Would you go to Cornell at sticker? Forum

[CyLaw]

Clerkships are likely due to self selection.

As opposed to big law...? Clerkships are by far the most prestigious jobs you can get straight out of law school. They require the highest grades (usually top 15%) plus recommendations. They also open up doors for the DOJ and other prestigious federal jobs, which require clerkships to be considered as a serious applicant.

I'm not saying that Cornell students would do better at Clerkship interviews than Yale students, I am just saying that students that go to cornell probably self select into New York Big Law than anything else.

Clerkships may be more prestigious and may lead to better DOJ opportunities, but if someone is pursuing money, then why not just go straight into Big Law?

Cornell also only has 4-6 people per year go into PI, that doesn't mean it is a bad school for PI. Just that most Cornell students don't select to go PI

Edit. Also 17 out of 195 Cornell grads last year got clerkships.

[fortissimo]

Clerkships are likely due to self selection.

As opposed to big law...? Clerkships are by far the most prestigious jobs you can get straight out of law school. They require the highest grades (usually top 15%) plus recommendations. They also open up doors for the DOJ and other prestigious federal jobs, which require clerkships to be considered as a serious applicant.

I'm not saying that Cornell students would do better at Clerkship interviews than Yale students, I am just saying that students that go to cornell probably self select into New York Big Law than anything else.

Clerkships may be more prestigious and may lead to better DOJ opportunities, but if someone is pursuing money, then why not just go straight into Big Law?

Cornell also only has 4-6 people per year go into PI, that doesn't mean it is a bad school for PI. Just that most Cornell students don't select to go PI

Edit. Also 17 out of 195 Cornell grads last year got clerkships.

Because, at least in the past anyway, if you pursue a clerkship for a year and then work for a biglaw firm, you get a much larger bonus as a first year associate and you start working at a higher position. Many people with top grades pursue clerkships and then work in biglaw right afterwards.

I think having so few go into PI may suggest that its LRAP is bad.

[CyLaw]

I think having so few go into PI may suggest that its LRAP is bad.

Not the best LRAP, but it is good enough for me based on the calculations I have made.

[beesknees]

No, I would not.

I'm sorry, but the self-selection argument for why Cornell sucks hard at clerkships or why it has such low amounts of grads in PI rings hollow. Anyone could make a similar argument for any school. For example, a person could say "Oh, I never was interested in SCOTUS." Doesn't mean that person ever had a chance, but that person "self-selected" out of it.

Even if I wasn't in at Mich, I'd take Vandy any day over Cornell (better weather, wider geographic dispersion of graduates and more varied type of employment, more competitive class (in terms of GPA/LSAT of entering classes). Especially considering Vandy seems to be pretty generous with $ and has slightly cheaper tuition. But then again, I'm not going to die if I don't get NYC biglaw or a T14-or-bust type person.

[doinmybest]

Even if I wasn't in at Mich, I'd take Vandy any day over Cornell (better weather, wider geographic dispersion of graduates and more varied type of employment, more competitive class (in terms of GPA/LSAT of entering classes). Especially considering Vandy seems to be pretty generous with $ and has slightly cheaper tuition. But then again, I'm not going to die if I don't get NYC biglaw or a T14-or-bust type person.

This.

[FlightoftheEarls]

I think it says an incredible amount about the pervading mentality of TLSers, especially compared to the rest of potential law school applicants across the country, that we have a poll where nearly 40% of our board claims it would not be willing to cough up the full tuition price for an Ivy League law school education.

Very interesting.

[heyguys]

Not a chance I would do Cornell for sticker--the problem is that even with the NLJ data, the groups not included from, say, Columbia, may still be doing something worthwhile. I have to imagine that a lot of Cornell grads are regretting the decision to pay sticker.

Then again, I'm debt-averse and wouldn't go to Columbia for sticker either. I'm attending a school for near-sticker at present, and a huge part of me really regrets the decision.

[KMaine]

Am attending Cornell (disclaimer) not at sticker. I voted "yes," but it is hard to say whether I would have taken Cornell at sticker, because everyting was in the context of other offers that I had. And they actually gave me more $ than many non-t-14s (like Vandy), and the other t-14 options I had.

