ND vs WUSTL vs Illinois Forum

[crazyeddie]

Want to work for firm in Chicago. NLJ 250 would be nice, but would consider some midlaw firms as well.

[romothesavior]

Want to work for firm in Chicago. NLJ 250 would be nice, but would consider some midlaw firms as well.

Illinois.

[Kilpatrick]

So you want to work in Chicago, you're in at 3 peer schools that all place about the same in the market and one of them is offering you double the scholarship money of the other two? What exactly is the dilemma here?

[crazyeddie]

So you want to work in Chicago, you're in at 3 peer schools that all place about the same in the market and one of them is offering you double the scholarship money of the other two? What exactly is the dilemma here?

I should clarify, working in Chicago would be my 1st choice. But working for a well respected firm is more important to me. WUSTL offers Stl as a backup and more east coast portability. ND offers the best portability of all three.

All three primarily feed into Chicago, but WUSTL and ND have back ups.

[romothesavior]

So you want to work in Chicago, you're in at 3 peer schools that all place about the same in the market and one of them is offering you double the scholarship money of the other two? What exactly is the dilemma here?

I should clarify, working in Chicago would be my 1st choice. But working for a well respected firm is more important to me. WUSTL offers Stl as a backup and more east coast portability. ND offers the best portability of all three.

All three primarily feed into Chicago, but WUSTL and ND have back ups.

Illinois has decent portability, probably a little less than the other two, but still decent.

Take the lower debt. It will helps minimize the risk of LS.

[JOThompson]

Illinois for Chicago, and it's also going to be cheaper. If you want to maximize your portability throughout the region (or to the coasts to a very slight degree), then WUSTL.

[JCougar]

FWIW, I think Illinois' portability is really only limited by self-selection. Each school in that area has a good state school. Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Indiana, Ohio State all offer a pretty decent in-state discount and good placement in the state. Consequently, people from those states will go in-state rather than go to a place like Illinois. Illinois also offers an in-state discount, although not as large. But if you go to Illinois and have ties to a different area of the Midwest, you're not going to have a problem finding a job.

All three schools will offer a different culture. I've been to all three campuses. WUSTL is more ivy-esque and nerdy (not in a bad way) and in a big city, Illinois is a typical big state school with great sports teams in a college town, and ND is a bit more preppy and religious. It's important to think about where you'd best fit in and have the most fun.

Placement is equal between those three, and Illinois saves you $30,000 of debt after graduation. That's three years closer to debt freedom after you graduate (if you're condidering accrued interest and paying slightly over a grand a month).

[DerrickRose]

Not even close OP. Unless one of the other ones will match the money.

[cubswin]

I get the feeling that it's harder to crack Chicago with a WUSTL degree than people on this boards make it sound. Perhaps it's not as bad as its reputation on AutoAdmit, but I turned down a similar scholarship offer at WUSTL to ride out wait-lists or reapply next year.

Therefore, Illinois.

Edit: Grammar fail

[doomed123]

I get the feeling that it's harder to crack Chicago with a WUSTL degree than people on this boards make it sound. Perhaps it's not as bad as it's reputation on AutoAdmit, but I turned down a similar scholarship offer at WUSTL to ride out wait-lists or reapply next year.

Therefore, Illinois.

Everything has a bad reputation on AutoAdmit.

[JCougar]

I get the feeling that it's harder to crack Chicago with a WUSTL degree than people on this boards make it sound. Perhaps it's not as bad as its reputation on AutoAdmit, but I turned down a similar scholarship offer at WUSTL to ride out wait-lists or reapply next year.

Therefore, Illinois.

Edit: Grammar fail

WUSTL places people in V20 firms. They place one or two per year into Kirkland & Ellis. Not a ton, but it places them there. Same with Illinois. At either school, you're going to be at least top 10% to place into V100, but you can still get placed there if you wish. WUSTL was also placing people into Skadden before ITE. The difference in numbers is self-selection. A lot of Illinois' class is in-state that want to practice in-state, and therefore it places a higher volume in Chicago, but you can get those same jobs from WUSTL.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Wash U or Illinois.. either follow the money or follow the rankings.

[letsgo]

Why would anyone think WashU has more portability than Illinois. I keep seeing that comment on this board. I personally think it is one of the most over-rated schools. I would understand ND having more portability...

