UC Irvine

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
greg737
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 5:20 pm

UC Irvine

Postby greg737 » Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:57 am

What are the thoughts here about applying to/attending UC Irvine? It seems they want to bring in a top-notch class, so when they are accredited, they are ranked high. But, of course, they are not ABA-accredited right now, so is that/should that be a big issue?

User avatar
nealric
Posts: 2391
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:53 am

Re: UC Irvine

Postby nealric » Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:40 pm

The quality of their class will slowly and steadily decline as the scholarships are phased out. There was already a significant drop in student quality after the inaugural class.

IMO it was a decent deal for the inaugural class and perhaps the second class, not so much now.

ViP
Posts: 419
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:53 pm

Re: UC Irvine

Postby ViP » Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:57 pm

nealric wrote:The quality of their class will slowly and steadily decline as the scholarships are phased out. There was already a significant drop in student quality after the inaugural class.

IMO it was a decent deal for the inaugural class and perhaps the second class, not so much now.


First class: 3.43-3.76; 164-168
Second class: 3.38-3.79; 163-169

ViP
Posts: 419
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:53 pm

Re: UC Irvine

Postby ViP » Tue Dec 07, 2010 4:02 pm

greg737 wrote:What are the thoughts here about applying to/attending UC Irvine? It seems they want to bring in a top-notch class, so when they are accredited, they are ranked high. But, of course, they are not ABA-accredited right now, so is that/should that be a big issue?


UCI will be eligible for provisional accreditation in the spring, at which point all graduates can take the bar.

From today's LA Daily Journal:

"Bob Williams, the firmwide recruiting partner at Sheppard Mullin, said the school's accreditation status had no bearing on their decision to hire from UC Irvine. 'I think it would be kind of arrogant of an employer not to take notice of that school,' Williams said. 'This is a group of students who certainly are not less qualified than other groups.' Williams said the start-up nature of the school in some ways gives the students more marketable skills, because they have to launch programs like the law review from scratch without any institutionalized guidance."

http://law.uci.edu/pdf/djournal_120710.pdf

User avatar
Blindmelon
Posts: 1708
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:13 am

Re: UC Irvine

Postby Blindmelon » Tue Dec 07, 2010 5:30 pm

If you can't get into a T14 and you want to work in CA, and can't get into UCLA/USC, Davis/Hastings, then its prob. a good bet. Better than other schools in CA probably.

User avatar
im_blue
Posts: 3276
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:53 am

Re: UC Irvine

Postby im_blue » Tue Dec 07, 2010 5:45 pm

Blindmelon wrote:If you can't get into a T14 and you want to work in CA, and can't get into UCLA/USC, Davis/Hastings, then its prob. a good bet. Better than other schools in CA probably.

+1. Anything lower than Davis/Hastings is going to be a huge crapshoot anyway, so might as well go to UCI at a much lower cost.

User avatar
2014
Posts: 5831
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:53 pm

Re: UC Irvine

Postby 2014 » Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:24 pm

I imagine their job placement for the first few years will be remarkable in an effort to game the initial rankings. I would think a new school who has an expressed goal of being top 20 really can't afford to have hiring be a bloodbath.

User avatar
Blindmelon
Posts: 1708
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:13 am

Re: UC Irvine

Postby Blindmelon » Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:36 pm

2014 wrote:I imagine their job placement for the first few years will be remarkable in an effort to game the initial rankings. I would think a new school who has an expressed goal of being top 20 really can't afford to have hiring be a bloodbath.


Doubtful their desires to be high in the rankings will somehow lead to great job placement. If you mean pure # of people with jobs, then yea, I assume they'll try to get everyone employed (although all schools do this, even NU hires post-grad RAs).

trudat15
Posts: 900
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:57 pm

Re: UC Irvine

Postby trudat15 » Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:30 pm

Blindmelon wrote:
2014 wrote:I imagine their job placement for the first few years will be remarkable in an effort to game the initial rankings. I would think a new school who has an expressed goal of being top 20 really can't afford to have hiring be a bloodbath.


