Harvard JD + Stanford MBA

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emptybee
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Harvard JD + Stanford MBA

Postby emptybee » Fri Dec 31, 2010 3:22 am

I've been admitted to HLS and am interested in pursuing a JD/MBA. However, for personal and professional reasons I think it would be ideal if I could do the MBA at Stanford.

I've found plenty of info on HLS/HBS, but can someone actually pursue the degrees at different schools? Will they hold my HLS status against me in admissions?

Thanks in advance!

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GeePee
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Re: Harvard JD + Stanford MBA

Postby GeePee » Fri Dec 31, 2010 3:27 am

emptybee wrote:I've been admitted to HLS and am interested in pursuing a JD/MBA. However, for personal and professional reasons I think it would be ideal if I could do the MBA at Stanford.

I've found plenty of info on HLS/HBS, but can someone actually pursue the degrees at different schools? Will they hold my HLS status against me in admissions?

Thanks in advance!

This makes absolutely no sense. Pick a school.

ran12
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Re: Harvard JD + Stanford MBA

Postby ran12 » Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:59 pm

You can pursue them separately if you wanna do 3 years law and 2 years MBA which ends up being a waste of a year, and an even bigger waste consideirng Northwestern and Columbia now have 3 year JD/MBA programs. It'll hurt your career prospects if you do law then business separately b/c it'll be tougher to get into biglaw. I would go to Harvard law for a year, then apply to Harvard business and do a 4 year joint degree. Havard MBA is gold all over the country.

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robotclubmember
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Re: Harvard JD + Stanford MBA

Postby robotclubmember » Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:51 pm

I'll venture to guess that, if he was able to get into Harvard Law, then he knows what he's doing and has a good reason, even though I can't possibly imagine what that good reason would be at the moment with such a limited amount of information.

More info would help. That aside, I'm sure you'll have the numbers to get into Stanford for an MBA, but, how is your work experience? By the time you matriculate into Stanford for the MBA you will have been out of the work force for three years. With the exception of internships, which I presume would be in corporate law, but even so, they may question why you need the MBA if you already have a doctorate. As I'm sure you know, any goon with the numbers can get into the right law school, but MBA programs generally want substantive work experience AND a compelling personal statement. People with five years WE in I-banking and numbers in the right ballpark get turned down if their reason for pursuing the degree is not compelling, and already going to law school and then jumping straight to an MBA -- at a different school, no less -- undermines the legitimacy of your need for the degree. It has been done with YLS/HBS, but I've never heard of combining Stanford and Harvard.

Here's the case of Lisa Schwartz, who graduated from Harvard College in 2003 and was apparently accepted into both HBS and Yale Law School and is going to attend both (!) and complete a JD/MBA. Of course, she was is one of the few people ever, perhaps only the 5th or 6th in history, to ever achieve a perfect undergrad GPA at Harvard.

Lisa B. Schwartz ’03 has managed to achieve what most students consider impossible.

Over her four years at Harvard, Schwartz did not receive a single grade lower than an A—not even an A-minus, giving her a perfect 15.0 grade point average on Harvard’s 15 point scale.

Schwartz, also a Crimson editor, will receive the Sophia Fruend prize today, an honor awarded each year to the highest ranked summa cum laude graduate in the College.

But unlike most recipients of the award, Schwartz has a perfect academic record. The last person to earn this distinction was Lisa’s older brother Kevin S. Schwartz ’01, who was the first undergraduate in nearly 20 years to achieve such perfection.

Schwartz said that while she was proud of her brother when he won the award, she never felt pressure to repeat his success.

“I knew it was most important that I make the most of my own experiences at Harvard, so I never made it a goal to set any records,” Schwartz said.

Schwartz, who is graduating with a bachelor’s degree in government, said she took a wide variety of classes and tried to challenge herself academically.

“I’ve loved my time at Harvard,” Schwartz said. “[i] feel that I’ve learned something from all aspects of my experience here, so it’s definitely is a nice honor.”

Fellow students, advisors and professors were not surprised to hear of Schwartz’s perfect record.

