Penn v. Temple($$$) v. Villanova($$$)

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Penn v. Temple($$$) v. Villanova($$$)

Penn
51
75%
Villanova
4
6%
Temple
13
19%
 
Total votes: 68

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x47point6
Posts: 101
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Penn v. Temple($$$) v. Villanova($$$)

Postby x47point6 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:14 pm

Criteria:

-Want to practice in Philly afterward (assume that I don’t care what kind of law)
-Want to be as well-off financially in the first few years out of law school as possible


Does Penn confer a significant advantage in the Philadelphia market? How risky is going to Penn at sticker and potentially not getting a Philadelphia job capable of paying for it plus COL loans? How risky is going to Villanova/Temple for free and not getting a job capable of paying for the COL loans?

motiontodismiss
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Re: Penn v. Temple($$$) v. Villanova($$$)

Postby motiontodismiss » Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:36 pm

Penn, without question.

Then again, I'm a prospective student. What do I know?

thistimereborn
Posts: 58
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Re: Penn v. Temple($$$) v. Villanova($$$)

Postby thistimereborn » Sun Mar 28, 2010 2:31 am

I go to Penn, and trust me, there is absolutely no question here.

No other law school in Pennsylvania can compete with Penn, and the gap is truly enormous.

If you want to work for a good biglaw firm in Philly and make a big paycheck after graduation, absolutely go to Penn. You should not have any problems getting one of the top firms in Philadelphia coming out of Penn because most Penn law grads leave the city. If you can show the employer that you're serious about living in Philadelphia long term, they will snatch you up.

It's probably possible to get a decent job coming out of Temple and Villanova, but you'll probably need to be at the top of the class. At Penn, even with average grades you should be set.

About the money, yes it is scary, but you will make it back before you know it, and you will have much more security with a Penn degree.

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Georgiana
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Re: Penn v. Temple($$$) v. Villanova($$$)

Postby Georgiana » Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:51 pm

thistimereborn wrote:It's probably possible to get a decent job coming out of Temple and Villanova, but you'll probably need to be at the top of the class. At Penn, even with average grades you should be set.

I go to Penn as well... and I disagree with this statement. A friend of mine was avg grades and FROM PHILLY and didn't get an offer from Philly firms. TBF the economy sucked and the Philly mkt is dead, but depending on the money, it might be worth it to go to Temple.
lawbreaker wrote:This is a little bit late, but I would say absolutely don't go to Penn at sticker. My brother is a lawyer in Philadelphia and he told me not to even apply to Penn since I want to work there. Most Penn grads go to NYC or DC. This means that you have a much stronger alumni network going to Temple or Nova.

My brother went to Rutgers-Camden Law, had a 3.6, and is working with Penn grads in Philly. They basically paid about $135,000 more (given a full scholarship to Camden and no money at Penn) to do the same thing they could have achieved for free.

This poster has a point as well. Very few people stay in Philly from Penn.

xyzzzzzzzz
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Re: Penn v. Temple($$$) v. Villanova($$$)

Postby xyzzzzzzzz » Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:55 pm

.
Last edited by xyzzzzzzzz on Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

splinter23x
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Re: Penn v. Temple($$$) v. Villanova($$$)

Postby splinter23x » Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:37 pm

lawbreaker wrote:This is a little bit late, but I would say absolutely don't go to Penn at sticker. My brother is a lawyer in Philadelphia and he told me not to even apply to Penn since I want to work there. Most Penn grads go to NYC or DC. This means that you have a much stronger alumni network going to Temple or Nova.

This isn't a serious post, I hope? We're talking about the OP's career here, this is not cool if you are flaming.

OP, please don't listen to this misinformation you are (my guess is deliberately) getting. There's no way a lawyer in Philadelphia who has a scintilla of honesty in his body would say Temple and Villanova are better than Penn for Philly. The commenter is either lying or his brother lawyer is a Temple/Nova grad with a serious chip on his shoulder about not getting into Penn/working under supervisors who graduated from Penn.

Penn is the 100% obvious choice here, there's really no discussion. It's an absolute, complete joke to say Penn doesn't have a strong network in Philly. Penn certainly sends a majority of its grads to New York and DC, but Penn simply runs Philly, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. Temple and Nova aren't in the same stratosphere.

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thecubiclelife
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Re: Penn v. Temple($$$) v. Villanova($$$)

Postby thecubiclelife » Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:36 pm

splinter23x wrote:
lawbreaker wrote:This is a little bit late, but I would say absolutely don't go to Penn at sticker. My brother is a lawyer in Philadelphia and he told me not to even apply to Penn since I want to work there. Most Penn grads go to NYC or DC. This means that you have a much stronger alumni network going to Temple or Nova.

This isn't a serious post, I hope? We're talking about the OP's career here, this is not cool if you are flaming.

OP, please don't listen to this misinformation you are (my guess is deliberately) getting. There's no way a lawyer in Philadelphia who has a scintilla of honesty in his body would say Temple and Villanova are better than Penn for Philly. The commenter is either lying or his brother lawyer is a Temple/Nova grad with a serious chip on his shoulder about not getting into Penn/working under supervisors who graduated from Penn.

Penn is the 100% obvious choice here, there's really no discussion. It's an absolute, complete joke to say Penn doesn't have a strong network in Philly. Penn certainly sends a majority of its grads to New York and DC, but Penn simply runs Philly, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. Temple and Nova aren't in the same stratosphere.