Doubtful their desires to be high in the rankings will somehow lead to great job placement. If you mean pure # of people with jobs, then yea, I assume they'll try to get everyone employed (although all schools do this, even NU hires post-grad RAs).


If someone like Dean C is making calls for you to get you summer jobs, then imagine what they'll do to make sure you have a good job at grad. It'll be their first few classes, so they need to place alums in great jobs. Their small class sizes help them really focus on jobs for everyone.

Seems like they are much more engaged than other schools' Career centers.

User avatar
im_blue
Posts: 3276
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:53 am

Re: UC Irvine

Postby im_blue » Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:35 pm

trudat15 wrote:
Blindmelon wrote:
2014 wrote:I imagine their job placement for the first few years will be remarkable in an effort to game the initial rankings. I would think a new school who has an expressed goal of being top 20 really can't afford to have hiring be a bloodbath.


Doubtful their desires to be high in the rankings will somehow lead to great job placement. If you mean pure # of people with jobs, then yea, I assume they'll try to get everyone employed (although all schools do this, even NU hires post-grad RAs).


If someone like Dean C is making calls for you to get you summer jobs, then imagine what they'll do to make sure you have a good job at grad. It'll be their first few classes, so they need to place alums in great jobs. Their small class sizes help them really focus on jobs for everyone.

Seems like they are much more engaged than other schools' Career centers.

As far as US News is concerned, all they have to do is hire the unemployed grads as RAs to achieve 100% employment at graduation.

User avatar
AreJay711
Posts: 3406
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:51 pm

Re: UC Irvine

Postby AreJay711 » Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:41 pm

im_blue wrote:
trudat15 wrote:
Blindmelon wrote:
2014 wrote:I imagine their job placement for the first few years will be remarkable in an effort to game the initial rankings. I would think a new school who has an expressed goal of being top 20 really can't afford to have hiring be a bloodbath.


Doubtful their desires to be high in the rankings will somehow lead to great job placement. If you mean pure # of people with jobs, then yea, I assume they'll try to get everyone employed (although all schools do this, even NU hires post-grad RAs).


If someone like Dean C is making calls for you to get you summer jobs, then imagine what they'll do to make sure you have a good job at grad. It'll be their first few classes, so they need to place alums in great jobs. Their small class sizes help them really focus on jobs for everyone.

Seems like they are much more engaged than other schools' Career centers.

As far as US News is concerned, all they have to do is hire the unemployed grads as RAs to achieve 100% employment at graduation.


But you are overlooking their need to get good peer assessment scores which are the main component to rankings. Getting graduates employed in real jobs is very important for people to take the school seriously.

User avatar
FuManChusco
Posts: 1217
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:56 pm

Re: UC Irvine

Postby FuManChusco » Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:02 pm

it's going to be hard to break t20 with WUSTL paying out the ass for LSATs

ViP
Posts: 419
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:53 pm

Re: UC Irvine

Postby ViP » Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:48 am

AreJay711 wrote:
im_blue wrote:
trudat15 wrote:
If someone like Dean C is making calls for you to get you summer jobs, then imagine what they'll do to make sure you have a good job at grad. It'll be their first few classes, so they need to place alums in great jobs. Their small class sizes help them really focus on jobs for everyone.

Seems like they are much more engaged than other schools' Career centers.

As far as US News is concerned, all they have to do is hire the unemployed grads as RAs to achieve 100% employment at graduation.


But you are overlooking their need to get good peer assessment scores which are the main component to rankings. Getting graduates employed in real jobs is very important for people to take the school seriously.


Peer assessment scores are 25% of the US News rankings, and they have nothing to do with employment. Peer assessment means assessment by law school deans, deans of academic affairs, chairs of faculty appointments, and most recently tenured faculty members.

Every student in the inaugural class had a "real" job for 1L summer last year, and here's an excerpt from an article today discussing the jobs the current 2Ls are looking forward to next summer:

"Employers who made offers to UC Irvine students through the on-campus interview process include Jones Day; O'Melveny & [deleted]; Morrison & Forrester; Sheppard Mullin Richter & Hampton; Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher; and Crowell & Moring, among other national and regional firms, and public interest organizations including the ACLU of Southern California and the Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights Under Law."

