UVA v. GULC $$ Forum

[D Brooks]

Half-tuition at Georgetown vs. sticker at UVA. I spoke with UVA admissions and they said they would work on getting me $$ but for now it's a no.

I visited UVA and liked the school a lot. The only negative was the homogeneity of the student body which is what I'm used to from high school, UG, etc. Not necessarily a bad thing but it'd be nice to have a different atmosphere.

I'll be visiting Georgetown this week. I used to live in DC and love it but hate Georgetown's class size and seemingly diminished career prospects.

Right now, I'm looking at $200k in debt with UVA vs. $120k with Georgetown.

A partner (and former SCOTUS clerk) at an elite lit boutique told me that it was a tough decision but he'd probably go to UVA based on my goals if he were in my position. Ideally, my career trajectory would be clerkship -> biglaw/lit boutique -> DOJ/USAO. I'd prefer to work in Chicago, but NYC or DC would be fine too.

What to do?

[Puffy]

In your shoes, I would choose GULC, but it has a lot to do with, as you say, the rather uninteresting student life at UVA, which I experienced first hand as an UG.

Also, I don't think the class size of UVA is that much smaller than GULC's.

[TaiRuiJin]

0L speaking here, but it seems UVA > GULC in terms of clerkships. As far as Chicago's market goes, I'm guessing your class ranking would be a bigger dictator than the schools' rankings--they're so close together (10 vs 14). As for DC, I'm thinking they're pretty close too. GULC is in DC, which helps, but UVA supposedly has a great DC reputation. I voted UVA because of the slight bump in prestige and clerkship options. But for clerkship, big law, then DOJ, I think you've got to slam dunk law school at either place... And add the money into the mix, GULC might be better. But lower cost of living in Virginia might close the cost gap a little bit. Result of my ramblings: ?

[D Brooks]

Thanks for the replies thus far!

Two quick notes:
-I have 7k in UG debt so I don't have too much excess loan baggage I'll be taking to law school.
-The partner I spoke with is at a lit boutique in DC. He referred to the T12 (excluding Cornell and GULC) which worries me since DC is Georgetown's primary market.

[TheBigMediocre]

The big question you're going to have to ask yourself is, "Do I want to go to a school that will still be in the T-14 when I graduate?"

[beef wellington]

I voted for UVA since it would clearly be better for your career goals, IMO that ouweighs the QOL factors over the next 3 years, and the $80k.

[D Brooks]

One more thing: I did like my visit to UVA and enjoyed the people I hung out with... just thought it might be nice to experience a different scene for this next phase of my life. However, If I went to UVA, I know I'd enjoy my time there. Additionally, if $$ were equal, I'd pick UVA. But it's not, hence my dilemma.

[lakerfanimal]

One more thing: I did like my visit to UVA and enjoyed the people I hung out with... just thought it might be nice to experience a different scene for this next phase of my life. However, If I went to UVA, I know I'd enjoy my time there. Additionally, if $$ were equal, I'd pick UVA. But it's not, hence my dilemma.

This is going to sound a little cheesy, but the career path that you want (shots are incredibly long obviously) is such that you'll make enough money to negate this small short-term difference IF you are successful. So if you believe in yourself enough, go with UVA because clerkship wise it seems like there's a definitive advantage to it.

[wackjickham]

I too count the homogeneity of UVA's student body as one of the biggest negatives in my decision currently. However, upon visiting Georgetown, the composition of the student body didnt seem all that different than UVA's to me (on the whole). Make your own decisions for yourself, but if that's a main factor don't expect to be blown away by Georgetown.

[D Brooks]

BUMP!

[A Swift]

I too count the homogeneity of UVA's student body as one of the biggest negatives in my decision currently.

Why is that a negative for you (and others)?

[wackjickham]

I too count the homogeneity of UVA's student body as one of the biggest negatives in my decision currently.

Why is that a negative for you (and others)?

I went to an EXTREMELY homogeneous high school and EXTREMELY homogeneous undergrad. I'm sort of sick of being around the same type of people all the time and enjoy seeing different perspectives of others based on different experiences.

It's not something I can articulate all that well, just a feeling that I want law school to be a new experience for me and not the same thing I've always known, if that makes sense. I know that law school will be a new challenge wherever but I like the idea of having a diverse student body. I'm beginning to understand why URMs are in such high demand.

[Puffy]

I too count the homogeneity of UVA's student body as one of the biggest negatives in my decision currently.

Why is that a negative for you (and others)?

Because I'm not a member of that club.

[D Brooks]

So the consensus is UVA? Even with $80k difference that translates into an additional 3yrs of $4k/month payments?

[09042014]

Isn't half tuition like 75K over three years?

Take the money.

[Muckduck]

I voted UVA because I went to the ASD on Friday and was blown away. Amazing place.

Keep in mind that Georgetown is awesome as well. Career goals ought to be the greatest factor when making this choice. At the end of the day, if you graduate high enough in either of those classes, you can land the same job. If you are debt averse and plan on busting your butt, G-town may be the right choice.

[D Brooks]

Isn't half tuition like 75K over three years?

Take the money.

66k

[09042014]

So the consensus is UVA? Even with $80k difference that translates into an additional 3yrs of $4k/month payments?

Old 2006 data for V100 placement, current and old NLJ250 data all suggest UVA = Gtown - 10% their class.

Is being able to be 10% lower in your class worth 80K? Probably not.

Also being black means you've got an easier chance getting a firm job even if you fuck up.

I'd take the money.

[D Brooks]

I voted UVA because I went to the ASD on Friday and was blown away. Amazing place.

