:33 pm

Almost certainly T14, unless you can get a full ride.

mikey101
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Re: T14 with no scholarships or Tier 1 w/ partial

Postby mikey101 » Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:50 pm

I'm in a similar predicament now... don't have any decisions yet (applied early december, a bit late but it is what it is) but I'm 3.84 / 167 and are grappling with the possibility of the scenario you laid out happening for me.

Right now I'm still jumping back and forth between whether or not to switch to ED at either UVA or Duke but can't convince myself that locking myself into sticker (which i surely would be if I got accepted ED) is worth it. Also, I want to practice in Boston (80% certainty) so if I were to land good money from BU or BC I'd be tempted.

Also with regard to ED, I'd hate to throw away the slim chances of getting into Berkeley or Michigan both of which I probably would attend at sticker over Duke. It's a tough call especially since I'm on the fence about whether I even want big law. Sorry to jack your thread a bit.

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beachbum
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Re: T14 with no scholarships or Tier 1 w/ partial

Postby beachbum » Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:33 am

mikey101 wrote:I'm in a similar predicament now... don't have any decisions yet (applied early december, a bit late but it is what it is) but I'm 3.84 / 167 and are grappling with the possibility of the scenario you laid out happening for me.

Right now I'm still jumping back and forth between whether or not to switch to ED at either UVA or Duke but can't convince myself that locking myself into sticker (which i surely would be if I got accepted ED) is worth it. Also, I want to practice in Boston (80% certainty) so if I were to land good money from BU or BC I'd be tempted.

Also with regard to ED, I'd hate to throw away the slim chances of getting into Berkeley or Michigan both of which I probably would attend at sticker over Duke. It's a tough call especially since I'm on the fence about whether I even want big law. Sorry to jack your thread a bit.


Not to be a dick, but worry about getting into the T14 before worrying about choosing a T14 over a large scholarship. That LSAT is gonna make it tough to crack the top schools.

mikey101
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Re: T14 with no scholarships or Tier 1 w/ partial

Postby mikey101 » Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:02 am

beachbum wrote:Not to be a dick, but worry about getting into the T14 before worrying about choosing a T14 over a large scholarship. That LSAT is gonna make it tough to crack the top schools.


Point taken and I wasn't trying to get ahead of myself in that sense, do you think it's worth increasing my chances (however slightly) by EDing to get into a T14 instead of seeing how the chips fall and forgoing the potential scholly at T15 - 30?

Also, if neither of those scenarios pan out (T14 acceptance or decent money at a lower T1) I am willing to wait a year and retake.

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beachbum
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Re: T14 with no scholarships or Tier 1 w/ partial

Postby beachbum » Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:15 am

mikey101 wrote:
beachbum wrote:Not to be a dick, but worry about getting into the T14 before worrying about choosing a T14 over a large scholarship. That LSAT is gonna make it tough to crack the top schools.


Point taken and I wasn't trying to get ahead of myself in that sense, do you think it's worth increasing my chances (however slightly) by EDing to get into a T14 instead of seeing how the chips fall and forgoing the potential scholly at T15 - 30?

Also, if neither of those scenarios pan out (T14 acceptance or decent money at a lower T1) I am willing to wait a year and retake.


Well, your remaining T14 ED options are Duke, GULC, and UVA. The last two aren't happening, though Duke might still be worth a shot. Cornell and Michigan (RD) could happen depending on the strength of your application. Vandy could throw some money your way, though- which I think might be your best option.

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Law Sauce
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Re: T14 with no scholarships or Tier 1 w/ partial

Postby Law Sauce » Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:24 am

No way, you can get a t14 still in fact i think you will, (especially if your GPA is from a good undergrad) ed would make it more certain of course, but visit first. If you def want t14 then ed, no brainer. if money is a bigger factor wait and see what happens, gulc or cornel, could realistically still be a option at the end of it. If you applied early, you will have a better shot of course.

mikey101
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Re: T14 with no scholarships or Tier 1 w/ partial

Postby mikey101 » Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:57 pm

Law Sauce wrote:No way, you can get a t14 still in fact i think you will, (especially if your GPA is from a good undergrad) ed would make it more certain of course, but visit first. If you def want t14 then ed, no brainer. if money is a bigger factor wait and see what happens, gulc or cornel, could realistically still be a option at the end of it. If you applied early, you will have a better shot of course.


