Tax Law Forum

[TrojanHopeful]

I am interested in practicing tax law. I am curious to see if anyone else is looking into tax programs. I have noticed that schools such as Loyola Los Angeles, University of San Diego, and University of Miami are ranked in the top 10 for tax but are far from the elite when it comes to the general law rankings. That being said, is it worth it to focus on schools that are ranked high in your respective major but are not ranked high otherwise?

[twert]

i think those schools have good programs because there is a lot of demand in their respective markets. I think your best bet is to chose your school based on location.

[Danteshek]

Depends. Can you get into an elite law school?

[TrojanHopeful]

Yes, Loyola and USD do place well in Southern California.

As far as whether I can get into an elite law school, it depends on what I get on the LSAT (obviously); so I guess my inquiries are premature at the moment. Just thinking ahead (and thinking positive).

[A'nold]

The question is: who the hell would actually enjoy tax law?

[TrojanHopeful]

For some reason I get that response quite frequently.

[Classygal87]

those who would enjoy tax law are people who enjoy being employed and making money. Especially if they have their CPA as well.

[270910]

Tax law?

[rando]

Sigh.

1) The top tax law schools are Yale, Harvard, and Stanford. After that are Columbia, Chicago, and NYU. Close on their heels are Berkeley, Michigan, Penn, and Virginia - with Northwestern and Duke right in the same ballpark. Cornell and Georgetown are also terrific, as are UCLA, Texas, and Vanderbilt. There are a few more respectable schools, but for the most part at that point the best tax schools tend to be the well regarded law schools in the area you want to practice.

2) The practice of tax law is NOTHING like the practice of accounting. Tax law very rarely requires a CPA, nor is one especially useful. Tax law (at the medium to large firm level) deals with the precise legal functioning of the internal revenue code, interaction/interface with the treasury department, and monitoring/lobbying of congressional action with respect to the code.

Tax lawyers don't really do any more math than litigators. To the extent that it is a technical area of a law, that is the result of the legalistic functioning of the code and disputes of classifications of various activities, products, and transactions.

I am surprised it took this lon to see a sensible post.

Also. To OP. You realize law schools dont have 'majors' right?
And USD and Loyola do not place well in SoCal fyi.

[nealric]

Sigh.

1) The top tax law schools are Yale, Harvard, and Stanford. After that are Columbia, Chicago, and NYU. Close on their heels are Berkeley, Michigan, Penn, and Virginia - with Northwestern and Duke right in the same ballpark. Cornell and Georgetown are also terrific, as are UCLA, Texas, and Vanderbilt. There are a few more respectable schools, but for the most part at that point the best tax schools tend to be the well regarded law schools in the area you want to practice.

2) The practice of tax law is NOTHING like the practice of accounting. Tax law very rarely requires a CPA, nor is one especially useful. Tax law (at the medium to large firm level) deals with the precise legal functioning of the internal revenue code, interaction/interface with the treasury department, and monitoring/lobbying of congressional action with respect to the code.

Tax lawyers don't really do any more math than litigators. To the extent that it is a technical area of a law, that is the result of the legalistic functioning of the code and disputes of classifications of various activities, products, and transactions.

Cosigned- with one small caveat. If you are dead-set on tax law, it would be a good idea to choose NYU over Columbia or GULC over Cornell. The reason is that NYU and GULC have the two top tax LLM programs. You don't necessarily need to get a tax LLM, but the existence of the program will enable you to get a more solid foundation in tax due to the wider course offerings and better-known profs. That doesn't mean you should choose GULC over Harvard or anything drastic like that.

A few discombobulated thoughts:

I'm probably going into tax (assuming my firm places me in the tax department). I just finished my J.D. and am doing a one-semester tax LLM as part of a joint degree program during my deferral. Tax is one of those fields that gets more interesting as you know more about the subject.