[Regionality]

I get the feeling that it's harder to crack Chicago with a WUSTL degree than people on this boards make it sound. Perhaps it's not as bad as its reputation on AutoAdmit, but I turned down a similar scholarship offer at WUSTL to ride out wait-lists or reapply next year.

Therefore, Illinois.

Edit: Grammar fail

WUSTL places people in V20 firms. They place one or two per year into Kirkland & Ellis. Not a ton, but it places them there. Same with Illinois. At either school, you're going to be at least top 10% to place into V100, but you can still get placed there if you wish. WUSTL was also placing people into Skadden before ITE. The difference in numbers is self-selection. A lot of Illinois' class is in-state that want to practice in-state, and therefore it places a higher volume in Chicago, but you can get those same jobs from WUSTL.

I would normally agree with this for state schools, but Illinois hardly has a significant discount for in-staters (33k vs 40k)...so I really think that Illinois residents don't flock to Illinois in as large numbers as they do to Wisconsin, Iowa, Indiana and some other discounted state schools. Self selection may not play as large a role for Illinois as one might think...I think they just really place into Chicago biglaw a lot, and not very much elsewhere in the country (reinforced by their relatively small Alumni base in other large cities like SF, NYC and DC)

[letsgo]

I get the feeling that it's harder to crack Chicago with a WUSTL degree than people on this boards make it sound. Perhaps it's not as bad as its reputation on AutoAdmit, but I turned down a similar scholarship offer at WUSTL to ride out wait-lists or reapply next year.

Therefore, Illinois.

Edit: Grammar fail

WUSTL places people in V20 firms. They place one or two per year into Kirkland & Ellis. Not a ton, but it places them there. Same with Illinois. At either school, you're going to be at least top 10% to place into V100, but you can still get placed there if you wish. WUSTL was also placing people into Skadden before ITE. The difference in numbers is self-selection. A lot of Illinois' class is in-state that want to practice in-state, and therefore it places a higher volume in Chicago, but you can get those same jobs from WUSTL.

I would normally agree with this for state schools, but Illinois hardly has a significant discount for in-staters (33k vs 40k)...so I really think that Illinois residents don't flock to Illinois in as large numbers as they do to Wisconsin, Iowa, Indiana and some other discounted state schools. Self selection may not play as large a role for Illinois as one might think...I think they just really place into Chicago biglaw a lot, and not very much elsewhere in the country (reinforced by their relatively small Alumni base in other large cities like SF, NYC and DC)

The last numbers i saw showed that about 51% of Illinois students are residents and about 40% of the graduates work outside of Chicago....that seems to reinforce the self selection argument.

[stratocophic]

Why would anyone think WashU has more portability than Illinois. I keep seeing that comment on this board. I personally think it is one of the most over-rated schools. I would understand ND having more portability...

http://law.wustl.edu/career_services/pa ... d=5506#geo
--LinkRemoved--
New England: WUSTL = 600% of UIUC
Mid-Atlantic (New York): WUSTL = 400% of UIUC
ENC (Chicago): WUSTL = 25% of UIUC
WNC: WUSTL = 700% of UIUC
South Atlantic (DC): WUSTL = 140% of UIUC
etc.

Some of it's likely Illinois residents self-selecting back to Chicago for UIUC and East Coasters self-selecting for NY and DC, but the numbers pretty clearly favor WashU. WashU even placed more grads on the West Coast, where TLSers believe UIUC holds at least a slight advantage.

Edit: That being said... go to Illinois if you're determined to work in Chicago, OP. WashU has a fallback option in the St. Louis market and may be somewhat "safer," but I'd follow the $ unless WashU or ND want to match.

[09042014]

Illinois. No question.

[quadsixm]

I was dinged from ND, WLed at UIUC, and held at WUSTL. I like WUSTL a bit better than UIUC, but for $30,000 difference, you'd be crazy to not go to Illinois.

[cubswin]

I was dinged from ND, WLed at UIUC, and held at WUSTL. I like WUSTL a bit better than UIUC, but for $30,000 difference, you'd be crazy to not go to Illinois.

WUSTL has nicer facilities and it's in a better location. They seem like peers in terms of educational quality. I'd still go to UIUC over WUSTL every time for Chicago Big Law. People in Chicago really respect UIUC, though I agree that most people outside the state don't really seem to give a shit about it.