I would probably not do a clerkship if I had the chance, but I am a little older, so want to get back to work ASAP, so that did not enter into the equation for me. From my research, the job options at firms were pretty comparable to other t-14 schools. If you are going to try to get a firm job, it is pretty arbitrary to say that you would go to UVA (or Michigan, Duke, Penn, etc.) for sticker but not Cornell. It seems crazy to say, "I would spend $150K for a 50% chance at BigLaw, but not a 45% chance" (especially when you figure that it would arguably be easier to finish in the top 45% at the second school than in the top 50% at the first school (numbers are for the sake of argument).

Of course you should consider whether it is wise to spend that much money (I thought about it quite a bit). But c'mon people, there are people out there spending sticker at tier 2s.

[Ragged]

If worst came to worst and it was the highest ranked school I could get into, yes.

[insidethetwenty]

It's all relative to whatever other scholarship options/school options I had. If I had 1/2 tuition or better at Vandy or Texas and I didn't want to work in NYC (or really wanted to work in the South/Texas) I would probably take one of those. If I was accepted at Duke, I'd go to to Duke sticker over Cornell sticker.

Simply put, if I wanted NYC BigLaw or a Clerkship, had no other T-14 acceptances save Georgetown, then yes, I'd pay sticker at Cornell. If I wanted to work in the South, didn't care about clerking, etc., then I would probably go to Vandy/Texas at half price.

[acdisagod]

Absolutely, if you know you are willing to work hard while you are there. I can graduate undergrad and make 30,000 or I can graduate law school and have a 60/40 shot at making 160,000 or 50-60k if I do shitlaw or government.

Full disclosure: currently deciding between Gtown/Cornell at sticker, but waiting for aid.

[KMaine]

Absolutely, if you know you are willing to work hard while you are there. I can graduate undergrad and make 30,000 or I can graduate law school and have a 60/40 shot at making 160,000 or 50-60k if I do shitlaw or government.

Full disclosure: currently deciding between Gtown/Cornell at sticker, but waiting for aid.

Wait for aid, then go to Cornell.

[acdisagod]

I was thinking about it but now leaning toward gtown. D.C. internships+government jobs ftw

[KMaine]

Good luck wherever you go. I think there are some major differences between the schools (size, location, etc.). I know a couple of people in my class who are working for the DOJ in D.C. this summer, though, so don't let that be the only factor you consider. Sorry to take over the thread.

[Apple Tree]

No. Even before my UVA scholarship came in, I was planning on going to UT/Vandy (half tuition) over Cornell (sticker). IMO, the only schools worth paying sticker for are YHS (S if you want to work in California). $150k is just too much debt to get into, at least for me. The thing is, even T-14 graduates don't have job security now. What if you get into that much debt and can't find a job that pays $130k a year?

[mbw]

I wasn't willing to go to Cornell at sticker. I'm pretty sure I was being an idiot.

[td6624]

I don't think I would attend anywhere outside of the T6 for sticker (this is taking into account money offered from Vandy and GW). So no, I would not, but I wouldn't tell someone they were making a bad decision by doing it either. It just depends on how comfortable you are with debt loads. It's a lot of money, but it'd be hard to call it a "bad" investment.

Also I wouldn't be too psyched about living in Ithaca for three years...

[rayiner]

Clerkships are likely due to self selection.

As opposed to big law not being self-selection...? Clerkships are by far the most prestigious jobs you can get straight out of law school. They require the highest grades (usually top 15%) plus recommendations. They also open up doors for the DOJ and other prestigious federal jobs, which require clerkships to be considered as a serious applicant.

A primary reason why you don't see people considering clerkships is because they don't have the grades to make the cut. If I were top 15% I would definitely make clerkships my number one choice for post-graduate employment.

There are lot's of people who don't want to give up a year's biglaw salary to do a clerkship.

Also: big talk for a 0L...

[rayiner]

Because, at least in the past anyway, if you pursue a clerkship for a year and then work for a biglaw firm, you get a much larger bonus as a first year associate and you start working at a higher position. Many people with top grades pursue clerkships and then work in biglaw right afterwards.

Even with a $50k clerkship bonus you're still down $60k relative to going into biglaw directly.