Harvard v Columbia v NYU ($$$?)

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c0rpusdelicti
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Harvard v Columbia v NYU ($$$?)

Postby c0rpusdelicti » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:39 pm

It seems that I have a slew of difficult choices to make pretty quickly. Given that I wouldn't even have these choices without TLS, I thought it fitting that I ask for more help.

- I really want to go into public interest or government work. BigLaw seems like Hell to me.

- NYC is my favorite city, and I already have friends there. In contrast, I know no one in the Boston/Cambridge area. I am worried about the higher cost of living in NYC, though.

- I have absolutely no reservations about taking out loans to pay for Harvard. However, I am concerned that I may not be able to secure loans due to credit concerns. I have an interview next week for one of NYU's named scholarships. I received unfortunate news recently, that I have to move within a month. I am concerned about the logistics of taking a week off of work to travel to the interview/NYU at this time when I'm going to already have to take more time off to move.

-At the same time, I am aware of how helpful a full-ride at NYU would be in terms of financial aid negotiation leverage. I also have a full-ride at UVA, but I suspect that may be a little less useful.

Right now, I'm definitely leaning towards attending Harvard no matter the cost, as long as I can find a way to pay for it. But I'm still a little indecisive and worried about making the wrong choice. Any advice?

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dudester
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Re: Harvard v Columbia v NYU ($$$?)

Postby dudester » Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:09 pm

c0rpusdelicti wrote:[strike]It seems that I have a slew of difficult choices to make pretty quickly. Given that I wouldn't even have these choices without TLS, I thought it fitting that I ask for more help.

- I really want to go into public interest or government work. BigLaw seems like Hell to me.[/strike]
[strike]- NYC is my favorite city, and I already have friends there. In contrast, I know no one in the Boston/Cambridge area. I am worried about the higher cost of living in NYC, though.[/strike]

[strike]- I have absolutely no reservations about taking out loans to pay for[/strike]Harvard. [strike]However, I am concerned that I may not be able to secure loans due to credit concerns. I have an interview next week for one of NYU's named scholarships. I received unfortunate news recently, that I have to move within a month. I am concerned about the logistics of taking a week off of work to travel to the interview/NYU at this time when I'm going to already have to take more time off to move.[/strike]

[strike]-At the same time, I am aware of how helpful a full-ride at NYU would be in terms of financial aid negotiation leverage. I also have a full-ride at UVA, but I suspect that may be a little less useful.[/strike]

[strike]Right now, I'm definitely leaning towards attending[/strike]Harvard [strike]no matter the cost, as long as I can find a way to pay for it. But I'm still a little indecisive and worried about making the wrong choice. Any advice?[/strike]

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gossipgirl
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Re: Harvard v Columbia v NYU ($$$?)

Postby gossipgirl » Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:11 pm

^ Why not NYU at full tuition for PI?

lawyering
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Re: Harvard v Columbia v NYU ($$$?)

Postby lawyering » Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:12 pm

I have heard that Harvard doesn't negotiate with students who have Hamiltons/RTK scholarships/etc. It would seem to me that there's no point in taking the time/energy to interview for NYU if you plan to go to Harvard anyway. I'd spend the time looking at housing options and digging up some outside scholarships.

That said, NYU for PI is fantastic--do the interview if you're even considering NYU as an option.

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Dignan
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Re: Harvard v Columbia v NYU ($$$?)

Postby Dignan » Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:26 pm

Harvard v Columbia v NYU ($$$?)

I won't weigh in on the difficult Harvard vs. NYU w/$$$ choice, but I will say that Columbia at sticker shouldn't even be part of this discussion. And I say this as someone who prefers CLS to NYU. The two schools are just way too similar to turn down $$$ at one in order to pay sticker at the other.

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thrillhouse
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Re: Harvard v Columbia v NYU ($$$?)

Postby thrillhouse » Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:34 pm

If you get a full-ride at NYU, take it. If you don't, NYU should be choice #3 for you. Also, you should contact Columbia. If NYU is considering you for a PI scholarship, Columbia may as well. I know they have a few full tuition fellowships for PI.

BigLawyer
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Re: Harvard v Columbia v NYU ($$$?)

Postby BigLawyer » Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:05 pm

Harvard. It's that good. The name alone will get you into a significant number of interviews without any consideration for your gpa.

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coollegemex
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Re: Harvard v Columbia v NYU ($$$?)

Postby coollegemex » Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:12 pm

Someone mentioned this but Harvard doesn't really care about full rides to NYU/CLS

I have the Hamilton and an interview next week at NYU for $$$ and Harvard's finaid basically told me to not "sell my future for my present."

True HLS opens doors but to just blindly count on the HLS brand... I don't buy it. If I can walk away with a T5 legal education and little to no debt (with outside $) versus the substantial debt ALL Harvard grads carry... well the decision just isn't as clear to me.

Tofu
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Re: Harvard v Columbia v NYU ($$$?)