Loeb Professor of Germanic Languages and Literatures Maria M. Tatar predicted such a feat was within Schwartz’s reach during her freshman year when she took Tatar’s core class “Fairy Tales, Children’s Literature and the Culture of Childhood.”

“Lisa is a natural in the academic world, achieving the impossible with power, control, rigor and real style,” Tatar said.

In addition to winning the Fruend Prize, Schwartz is also a Truman Scholar and is a member of the USA Today College Academic First Team.

“Lisa is such a self-starter and so motivated,” said Andrea L. Campbell ’88, an assistant professor of government and Schwartz’s thesis advisor.

Schwartz wrote her senior thesis on the little-known U.S. Judicial Conference, which makes policy for the federal justice system. The Conference is composed of the Supreme Court’s chief justice and other top federal judges.

Campbell said that Schwartz’s thesis, which she called “extraordinary,” dealt with a topic that few have studied. “It could easily be published as a book,” Campbell said.

The thesis, entitled “Judging Policy: The U.S. Judicial Conference and the Politics of Judicial Involvement in Congressional Policy Making,” also won the James Gordon Bennett Prize for the outstanding Government thesis on a subject of American domestic or foreign policy—one of the top prizes awarded in the department.

Campbell predicted a bright future for Schwartz in public service.

“Well, she already worked in the House, the Senate, the United Nations and the Supreme Court,” Campbell said. “She’ll most likely be a major figure and have a prominent future in public policy in some way.”

Ronald C. Chen, a law tutor in Eliot House who worked closely with her on business and law school applications, praised Schwartz’s commitment to excellence in both her academic and extracurricular involvement.

“Writing recommendations for Lisa was always a perilous task,” Chen said. “One is not certain to succeed in conveying all that she has accomplished in her life thus far.”

Schwartz, who has worked in the office of Supreme Court Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist, has been president of the Harvard Mock Trial Team, on the Institute of Politics’ Student Advisory Committee and on the executive board of the Small Claims Advisory Service.

Schwartz will attend Harvard Business School in the fall, pursuing a JD-MBA degree with Yale Law School.



I guess the real answer is, I just don't know. There have been students that have done this, but these students are nothing short of prodigious. I don't know if you're just a work horse with the numbers to get anywhere or a true prodigy. MBA admissions are tricky and based on a lot of factors you've given no information about. So I don't see how anyone here can help you. Go to an MBA forum and volunteer more info maybe?

PS: No matter how small your penis is, you will never be able to make it bigger by doing a JD/MBA between Harvard/Stanford. ;)

dissonance1848
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Re: Harvard JD + Stanford MBA

Postby dissonance1848 » Sun Jan 02, 2011 1:02 pm

WTF? Havard MBA is worth more than Stanford MBA. Do Harvard JD/Harvard MBA. Hell, bail on the Havard JD, and only take the Harvard MBA.

/ thread.

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thecilent
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Re: Harvard JD + Stanford MBA

Postby thecilent » Sun Jan 02, 2011 1:09 pm

dissonance1848 wrote:WTF? Havard MBA is worth more than Stanford MBA. Do Harvard JD/Harvard MBA. Hell, bail on the Havard JD, and only take the Harvard MBA.

This is really tcr

bdubs
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Re: Harvard JD + Stanford MBA

Postby bdubs » Sun Jan 02, 2011 1:13 pm

If you understood at all how JD/MBAs work you would know that this is infeasible. In order to get both degrees in less than 5 years you need to cross-credit classes between the law school and the business school. Because you would not be attending the same institution for both degrees you cannot cross-credit classes.

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dextermorgan
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Re: Harvard JD + Stanford MBA

Postby dextermorgan » Sun Jan 02, 2011 1:13 pm

GeePee wrote:This makes absolutely no sense. Pick a school.

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robotclubmember
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Re: Harvard JD + Stanford MBA

Postby robotclubmember » Sun Jan 02, 2011 1:51 pm

bdubs wrote:If you understood at all how JD/MBAs work you would know that this is infeasible. In order to get both degrees in less than 5 years you need to cross-credit classes between the law school and the business school. Because you would not be attending the same institution for both degrees you cannot cross-credit classes.