It's also worth mentioning that tax is a very diverse field. You have everything from estate planning, to ERISA, to International M&A, to tax controversy. Advice regarding one field won't necessarily apply to others. International and M&A practices are pretty much exclusively the domain of biglaw and Big4 accounting. Either requires high-end credentials to get hired. By contrast, estate planning is a bit more accessible- it's mostly (but not exclusively) a small firm practice. Tax controversy can run the gambit from massive corporate tax shelter cases to assisting the indigent with earned-income tax credit denials.

[270910]

I suppose. Still, tax law?

[TrojanHopeful]

Thanks for the interesting posts; this was the kind of insight I was looking for. I was initially looking at the US News rankings for top tax law programs, which lists the following:

1 - New York University
2 - Georgetown University
3 - University of Florida (Levin)
4 - Northwestern University
5 - University of Miami
6 - Boston University
University of San Diego
8 - Harvard University
9 - Loyola Marymount University, Los Angeles
10 - University of Virginia

My intentions at the moment consist of being involved in estate/wealth planning; however, that could very well change as I progress through law school. The little exposure I have had to tax (many tax-related undergrad classes and I work at an accounting firm) have enticed me enough to want to explore the field further.

Rando, yes, I am aware that law schools do not have "majors," I suppose I should have used the term "specialty" instead. I was not aware that Loyola and USD do not place well in the area (on the contrary, I was under the belief that they did place well within southern California); thank you for that piece of information. I will have to look into that further, as those were some of my top choices.

[rando]

Thanks for the interesting posts; this was the kind of insight I was looking for. I was initially looking at the US News rankings for top tax law programs, which lists the following:

1 - New York University
2 - Georgetown University
3 - University of Florida (Levin)
4 - Northwestern University
5 - University of Miami
6 - Boston University
University of San Diego
8 - Harvard University
9 - Loyola Marymount University, Los Angeles
10 - University of Virginia

My intentions at the moment consist of being involved in estate/wealth planning; however, that could very well change as I progress through law school. The little exposure I have had to tax (many tax-related undergrad classes and I work at an accounting firm) have enticed me enough to want to explore the field further.

Rando, yes, I am aware that law schools do not have "majors," I suppose I should have used the term "specialty" instead. I was not aware that Loyola and USD do not place well in the area; thank you for that piece of information. I will have to look into that, as those were some of my top choices.

You really should avoid the specialty rankings. They are misleading at best and disingenuous at worst. If you really want to get into tax then you should go to the best school you can get into/scholarship $$ considerations, take as many tax courses as you can, work in tax during the summers, and speak to people like nealrc who have some experience in the field.

[270910]

You really should avoid the specialty rankings. They are misleading at best and disingenuous at worst. If you really want to get into tax then you should go to the best school you can get into/scholarship $$ considerations, take as many tax courses as you can, work in tax during the summers, and speak to people like nealrc who have some experience in the field.

+1

[Danteshek]

I was not aware that Loyola and USD do not place well in the area (on the contrary, I was under the belief that they did place well within southern California); thank you for that piece of information. I will have to look into that further, as those were some of my top choices.

It's all relative. You need to look at specific firms to determine where Loyola and USD have a strong presence.

[A'nold]

The real question is: who the hell would enjoy tax law?


Since this very insightful question was not answered earlier, I shall elaborate: Nobody. People pretend that they "like" tax and tax law so as to convince people and themselves that they will not be doing the most mind numbing work known to man as a sellout for job stability and a decent paycheck.

[270910]

The real question is: who the hell would enjoy tax law?


Since this very insightful question was not answered earlier, I shall elaborate: Nobody. People pretend that they "like" tax and tax law so as to convince people and themselves that they will not be doing the most mind numbing work known to man as a sellout for job stability and a decent paycheck.

I know you're kidding, but it's really not like that at all

[Danteshek]

The real question is: who the hell would enjoy tax law?