Postby Tofu » Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:24 pm

hm
Last edited by Tofu on Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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1armedscissor
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Re: Harvard v Columbia v NYU ($$$?)

Postby 1armedscissor » Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:28 pm

NYU definitely. Among the best in T14 for PI work. Greenwich Village is a much cooler part of NYC than Morningside Heights, blech. Yes, Harvard is a good name, but NYU is too. If you want to live or work in the city after graduation, the lack of debt will be enormously helpful.

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AngryAvocado
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Re: Harvard v Columbia v NYU ($$$?)

Postby AngryAvocado » Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:44 pm

This isn't an easy decision, even with a full ride (which is more like a 2/3 ride when you factor in COL at NYU). You're probably still looking at 60k+ over three years just to live in/around the Village.

If you were just gunning for biglaw, I'd probably say take the money and run. However, while NYU has a reputation for PI (and government to a lesser extent) relative to it's peers, it still pales in comparison to HLS. To me, the combination of HLS superior reputation for PI/government+awesome LARP+much cheaper COL make it the better option. If you get a qualifying job, you'll only be paying back a fraction of those loans anyhow.

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adameus
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Re: Harvard v Columbia v NYU ($$$?)

Postby adameus » Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:50 pm

AngryAvocado wrote:This isn't an easy decision, even with a full ride (which is more like a 2/3 ride when you factor in COL at NYU). You're probably still looking at 60k+ over three years just to live in/around the Village.

If you were just gunning for biglaw, I'd probably say take the money and run. However, while NYU has a reputation for PI (and government to a lesser extent) relative to it's peers, it still pales in comparison to HLS. To me, the combination of HLS superior reputation for PI/government+awesome LARP+much cheaper COL make it the better option. If you get a qualifying job, you'll only be paying back a fraction of those loans anyhow.



I'm pretty sure NYU's LRAP is better than Harvards, can someone confirm? Other than that I agree with your post.

imchuckbass58
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Re: Harvard v Columbia v NYU ($$$?)

Postby imchuckbass58 » Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:52 pm

First off, Columbia shouldn't be in this discussion unless they offer you a full ride or close to it.

It's a tough call between NYU and Harvard, but I'd choose Harvard. I think some people on this thread are overestimating the differential in job prospects (I know 2Ls at Harvard and their friends near the bottom of the class are having lots of trouble too), but there is a difference. In addition, if you trule are committed to PI/gov't, the LRAP will shrink a lot of the cost differential.

I'd really think about how strong your commitment to PI/gov't is. Biglaw "sounds like hell" to many people, and I'd estimate that even at Columbia the majority of people plan on doing PI/gov't when they come in 1L year. But for many reasons (financial/supporting a family, realizing that many of the jobs kind of suck, realizing how hard it is to get a PI/gov't job you like fresh out of school) most of them end up doing biglaw.

If you're truly committed to PI/gov't and are sure you won't be swayed, then go to Harvard.

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Dignan
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Re: Harvard v Columbia v NYU ($$$?)

Postby Dignan » Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:52 pm

adameus wrote:

I'm pretty sure NYU's LRAP is better than Harvards, can someone confirm? Other than that I agree with your post.

Yes, no question. HLS's LRAP is among the weakest in the T10.

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rayiner
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Re: Harvard v Columbia v NYU ($$$?)

Postby rayiner » Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:53 pm

Harvard.

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AngryAvocado
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Re: Harvard v Columbia v NYU ($$$?)

Postby AngryAvocado » Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:07 pm

Dignan wrote:
adameus wrote:

I'm pretty sure NYU's LRAP is better than Harvards, can someone confirm? Other than that I agree with your post.

Yes, no question. HLS's LRAP is among the weakest in the T10.


I never claimed it's better than NYU's, but it's still a pretty great program. Plus, if he fulfills certain requirements and commits to public interest for 5 years, HLS pays his 3rd year tuition.

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Dignan
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Re: Harvard v Columbia v NYU ($$$?)

Postby Dignan » Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:10 pm

AngryAvocado wrote:
Dignan wrote:
adameus wrote:

I'm pretty sure NYU's LRAP is better than Harvards, can someone confirm? Other than that I agree with your post.

Yes, no question. HLS's LRAP is among the weakest in the T10.


I never claimed it's better than NYU's, but it's still a pretty great program. Plus, if he fulfills certain requirements and commits to public interest for 5 years, HLS pays his 3rd year tuition.

I thought that HLS just ended that benefit. Or am I thinking of something else?

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ConMan345
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Re: Harvard v Columbia v NYU ($$$?)

Postby ConMan345 » Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:14 pm

Dignan wrote:
AngryAvocado wrote:
Dignan wrote:
adameus wrote:

I'm pretty sure NYU's LRAP is better than Harvards, can someone confirm? Other than that I agree with your post.

Yes, no question. HLS's LRAP is among the weakest in the T10.


I never claimed it's better than NYU's, but it's still a pretty great program. Plus, if he fulfills certain requirements and commits to public interest for 5 years, HLS pays his 3rd year tuition.