It's been done before.

Like I said, we have to assume that OP knows what he is doing. He got into HLS, so it's fair to presume a certain level of competence and to presume he has a valid reason for wanting to do this, even if he hasn't stated so. That said, it happens extremely rarely, and appears to be unlikely in his case (though tough to say with limited info).

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Shaggier1
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Re: Harvard JD + Stanford MBA

Postby Shaggier1 » Sun Jan 02, 2011 8:41 pm

This makes absolutely no sense.


Dismissive statements such as this decrease the value of TLS.

It does make sense if:

1) OP seeks diverse educational experiences/networks

2) OP has an interest in establishing West Coast ties

3) OP wants to work/research with some specific professor at S and another at H

4) One of a long list of other plausible reasons for considering such a combination.

I find that TLS generally is down on any dual-degree. The instinctive response if "Why do that? Firms won't care." People have their reasons, however; and the majority of us don't know the first thing about what firms actually want (aside from a top law degree).

Anyway, OP, if it helps, I have friends at Boalt who are pursuing Master's degrees at Wharton, Princeton, Fletcher, and the like. It is inconvenient, geographically, but they are doing it. Just requires a bit of extra legwork.

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RMUDelicious
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Re: Harvard JD + Stanford MBA

Postby RMUDelicious » Sun Jan 02, 2011 9:09 pm

You only live once, so go for it. In a perfect world I would get both an MBA and a JD, and from different schools. If your ideal resume listed Harvard JD and Stanford MBA you should do everything you can to make that happen. I would assume since they are on different coasts it will be near impossible to do a dual degree between the schools, so it will most likely take 5 years to complete. This means a significant investment in time and $$$$, but an empty wallet is only half bad when you're living your dreams. I would call or email the admissions offices of both and ask whether they allow joint programs with other schools and what the restrictions are, they may allow it but with reduced credit sharing which would still help. Good luck.

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Shaggier1
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Re: Harvard JD + Stanford MBA

Postby Shaggier1 » Sun Jan 02, 2011 9:13 pm

I would assume since they are on different coasts it will be near impossible to do a dual degree between the schools, so it will most likely take 5 years to complete.


I don't see why this would be the case. The students to which I referred above are doing dual degrees on different coasts in four years. 2.5 years at Boalt and 1.5 years at East Coast school.

bdubs
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Re: Harvard JD + Stanford MBA

Postby bdubs » Sun Jan 02, 2011 9:26 pm

Shaggier1 wrote:
I would assume since they are on different coasts it will be near impossible to do a dual degree between the schools, so it will most likely take 5 years to complete.


I don't see why this would be the case. The students to which I referred above are doing dual degrees on different coasts in four years. 2.5 years at Boalt and 1.5 years at East Coast school.


That doesn't sound like a dual degreee, but instead like accelerating law graduation in order to pursue a degree from another school. That may be possible, but it's not really a dual degree unless there is some credit given for law classes in order to graduate from the other school.

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Shaggier1
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Re: Harvard JD + Stanford MBA

Postby Shaggier1 » Sun Jan 02, 2011 9:30 pm

That doesn't sound like a dual degreee, but instead like accelerating law graduation in order to pursue a degree from another school. That may be possible, but it's not really a dual degree unless there is some credit given for law classes in order to graduate from the other school.


There is cross credit. That is precisely what allows them to cut a semester off of each program...

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RMUDelicious
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Re: Harvard JD + Stanford MBA

Postby RMUDelicious » Sun Jan 02, 2011 9:36 pm

Shaggier1 wrote:
I would assume since they are on different coasts it will be near impossible to do a dual degree between the schools, so it will most likely take 5 years to complete.


I don't see why this would be the case. The students to which I referred above are doing dual degrees on different coasts in four years. 2.5 years at Boalt and 1.5 years at East Coast school.