Keep in mind that Georgetown is awesome as well. Career goals ought to be the greatest factor when making this choice. At the end of the day, if you graduate high enough in either of those classes, you can land the same job. If you are debt averse and plan on busting your butt, G-town may be the right choice.

I liked it a lot too and the unanimous perspective from ALL the students I talked to were that they loved going to school there.

[D Brooks]

Anyone have a link to a good debt repayment calculator? The first few ones that show up on Google aren't that great.

[D Brooks]

So the consensus is UVA? Even with $80k difference that translates into an additional 3yrs of $4k/month payments?

Old 2006 data for V100 placement, current and old NLJ250 data all suggest UVA = Gtown - 10% their class.

Is being able to be 10% lower in your class worth 80K? Probably not.

Also being black means you've got an easier chance getting a firm job even if you fuck up.

I'd take the money.

Thanks for the info.

[Kohinoor]

Also being black means you've got an easier chance getting a firm job even if you fuck up.

OR DOES IT???

[D Brooks]

Also being black means you've got an easier chance getting a firm job even if you fuck up.

OR DOES IT???

It doesn't?!

[gilchristh]

I'm admittedly biased, so I voted for GULC, but to address your concerns:

Yes, Georgetown Law has a large student body. What you should keep in mind, however, is that we are our own campus. The entire campus is less than 2,000 people, and while you have 110-115 people in your large section classes, you have the same 110-115 people in each of those classes. For better or worse, you will know the overwhelming majority of your section very well very quickly. You'll also have 1-2 small section classes each semester your first year (24-35 people in Legal Research & Writing all year, and whatever semester-long class your section has as its particular small section class).

Without going into detail about the more obvious social benefits of a large student body (genuine diversity of ages/backgrounds/experiences/ethnicities/etc., 65+ student organizations and counting, and more), you should definitely consider the more traditional benefits. Your curriculum options at Georgetown are ridiculous. We either have the most or the second most curriculum offerings of any law school. Upper division seminars sometimes have as few as 8 people in them. Professors are ridiculously accessible and very helpful. We have TWO separate, dedicated career offices--one regular career office and one focused specifically on public interest work, which is particularly relevant for your particular career goals. We have 11 journals, 12 clinic, and several "teams" (Moot Court, two Mock Trial teams, Alternative Dispute Resolution, etc.). Basically, there's enough to do here that you can find your own way to distinguish yourself in ways that are meaningful to your particular career objectives. I don't know ANY 3Ls who don't have jobs (but then again, that's not to say that there aren't some around).

We also have access to internships and jobs in the federal government during the school year. The Capitol building and the Supreme Court mere blocks away. The Supreme Court Institute. Living legends in the legal field on campus weekly. You just don't get access like this anywhere else.

The best part is that we have a tremendous amount of support and a genuinely cool student body. As our own campus, we have our own administration and facilities (including a kick@ss fitness center). The faculty, staff, and administration really bend over backwards to make us happy, and they do a pretty darn good job of it. I sincerely enjoy my classmates, even those of differing political beliefs. It does not feel like a large school. At all. Ever.

Considering how much cheaper it would be for you to come here, I honestly can't believe this is even a debate. But I know it's a tough decision, and I wish you the best of luck in making it. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to hit me up for more information.

P.S.--I have nothing bad to say at all about UVa, but I did go visit. The town is pretty, but the school is very preppy, very young, and very much the only thing happening within an hour's drive.

[beef wellington]

I'm admittedly biased, so I voted for GULC, but to address your concerns:

Yes, Georgetown Law has a large student body. What you should keep in mind, however, is that we are our own campus. The entire campus is less than 2,000 people, and while you have 110-115 people in your large section classes, you have the same 110-115 people in each of those classes. For better or worse, you will know the overwhelming majority of your section very well very quickly. You'll also have 1-2 small section classes each semester your first year (24-35 people in Legal Research & Writing all year, and whatever semester-long class your section has as its particular small section class).

Without going into detail about the more obvious social benefits of a large student body (genuine diversity of ages/backgrounds/experiences/ethnicities/etc., 65+ student organizations and counting, and more), you should definitely consider the more traditional benefits. Your curriculum options at Georgetown are ridiculous. We either have the most or the second most curriculum offerings of any law school. Upper division seminars sometimes have as few as 8 people in them. Professors are ridiculously accessible and very helpful. We have TWO separate, dedicated career offices--one regular career office and one focused specifically on public interest work, which is particularly relevant for your particular career goals. We have 11 journals, 12 clinic, and several "teams" (Moot Court, two Mock Trial teams, Alternative Dispute Resolution, etc.). Basically, there's enough to do here that you can find your own way to distinguish yourself in ways that are meaningful to your particular career objectives. I don't know ANY 3Ls who don't have jobs (but then again, that's not to say that there aren't some around).

We also have access to internships and jobs in the federal government during the school year. The Capitol building and the Supreme Court mere blocks away. The Supreme Court Institute. Living legends in the legal field on campus weekly. You just don't get access like this anywhere else.

The best part is that we have a tremendous amount of support and a genuinely cool student body. As our own campus, we have our own administration and facilities (including a kick@ss fitness center). The faculty, staff, and administration really bend over backwards to make us happy, and they do a pretty darn good job of it. I sincerely enjoy my classmates, even those of differing political beliefs. It does not feel like a large school. At all. Ever.

Considering how much cheaper it would be for you to come here, I honestly can't believe this is even a debate. But I know it's a tough decision, and I wish you the best of luck in making it. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to hit me up for more information.

P.S.--I have nothing bad to say at all about UVa, but I did go visit. The town is pretty, but the school is very preppy, very young, and very much the only thing happening within an hour's drive.

Wow you make Georgetown sound great. Are you focused on PI? I have some questions I'd like to PM you if you wouldn't mind.