I thought that HLS just ended that benefit. Or am I thinking of something else?


Yes, it's been replaced with this:

http://www.law.harvard.edu/news/2010/02 ... .fund.html

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AngryAvocado
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Re: Harvard v Columbia v NYU ($$$?)

Postby AngryAvocado » Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:15 pm

Dignan wrote:
AngryAvocado wrote:
Dignan wrote:
adameus wrote:

I'm pretty sure NYU's LRAP is better than Harvards, can someone confirm? Other than that I agree with your post.

Yes, no question. HLS's LRAP is among the weakest in the T10.


I never claimed it's better than NYU's, but it's still a pretty great program. Plus, if he fulfills certain requirements and commits to public interest for 5 years, HLS pays his 3rd year tuition.

I thought that HLS just ended that benefit. Or am I thinking of something else?


You're right. I stand corrected. Here's a link that details the new program, though.

Edit: Beaten to the punch.

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dbt
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Re: Harvard v Columbia v NYU ($$$?)

Postby dbt » Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:28 pm

Think of being a Root-Tilden as being one of the top ~20 PI kids at arguably the best PI school in the nation. Now I'm sure Harvard has a great PI program/LRAP, but personally I would turn down Harvard for a full-ride at NYU on a scholarship that is directly relevant to my career goals in a heartbeat.

Oh, and Columbia doesn't even deserve mention. Great school; not Harvard, no money offered, and no comparison to RTK at NYU.

PubIntBound
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Re: Harvard v Columbia v NYU ($$$?)

Postby PubIntBound » Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:33 pm

dbt wrote:Think of being a Root-Tilden as being one of the top ~20 PI kids at arguably the best PI school in the nation. Now I'm sure Harvard has a great PI program/LRAP, but personally I would turn down Harvard for a full-ride at NYU on a scholarship that is directly relevant to my career goals in a heartbeat.

Oh, and Columbia doesn't even deserve mention. Great school; not Harvard, no money offered, and no comparison to RTK at NYU.


While I agree that only you can know know what is right for you, the idea that you would be selling your future for the present if you took the Root is hilarious. The Root has an extensive network of highly intelligent, passionate and influential attorneys, many of whom turned down Harvard. Sorry Harvard.

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coollegemex
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Re: Harvard v Columbia v NYU ($$$?)

Postby coollegemex » Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:01 pm

So I was at HLS/CLS last week and I have to wonder where people are getting this notion that Cambridge is cheaper than nyc. My friends in cambridge were actually paying more for rent (around 1K) versus $700-800 in Harlem.

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AngryAvocado
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Re: Harvard v Columbia v NYU ($$$?)

Postby AngryAvocado » Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:08 pm

coollegemex wrote:So I was at HLS/CLS last week and I have to wonder where people are getting this notion that Cambridge is cheaper than nyc. My friends in cambridge were actually paying more for rent (around 1K) versus $700-800 in Harlem.


Harlem is a lot closer to CLS than NYU, if my understanding is correct. It might still be a viable option for NYU students, but if you're willing to commute that far, you could probably find some places for a hellova cheaper than 1k 20-30 minutes away from Harvard.

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Reedie
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Re: Harvard v Columbia v NYU ($$$?)

Postby Reedie » Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:19 pm

PubIntBound wrote:While I agree that only you can know know what is right for you, the idea that you would be selling your future for the present if you took the Root is hilarious. The Root has an extensive network of highly intelligent, passionate and influential attorneys, many of whom turned down Harvard. Sorry Harvard.


Does this mean that the RTK gives opportunities to recipients beyond the scholarship? if so, should non-RTK people worry about NYU focusing on helping RTK recipients get top quality PI work more than the rest of the class?

That might make NYU look a lot less appealing for me.

PubIntBound
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Re: Harvard v Columbia v NYU ($$$?)

Postby PubIntBound » Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:32 pm

Reedie wrote:
PubIntBound wrote:While I agree that only you can know know what is right for you, the idea that you would be selling your future for the present if you took the Root is hilarious. The Root has an extensive network of highly intelligent, passionate and influential attorneys, many of whom turned down Harvard. Sorry Harvard.


Does this mean that the RTK gives opportunities to recipients beyond the scholarship? if so, should non-RTK people worry about NYU focusing on helping RTK recipients get top quality PI work more than the rest of the class?

That might make NYU look a lot less appealing for me.


From what I can tell, the RTK scholars do have other programmatic activities that help foster community and networking. That being said, the public interest office seems to fight equally for everyone, and the public interest community at NYU is incredibly strong and dedicated. Since public interest jobs in large part are found by networks and tons of public interest practitioners went to NYU and unabashedly claim that they love hiring NYU students (some publicly claiming this is actually something they look for when hiring), I think it is safe to say that the public interest scholarships at NYU help everyone (by increasing the number of NYU public interest alums out there). I wouldn't be worried.




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