I stand corrected. I made an assumption based on my experiences working as a graduate assistant in a T3 admissions office (It is near impossible to share credits with another school where I go). I would be prepared for the worst but If you can get the two schools to play nice, then there shouldn't be an issue. It appears that higher ranked schools are more likely to accept dual degree students from other universities / make concessions.

ran12
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Re: Harvard JD + Stanford MBA

Postby ran12 » Sun Jan 02, 2011 9:41 pm

It would be difficult to do a dual between Harvard and Stanford b/c of the team emphasis for b-schools. Many of the assignments are team based and from my experience at Duke, participation is a big part of your grade as b-schools view discussion style as the best way to learn. Students usually have something to contribute from their work experience.

emptybee
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Re: Harvard JD + Stanford MBA

Postby emptybee » Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:10 pm

Hi guys, first off, thanks a bunch for your replies.

Background on myself: I got into HLS out of undergrad on numbers, and deferred HLS to join a very early-stage tech start up as one of the first employees. I intend to work here for about ~3 years. I'm not sure (but hoping) that this substantive work experience + HLS admission will help swing me into an MBA.

For the industry that I want to go into, a JD/MBA is a true value-added rather than blatant degree-whorism. I've spoken with several people in this and similar career paths, and they've confirmed this.

In terms of why Stanford over Harvard: I'm of course not necessarily opposed to HBS (and am not a snob), but I feel that I'd benefit from the different networks (Stanford being in the Bay Area, and Harvard being east coast and more international, or so I hear).

At the end of the day, the minor inconveniences of doing the degrees at 2 different schools are outweighed by the benefits.

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robotclubmember
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Re: Harvard JD + Stanford MBA

Postby robotclubmember » Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:23 pm

emptybee wrote:Hi guys, first off, thanks a bunch for your replies.

Background on myself: I got into HLS out of undergrad on numbers, and deferred HLS to join a very early-stage tech start up as one of the first employees. I intend to work here for about ~3 years. I'm not sure (but hoping) that this substantive work experience + HLS admission will help swing me into an MBA.

For the industry that I want to go into, a JD/MBA is a true value-added rather than blatant degree-whorism. I've spoken with several people in this and similar career paths, and they've confirmed this.

In terms of why Stanford over Harvard: I'm of course not necessarily opposed to HBS (and am not a snob), but I feel that I'd benefit from the different networks (Stanford being in the Bay Area, and Harvard being east coast and more international, or so I hear).

At the end of the day, the minor inconveniences of doing the degrees at 2 different schools are outweighed by the benefits.


I would not characterize transcontinental travel requirements and living arrangements as a minor inconvenience for the average person, but I assume you can swing it.

As was mentioned above, your networking ability at both schools may suffer. The question is, would you prefer very close connections with your class, or would you prefer twice as many connections, but connections which are weaker? As a 1L at Harvard you will make close connections. Then taking the next year off to do an MBA will mean they become 3L's by the time you are still a 2L. This means you will be exposed to more Harvard Law students, but will have far less exposure to each of them individually, and your connections will be weaker. Same at Stanford. You will not be as close with your graduating class by taking this approach. Do you prefer quantity or quality? Both sides have merits and I'm sure you've evaluated them (if you really think your network won't suffer, ask people how their network fares when they transfer from one school to another...).

Logistically, it would be a challenge. If you are slick, you could probably get Harvard and Stanford to agree to allowing credits to transfer over as cross-credits into each other's schools. Many on this forum would tell you it's nonsense and not possible. That's ridiculous. The choice is always: make things happen or let them happen to you. Just make it happen. It's been done before. All you need is initiative and good reasons. It's so rare that it's really up to you to figure out how to do it, but I hope that when you do, you tell the rest of us how it happened! :)

bdubs
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Re: Harvard JD + Stanford MBA

Postby bdubs » Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:31 pm

emptybee wrote:Hi guys, first off, thanks a bunch for your replies.