People are taking UCI very seriously.

User avatar
im_blue
Posts: 3276
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:53 am

Re: UC Irvine

Postby im_blue » Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:50 am

ViP wrote:
AreJay711 wrote:
im_blue wrote:
trudat15 wrote:
If someone like Dean C is making calls for you to get you summer jobs, then imagine what they'll do to make sure you have a good job at grad. It'll be their first few classes, so they need to place alums in great jobs. Their small class sizes help them really focus on jobs for everyone.

Seems like they are much more engaged than other schools' Career centers.

As far as US News is concerned, all they have to do is hire the unemployed grads as RAs to achieve 100% employment at graduation.


But you are overlooking their need to get good peer assessment scores which are the main component to rankings. Getting graduates employed in real jobs is very important for people to take the school seriously.


Peer assessment scores are 25% of the US News rankings, and they have nothing to do with employment. Peer assessment means assessment by law school deans, deans of academic affairs, chairs of faculty appointments, and most recently tenured faculty members.

Every student in the inaugural class had a "real" job for 1L summer last year, and here's an excerpt from an article today discussing the jobs the current 2Ls are looking forward to next summer:

"Employers who made offers to UC Irvine students through the on-campus interview process include Jones Day; O'Melveny & [deleted]; Morrison & Forrester; Sheppard Mullin Richter & Hampton; Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher; and Crowell & Moring, among other national and regional firms, and public interest organizations including the ACLU of Southern California and the Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights Under Law."

People are taking UCI very seriously.

Not saying UCI is guilty of this, but it's entirely possible that the 6 firms mentioned all gave offers to the same 2-3 students, with a steep dropoff in firm prestige after the very top few students. High schools often use this tactic: "Our students were accepted to 6 different Ivy League schools" when they're only talking about the valedictorian. Why not just list all employers instead of mentioning which ones gave offers?

ViP
Posts: 419
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:53 pm

Re: UC Irvine

Postby ViP » Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:09 am

im_blue wrote:
ViP wrote:Peer assessment scores are 25% of the US News rankings, and they have nothing to do with employment. Peer assessment means assessment by law school deans, deans of academic affairs, chairs of faculty appointments, and most recently tenured faculty members.

Every student in the inaugural class had a "real" job for 1L summer last year, and here's an excerpt from an article today discussing the jobs the current 2Ls are looking forward to next summer:

"Employers who made offers to UC Irvine students through the on-campus interview process include Jones Day; O'Melveny & [deleted]; Morrison & Forrester; Sheppard Mullin Richter & Hampton; Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher; and Crowell & Moring, among other national and regional firms, and public interest organizations including the ACLU of Southern California and the Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights Under Law."

People are taking UCI very seriously.

Not saying UCI is guilty of this, but it's entirely possible that the 6 firms mentioned all gave offers to the same 2-3 students, with a steep dropoff in firm prestige after the very top few students. High schools often use this tactic: "Our students were accepted to 6 different Ivy League schools" when they're only talking about the valedictorian. Why not just list all employers instead of mentioning which ones gave offers?


Very true. But it's too earlier in the year to release a full list of employers since not all the students have heard back from employers yet. The 1Ls received a full list of the jobs/employers from the inaugural class' 1L summer, though, and I can assure you they were all real jobs, haha. My point is just that people are aware of UCI and taking it quite seriously.

User avatar
AreJay711
Posts: 3406
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:51 pm

Re: UC Irvine

Postby AreJay711 » Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:26 am

ViP wrote:
AreJay711 wrote:
im_blue wrote:
trudat15 wrote:
If someone like Dean C is making calls for you to get you summer jobs, then imagine what they'll do to make sure you have a good job at grad. It'll be their first few classes, so they need to place alums in great jobs. Their small class sizes help them really focus on jobs for everyone.

Seems like they are much more engaged than other schools' Career centers.

As far as US News is concerned, all they have to do is hire the unemployed grads as RAs to achieve 100% employment at graduation.


But you are overlooking their need to get good peer assessment scores which are the main component to rankings. Getting graduates employed in real jobs is very important for people to take the school seriously.