Since this very insightful question was not answered earlier, I shall elaborate: Nobody. People pretend that they "like" tax and tax law so as to convince people and themselves that they will not be doing the most mind numbing work known to man as a sellout for job stability and a decent paycheck.

What high paying job isn't a sellout? President of the United States? Supreme Court Justice? Astronaut?

[TrojanHopeful]

The real question is: who the hell would enjoy tax law?

Since this very insightful question was not answered earlier, I shall elaborate: Nobody. People pretend that they "like" tax and tax law so as to convince people and themselves that they will not be doing the most mind numbing work known to man as a sellout for job stability and a decent paycheck.

What high paying job isn't a sellout? President of the United States? Supreme Court Justice? Astronaut?

Las Vegas Escort?

[drdolittle]

is it worth it to focus on schools that are ranked high in your respective major but are not ranked high otherwise?

No. Focus on the overall highest ranked/regarded schools you could get into.

[Grizz]

is it worth it to focus on schools that are ranked high in your respective major but are not ranked high otherwise?

No. Focus on the overall highest ranked/regarded schools you could get into in the region you want to practice.

FTFY

If you don't hit T10-12 (or so), of course.

[drdolittle]

is it worth it to focus on schools that are ranked high in your respective major but are not ranked high otherwise?

No. Focus on the overall highest ranked/regarded schools you could get into in the region you want to practice.

FTFY

If you don't hit T10-12 (or so), of course.

Absolutely! Good edit. Intended, but not said.

[rando]

The real question is: who the hell would enjoy tax law?


Since this very insightful question was not answered earlier, I shall elaborate: Nobody. People pretend that they "like" tax and tax law so as to convince people and themselves that they will not be doing the most mind numbing work known to man as a sellout for job stability and a decent paycheck.

Disco mentioned you were kidding, but if you're not you really don't sound like you have a clue what you're talking about.

[nealric]

If you don't hit T10-12 (or so), of course.

I know TLS loves to bash the T14 concept here, but GULC really would be way better than a regional T2 for tax law (for reasons I mentioned above). I think there is a reasonable argument for attending UT/Vandy/UCLA/GW over the region you want to practice.

[bmwhype2]

Sigh.

1) The top tax law schools are Yale, Harvard, and Stanford. After that are Columbia, Chicago, and NYU. Close on their heels are Berkeley, Michigan, Penn, and Virginia - with Northwestern and Duke right in the same ballpark. Cornell and Georgetown are also terrific, as are UCLA, Texas, and Vanderbilt. There are a few more respectable schools, but for the most part at that point the best tax schools tend to be the well regarded law schools in the area you want to practice.

2) The practice of tax law is NOTHING like the practice of accounting. Tax law very rarely requires a CPA, nor is one especially useful. Tax law (at the medium to large firm level) deals with the precise legal functioning of the internal revenue code, interaction/interface with the treasury department, and monitoring/lobbying of congressional action with respect to the code.

Tax lawyers don't really do any more math than litigators. To the extent that it is a technical area of a law, that is the result of the legalistic functioning of the code and disputes of classifications of various activities, products, and transactions.

If an accounting background is not helpful, why is the CPA/JD combo so highly valued in most m&a tax advisory positions?

for example:
Transaction Tax Services group - Senior Tax Associate

Responsibilities:
Performing due diligence including review of tax returns, financials, and other tax documentation to evaluate potential tax risks and opportunities;
Drafting due diligence report of findings;
Reviewing and commenting on tax aspects of financial models;
Reviewing and commenting on tax aspects of purchase agreements;
Researching and drafting memoranda on federal tax matters;
Coordinating with state and local and international tax team members, as well as financial and operational due diligence team members, to deliver highest quality integrated work product.


Qualifications:
A CPA, JD (with bachelor's degree in accounting, preferred), Masters in Taxation, or LL.M.
1 - 3 years of tax consulting experience
Strong research and writing skills
Strong analytical skills
Team player and strong communication skills