Actually, I don't think that lawbreaker is flaming. While there's a significant gap between Penn and Nova/Temple in terms of rankings, Temple and Nova have significant representation in Philly. My SO works with multiple bankruptcy law firms in the city and sees more of a weighting towards Nova/Temple at his lawyer/banker mixers. One of the lawyers (a Penn grad) even told my SO in a powwow that he regretted paying sticker at Penn since the Temple/Nova network is so robust.

Of course, all of my evidence is anecdotal and, like someone mentioned earlier, the Temple/Nova grads are probably top of their class vs. some flexibility with Penn. If it were me, I would ultimately go to Penn for the ranking. However, this is a difficult decision. If the OP is truly debt-averse, Nova/Temple with significant scholarship is hard to turn down.

Recommendation - Negotiate with Penn!

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pjo
Posts: 610
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Re: Penn v. Temple($$$) v. Villanova($$$)

Postby pjo » Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:48 pm

thecubiclelife wrote:
splinter23x wrote:
lawbreaker wrote:This is a little bit late, but I would say absolutely don't go to Penn at sticker. My brother is a lawyer in Philadelphia and he told me not to even apply to Penn since I want to work there. Most Penn grads go to NYC or DC. This means that you have a much stronger alumni network going to Temple or Nova.

This isn't a serious post, I hope? We're talking about the OP's career here, this is not cool if you are flaming.

OP, please don't listen to this misinformation you are (my guess is deliberately) getting. There's no way a lawyer in Philadelphia who has a scintilla of honesty in his body would say Temple and Villanova are better than Penn for Philly. The commenter is either lying or his brother lawyer is a Temple/Nova grad with a serious chip on his shoulder about not getting into Penn/working under supervisors who graduated from Penn.

Penn is the 100% obvious choice here, there's really no discussion. It's an absolute, complete joke to say Penn doesn't have a strong network in Philly. Penn certainly sends a majority of its grads to New York and DC, but Penn simply runs Philly, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. Temple and Nova aren't in the same stratosphere.


Actually, I don't think that lawbreaker is flaming. While there's a significant gap between Penn and Nova/Temple in terms of rankings, Temple and Nova have significant representation in Philly. My SO works with multiple bankruptcy law firms in the city and sees more of a weighting towards Nova/Temple at his lawyer/banker mixers. One of the lawyers (a Penn grad) even told my SO in a powwow that he regretted paying sticker at Penn since the Temple/Nova network is so robust.

Of course, all of my evidence is anecdotal and, like someone mentioned earlier, the Temple/Nova grads are probably top of their class vs. some flexibility with Penn. If it were me, I would ultimately go to Penn for the ranking. However, this is a difficult decision. If the OP is truly debt-averse, Nova/Temple with significant scholarship is hard to turn down.

Recommendation - Negotiate with Penn!


yea lawbreaker never said Nova and Temple are better schools than Penn, s/he just said if you're looking to stay in Philly, you may end up paying more for the same job prospects

splinter23x
Posts: 47
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 9:04 pm

Re: Penn v. Temple($$$) v. Villanova($$$)

Postby splinter23x » Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:12 am

pjo wrote:yea lawbreaker never said Nova and Temple are better schools than Penn, s/he just said if you're looking to stay in Philly, you may end up paying more for the same job prospects.

In other words, flame. Lurking through TLS I've seen some ridiculous suggestions, but none more absurd than Nova and Temple having the same job prospects as Penn in Philly. Nothing could be further from the truth, and it's really not fair to the OP who is trying to get honest advice.

Action Jackson
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Re: Penn v. Temple($$$) v. Villanova($$$)

Postby Action Jackson » Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:40 am

splinter23x wrote:
pjo wrote:yea lawbreaker never said Nova and Temple are better schools than Penn, s/he just said if you're looking to stay in Philly, you may end up paying more for the same job prospects.

In other words, flame. Lurking through TLS I've seen some ridiculous suggestions, but none more absurd than Nova and Temple having the same job prospects as Penn in Philly. Nothing could be further from the truth, and it's really not fair to the OP who is trying to get honest advice.

No, you are wrong. I'm another Penn law student here confirming that Philly firms actually favor the other law schools in the area. It sounds crazy, but years and years of Penn students leaving Philly for NYC has created a Philly job market dominated by Temple lawyers.

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x47point6
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Re: Penn v. Temple($$$) v. Villanova($$$)

Postby x47point6 » Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:02 am

It’s very difficult to get a fix on what the real situation is. I don’t think anyone’s flaming, but I think because Nova and Temple grads almost invariably stay in Philly or thereabouts, and Penn grads almost invariably leave Philly, the data that we’re working with is somewhat skewed. Essentially it comes down to this, though:

Nova/Temple Pros: Free, good alumni network in Philly, doing well will be easier here than doing well at Penn <--probably not true
Nova/Temple Cons: If I do poorly I can’t get a job anywhere, will drown in COL loans

Penn Pros: Semi-free, nationally prestigious, might grant better prospects at biglaw maybe even in Philly
Penn Cons: If I do poorly I’ll probably have to move out of Philly, or maybe simply drown in COL+100k loans, doing well will be harder at Penn <--true?

Did I miss anything?

I made a deal with myself that if it came down to Penn sticker v. Villanova full-ride, I’d go with Villanova unless I found some outstanding reason (such as the advice of peers and lawyers) not to. Luckily, since starting this thread it’s become more like Penn $ v. Villanova $$$, and the other deal I’d made with myself was that under such scenario I’d default to Penn.

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mikeyp
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Re: Penn v. Temple($$$) v. Villanova($$$)

Postby mikeyp » Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:29 pm

x47point6 wrote:How risky is going to Villanova/Temple for free and not getting a job capable of paying for the COL loans?

If you do well, you will find a job. But that applies to every school. Take the money!




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