Peer assessment scores are 25% of the US News rankings, and they have nothing to do with employment. Peer assessment means assessment by law school deans, deans of academic affairs, chairs of faculty appointments, and most recently tenured faculty members.

Every student in the inaugural class had a "real" job for 1L summer last year, and here's an excerpt from an article today discussing the jobs the current 2Ls are looking forward to next summer:

"Employers who made offers to UC Irvine students through the on-campus interview process include Jones Day; O'Melveny & [deleted]; Morrison & Forrester; Sheppard Mullin Richter & Hampton; Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher; and Crowell & Moring, among other national and regional firms, and public interest organizations including the ACLU of Southern California and the Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights Under Law."

People are taking UCI very seriously.

You also have the peer assessment from lawyers and judges but it absolutely does matter. If Michigan has a bad employment year, it isn't going to affect its reputation but for UCI, with no history, how it places its students will have a huge effect on how people perceive the school. If everyone is unemployed at graduation then it wont matter if UCI has the best faculty in the world, people won't think very highly of it.

ViP
Posts: 419
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:53 pm

Re: UC Irvine

Postby ViP » Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:44 am

AreJay711 wrote:You also have the peer assessment from lawyers and judges but it absolutely does matter. If Michigan has a bad employment year, it isn't going to affect its reputation but for UCI, with no history, how it places its students will have a huge effect on how people perceive the school. If everyone is unemployed at graduation then it wont matter if UCI has the best faculty in the world, people won't think very highly of it.


No, peer assessment is not from lawyers and judges. It's solely from academics. It has nothing to do with employment.

You're referring to "assessment by lawyers/judges," which is only 15% of the rankings, but it too has virtually nothing to do with employment. Everyone knows that the assessment by lawyers/judges is a total farce, although it unfortunately remains 15% of the rankings.

But you're talking about employment rates, anyway, and that's a completely different criterion in the rankings and UCI has no graduates yet. All we have to base our predictions on are the the bits of info discussed here, which indicate that so far UCI is placing its students quite well. Hopefully it's an indication of how the students will fare upon graduation, too.

User avatar
AreJay711
Posts: 3406
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:51 pm

Re: UC Irvine

Postby AreJay711 » Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:08 am

ViP wrote:
AreJay711 wrote:You also have the peer assessment from lawyers and judges but it absolutely does matter. If Michigan has a bad employment year, it isn't going to affect its reputation but for UCI, with no history, how it places its students will have a huge effect on how people perceive the school. If everyone is unemployed at graduation then it wont matter if UCI has the best faculty in the world, people won't think very highly of it.


No, peer assessment is not from lawyers and judges. It's solely from academics. It has nothing to do with employment.

You're referring to "assessment by lawyers/judges," which is only 15% of the rankings, but it too has virtually nothing to do with employment. Everyone knows that the assessment by lawyers/judges is a total farce, although it unfortunately remains 15% of the rankings.

But you're talking about employment rates, anyway, and that's a completely different criterion in the rankings and UCI has no graduates yet. All we have to base our predictions on are the the bits of info discussed here, which indicate that so far UCI is placing its students quite well. Hopefully it's an indication of how the students will fare upon graduation, too.


So you are an academic. You hear UCI did an terrible job placing graduates; they might as well have taken a vacation for 3 years. Ok now give me your rank.

Now imagine they do an amazing job. The place 100% of graduates -- and not a Duke 100% but legitimately 100% of the students get offers because the school goes above and beyond for each and every one of them standing as a shining example for the world of legal education. Now rank them.

Academics have to come up with their opinions from somewhere and even though it is being formed right now and not after the first graduating class, how well UCI does for their students matters for that opinion. If all the press was about how terrible it was going to be for these graduates the assessment scores would be much lower even though UCI has a great faculty.

ViP
Posts: 419
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:53 pm

Re: UC Irvine

Postby ViP » Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:26 am

AreJay711 wrote:
ViP wrote:
AreJay711 wrote:You also have the peer assessment from lawyers and judges but it absolutely does matter. If Michigan has a bad employment year, it isn't going to affect its reputation but for UCI, with no history, how it places its students will have a huge effect on how people perceive the school. If everyone is unemployed at graduation then it wont matter if UCI has the best faculty in the world, people won't think very highly of it.