Ughhh... I literally go back and forth on a daily basis of what to do. I would ED at Duke if I did ED and it is one of my top two or three schools. It's just I'm not sure I'd commit to GULC or Cornell at sticker and I'm leaning toward saying I would do so at Duke. With all that said. I'm not necessarily T14 or bust like some TLSers but I need a decent scholly from a BU/BC/GW or Vandy to make me consider them.

My undergraduate gpa is from Georgetown so it's not HYPS but solid and I did apply mid December so I definitely won't get any help from applying early. Just an all around tough call. My fear is that I don't pull the trigger on Duke ED and then end up looking at BU/BC/GW with no or very little $$. Sorry for the rant, thanks for the advice.

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bk1
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Re: T14 with no scholarships or Tier 1 w/ partial

Postby bk1 » Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:03 pm

mikey101 wrote:My fear is that I don't pull the trigger on Duke ED and then end up looking at BU/BC/GW with no or very little $$.


You're never stuck. Retake/reapply is always an option.

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Re: T14 with no scholarships or Tier 1 w/ partial

Postby T6Hopeful » Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:34 am

mikey101 wrote:
Law Sauce wrote:No way, you can get a t14 still in fact i think you will, (especially if your GPA is from a good undergrad) ed would make it more certain of course, but visit first. If you def want t14 then ed, no brainer. if money is a bigger factor wait and see what happens, gulc or cornel, could realistically still be a option at the end of it. If you applied early, you will have a better shot of course.


Ughhh... I literally go back and forth on a daily basis of what to do. I would ED at Duke if I did ED and it is one of my top two or three schools. It's just I'm not sure I'd commit to GULC or Cornell at sticker and I'm leaning toward saying I would do so at Duke. With all that said. I'm not necessarily T14 or bust like some TLSers but I need a decent scholly from a BU/BC/GW or Vandy to make me consider them.

My undergraduate gpa is from Georgetown so it's not HYPS but solid and I did apply mid December so I definitely won't get any help from applying early. Just an all around tough call. My fear is that I don't pull the trigger on Duke ED and then end up looking at BU/BC/GW with no or very little $$. Sorry for the rant, thanks for the advice.

Keep in mind though that that deadline is coming up. Tomorrow, in fact.

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Drake014
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Re: T14 with no scholarships or Tier 1 w/ partial

Postby Drake014 » Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:37 am

Zach0901 wrote:I didnt see a thread like this so I thought it would be a great one to post:

Im currently a junior in undergrad and its looking like I will be an extreme splitter. I will likely apply to law school with around a 3.2 GPA and a 170-173 LSAT score. This being said Im obviously one of those applicants that is borderline at getting into the lower half of the t14 schools but I feel like I will be pretty successful at gaining admittance into tier 1 schools with partial scholarships. That being said I have ambitions to go into BigLaw or entertainment law. Ive already had intern experience with two large firms (Squires SD and Thompson Hine) and it looks like I will be securing an internship at Jones Day this upcoming summer. All of this being said would it be worth it to go to a school like Cornell, Duke, Georgetown, etc. and pay full tuition over going to a lower ranked school UNC, OSU, BC, etc. with partial scholarships. Im just wondering how big the earnings potential differentiates and how much it is worth long term to make it in to those top 14 schools over the other tier 1 schools. Any insight from alumni from top schools would be extremely helpful in weighing these kinds of decisions. Thanks


Depends on your situation. If the T1 is in the market you plan to work in, take it.

I'm actually annoyed with everyone who says take the highest ranking school. I could be at Harvard or Yale and took Berkeley because it was a free ride and that's where my wife wanted. I have a 2L summer job at a major firm that I could really see myself at for years to come.

Yeah, Berkeley is still T14, but if it was teh different between T1 and full ride and T14 and sticker, I'd go full ride. How much of a partial are we talking about?

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bk1
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Re: T14 with no scholarships or Tier 1 w/ partial

Postby bk1 » Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:38 am

Drake014 wrote:I could be at Harvard or Yale and took Berkeley because it was a free ride and that's where my wife wanted. I have a 2L summer job at a major firm that I could really see myself at for years to come.


I don't think that anybody giving out advice every sincerely thinks that you should abandon your spouse/children/etc for law school and understands that sometimes you take a worse school due to family concerns and there is nothing wrong with that. The fact is that this applies only to a small minority of applicants and I think those applicants can figure for themselves what value to place on location according to their family situation. But for the rest of applicants it is pretty fair to make generalizations without regard to any sort of family situation.

Also, just because you managed to do well at Boalt (or any other school for that matter) doesn't mean it is the right choice. I can find biglaw partners from TTT's, it doesn't mean that people should make that same choice when presented with legitimately better options.

That being said, I think that H/Y versus Boalt for free is a pretty evenly weighted scenario.

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beachbum
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Re: T14 with no scholarships or Tier 1 w/ partial

Postby beachbum » Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:53 am

T6Hopeful wrote:
mikey101 wrote:
Law Sauce wrote:No way, you can get a t14 still in fact i think you will, (especially if your GPA is from a good undergrad) ed would make it more certain of course, but visit first. If you def want t14 then ed, no brainer. if money is a bigger factor wait and see what happens, gulc or cornel, could realistically still be a option at the end of it. If you applied early, you will have a better shot of course.


Ughhh... I literally go back and forth on a daily basis of what to do. I would ED at Duke if I did ED and it is one of my top two or three schools. It's just I'm not sure I'd commit to GULC or Cornell at sticker and I'm leaning toward saying I would do so at Duke. With all that said. I'm not necessarily T14 or bust like some TLSers but I need a decent scholly from a BU/BC/GW or Vandy to make me consider them.

My undergraduate gpa is from Georgetown so it's not HYPS but solid and I did apply mid December so I definitely won't get any help from applying early. Just an all around tough call. My fear is that I don't pull the trigger on Duke ED and then end up looking at BU/BC/GW with no or very little $$. Sorry for the rant, thanks for the advice.

Keep in mind though that that deadline is coming up. Tomorrow, in fact.


For Duke ED? He has until the 12th.

http://www.law.duke.edu/admis/apply/early

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T6Hopeful
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Re: T14 with no scholarships or Tier 1 w/ partial

Postby T6Hopeful » Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:09 pm

beachbum wrote:
T6Hopeful wrote:
mikey101 wrote:
Law Sauce wrote:No way, you can get a t14 still in fact i think you will, (especially if your GPA is from a good undergrad) ed would make it more certain of course, but visit first. If you def want t14 then ed, no brainer. if money is a bigger factor wait and see what happens, gulc or cornel, could realistically still be a option at the end of it. If you applied early, you will have a better shot of course.


Ughhh... I literally go back and forth on a daily basis of what to do. I would ED at Duke if I did ED and it is one of my top two or three schools. It's just I'm not sure I'd commit to GULC or Cornell at sticker and I'm leaning toward saying I would do so at Duke. With all that said. I'm not necessarily T14 or bust like some TLSers but I need a decent scholly from a BU/BC/GW or Vandy to make me consider them.

My undergraduate gpa is from Georgetown so it's not HYPS but solid and I did apply mid December so I definitely won't get any help from applying early. Just an all around tough call. My fear is that I don't pull the trigger on Duke ED and then end up looking at BU/BC/GW with no or very little $$. Sorry for the rant, thanks for the advice.

Keep in mind though that that deadline is coming up. Tomorrow, in fact.


For Duke ED? He has until the 12th.

http://www.law.duke.edu/admis/apply/early

Oops, my bad. Saw the Round 1 deposit deadline and thought that that was the Round 2 deadline. Sorry.

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Aeon
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Re: T14 with no scholarships or Tier 1 w/ partial

Postby Aeon » Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:18 pm

You're still a junior in college. Try to elevate your GPA as much as possible - you have enough time (I assume three semesters?) to do this. And of course do well on the LSAT.

As others have said, it's difficult to estimate your chances at schools because you don't yet have concrete numbers.




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