Background on myself: I got into HLS out of undergrad on numbers, and deferred HLS to join a very early-stage tech start up as one of the first employees. I intend to work here for about ~3 years. I'm not sure (but hoping) that this substantive work experience + HLS admission will help swing me into an MBA.

For the industry that I want to go into, a JD/MBA is a true value-added rather than blatant degree-whorism. I've spoken with several people in this and similar career paths, and they've confirmed this.

In terms of why Stanford over Harvard: I'm of course not necessarily opposed to HBS (and am not a snob), but I feel that I'd benefit from the different networks (Stanford being in the Bay Area, and Harvard being east coast and more international, or so I hear).

At the end of the day, the minor inconveniences of doing the degrees at 2 different schools are outweighed by the benefits.


I have friends in both programs. I can tell you that HBS and GSB are very different environments as are SLS and HLS. Seeing as how you are already in at HLS and have deferred I would certainly contact them about pursuing a dual degree through cross credits from GSB. If as Shaggier has pointed out this is possible in a 2.5/1.5 I think it makes a ton of sense.

I can only really see this working if they let you skip out on 3L to go out to Palo Alto, start with your MBA class and study for 1.5 years, then go back to Cambridge to finish your last semester of law school. Missing first semester of b-school would almost destroy the experience from what I gather.

Best of luck. Please report back what you hear from HLS and GSB.

Starting5
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Re: Harvard JD + Stanford MBA

Postby Starting5 » Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:42 am

FWIW, as of a few years ago at least, Harvard and Stanford would not permit a combined JD/MBA at the two schools. Some of this may have been based on the practicality of the East Coast vs. West Coast for a combined degree. But I strongly suspect it was largely due to two "powerhouse" schools with top-ranked Law AND Business Schools simply not wanting to share their students. No other schools in the Country have law and business schools that are both widely considered "top 2 or 3" in the nation/world. (The other truly elite (top 3) law and business schools, such as Yale in law or Wharton (Penn) in business, don't have a business school (Yale) or a law school (Penn) that has the same stature for the other half of the JD/MBA.)

As a result, Stanford and Harvard probably both feel that students wishing to pursue JD/MBAs, should they be able to meet the tough admission standards at each of their own law and business schools, have the best JD/MBA programs right there on their own campuses--without also enrolling at their primary competitor. Yale, on the other hand, at least as of a few years ago, did allow a couple law students to pursue MBAs at Harvard or Stanford, likely as a way not to "lose" those few JD/MBA-oriented YLS students to what are their primary law school competitors (HS). It is also a tacit admission/acknowledgement by Yale that their B-School does not compete well with the Stanford GSB or HBS. And, of course, recognizing that YLS is the one school to which both Harvard and Stanford each lose a number of cross-admits in law, H and S permitted this MBA coupling with the Yale JD. But the long-time rivalry/competition between Harvard and Stanford for admitted students at both their law and business schools (as well as many other programs) may well explain their position on this issue.

If this policy is still in effect (and getting over the challenging admissions hurdles), the choice would be between the straight Harvard or Stanford JD/MBA. There are certainly worse choices in life....

wreakingofswagger
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Re: Harvard JD + Stanford MBA

Postby wreakingofswagger » Sun Apr 03, 2011 4:34 pm

I apologize for bumping an old thread, but I just wanted to say Starting5 is correct. I know someone who recently completed
a four-year joint JD/MBA with YLS and Stanford GSB, so it's definitely possible, although he/she's one of the most accomplished and ambitious individuals I have ever known. I say if you're sure that's what you really want to do, go for it.

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tehrocstar
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Re: Harvard JD + Stanford MBA

Postby tehrocstar » Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:03 am

wreakingofswagger wrote:I apologize for bumping an old thread, but I just wanted to say Starting5 is correct. I know someone who recently completed
a four-year joint JD/MBA with YLS and Stanford GSB, so it's definitely possible, although he/she's one of the most accomplished and ambitious individuals I have ever known. I say if you're sure that's what you really want to do, go for it.


What process did she have to go through to finish this in 4 years? Meaning hurdles with administration, same question to the author of the post above the one quoted here.




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