No, peer assessment is not from lawyers and judges. It's solely from academics. It has nothing to do with employment.

You're referring to "assessment by lawyers/judges," which is only 15% of the rankings, but it too has virtually nothing to do with employment. Everyone knows that the assessment by lawyers/judges is a total farce, although it unfortunately remains 15% of the rankings.

But you're talking about employment rates, anyway, and that's a completely different criterion in the rankings and UCI has no graduates yet. All we have to base our predictions on are the the bits of info discussed here, which indicate that so far UCI is placing its students quite well. Hopefully it's an indication of how the students will fare upon graduation, too.


So you are an academic. You hear UCI did an terrible job placing graduates; they might as well have taken a vacation for 3 years. Ok now give me your rank.

Now imagine they do an amazing job. The place 100% of graduates -- and not a Duke 100% but legitimately 100% of the students get offers because the school goes above and beyond for each and every one of them standing as a shining example for the world of legal education. Now rank them.

Academics have to come up with their opinions from somewhere and even though it is being formed right now and not after the first graduating class, how well UCI does for their students matters for that opinion. If all the press was about how terrible it was going to be for these graduates the assessment scores would be much lower even though UCI has a great faculty.


That doesn't make any sense. If that was the point of peer assessment, why have peer assessment at all? Why not just have employment rates? We don't need academics to read employment rates to us.

This is getting really off-topic, though.

User avatar
lawandi
Posts: 125
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:32 pm

Re: UC Irvine

Postby lawandi » Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:42 am

I am very excited about UC Irvine because of it's amazing location and campus, and from what I've heard it seems like the job prospects will be good. There's also something exciting about being a part of something in its formative years.
I would choose Irvine over Hastings and Davis because of how awesome it is and b/c it's close to my boyfriend.

User avatar
FuManChusco
Posts: 1217
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:56 pm

Re: UC Irvine

Postby FuManChusco » Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:47 am

lawandi wrote:I am very excited about UC Irvine because of it's amazing location and campus, and from what I've heard it seems like the job prospects will be good. There's also something exciting about being a part of something in its formative years.
I would choose Irvine over Hastings and Davis because of how awesome it is and b/c it's close to my boyfriend.


you were talking shit to me earlier about my 2.6 gpa and you said you were t20 bound. lulz.

User avatar
lawandi
Posts: 125
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:32 pm

Re: UC Irvine

Postby lawandi » Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:56 am

FuManChusco wrote:
lawandi wrote:I am very excited about UC Irvine because of it's amazing location and campus, and from what I've heard it seems like the job prospects will be good. There's also something exciting about being a part of something in its formative years.
I would choose Irvine over Hastings and Davis because of how awesome it is and b/c it's close to my boyfriend.


you were talking shit to me earlier about my 2.6 gpa and you said you were t20 bound. lulz.



does that offensive thread really have to follow me around? everyone applies to a broad range of schools, i happen to be excited about all of them.

let's return to the topic at hand. you can start your own thread hating on me and women if you like.

greg737
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 5:20 pm

Re: UC Irvine

Postby greg737 » Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:52 am

Thanks for all the response. It definitely seems like the accreditation is not too big a of a deal and that Irvine is a pretty strong option in Southern California, outside of 'SC and UCLA of course.

User avatar
Aberzombie1892
Posts: 1907
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:56 am

Re: UC Irvine

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Wed Dec 08, 2010 8:17 am

Outside of USC and UCLA, the primary options are Davis/Hastings and UCI.

I would consider going to the cheapest of the three.

After UCI quits giving out free scholarships, it will be harder to get into and to get money from than Davis/Hastings - while not having the established reputations of those two schools.

This is something to consider.

User avatar
Blindmelon
Posts: 1708
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:13 am

Re: UC Irvine

Postby Blindmelon » Wed Dec 08, 2010 8:41 am

ViP your trolling is a bit much. You a UCI adcomm member or something? No one said your school isn't being taken seriously or whatever. Its just still an unaccredited school with no track reccord, and for a lot of people, there are better options out there.




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests