Help!! Best for Getting a Job

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Which one?

BU
12
40%
UCI
3
10%
USD
1
3%
IUB
6
20%
ND
3
10%
UCD
0
No votes
W&L
1
3%
GW
4
13%
 
Total votes: 30

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Veritas
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Help!! Best for Getting a Job

Postby Veritas » Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:41 pm

Let's screw geographic preferences. My number once concern is access to a wide range of employment opportunities (PI to Biglaw) in a major market (DC, California, Boston, Chicago, New York, whatever else). Which one of these gives me the best chance of getting a good job in a major market?

3yr totals (tuition and living expenses minus scholarships):

UCI: $117k
BU: $120k
UCD: $122k
USD: $104k
W&L: $80k
IUB: $39k
GW: $210 (still waiting on aid)
ND: $172k (negotiating aid)
Last edited by Veritas on Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:16 am, edited 9 times in total.

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Veritas
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Re: Help!! Best for So Cal?

Postby Veritas » Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:52 am

any words to explain your reasoning?

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richardfitzwell
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Re: Help!! Best for So Cal?

Postby richardfitzwell » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:03 am

I'd say UCI followed by ULCA if that happens for you. Did you take the $6,000,000 dollar per year tuition increase at the public school in CA into account? Is your tuition cost/ scholly a percentage or $ amount? Anywho I think you will be fine no matter which school you choose man. 8)

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capitalacq
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Re: Help!! Best for So Cal?

Postby capitalacq » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:04 am

insert word here

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Veritas
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Re: Help!! Best for So Cal?

Postby Veritas » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:05 am

richardfitzwell wrote:I'd say UCI followed by ULCA if that happens for you. Did you take the $6,000,000 dollar per year tuition increase at the public school in CA into account? Is your tuition cost/ scholly a percentage or $ amount? Anywho I think you will be fine no matter which school you choose man. 8)

I did account for tuition increases and the scholarships are $$ amounts except for UCI which is half of whatever it increases to.

thanks dick :D , nice seeing you around

My concern about UCI is that it's too public interest focused. While I could see myself going in that direction, I don't want to limit my options....

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cahesu
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Re: Help!! Best for So Cal?

Postby cahesu » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:06 am

UCI looks like they'll be putting together some great classes in the future if they can continue to be selective.

If I had a second vote to cast, I'd say Notre Dame. It's one of those schools with a very far-ranging and supportive alumni network, even in Southern California.

UCLAtransfer
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Re: Help!! Best for So Cal?

Postby UCLAtransfer » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:08 am

Nothing truly groundbreaking, but here are my thoughts:

Unless you get into UCLA, my vote is UCI. I know a lot of lawyers in OC and everyone is pretty excited about the school. I think if you want to stay in Southern California long-term, you should go to school there. I don't think this notion gets enough play on TLS, even for great schools like GW and BU. From what I have seen, hiring gets pretty regional even towards the lower end of the T14, especially ITE. This may not be as true in less sought-after markets, but a lot of people try to make it to CA and I think being here during school and demonstrating your commitment to the area will only help.

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richardfitzwell
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Re: Help!! Best for So Cal?

Postby richardfitzwell » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:13 am

Veritas wrote:
richardfitzwell wrote:I'd say UCI followed by ULCA if that happens for you. Did you take the $6,000,000 dollar per year tuition increase at the public school in CA into account? Is your tuition cost/ scholly a percentage or $ amount? Anywho I think you will be fine no matter which school you choose man. 8)

I did account for tuition increases and the scholarships are $$ amounts except for UCI which is half of whatever it increases to.

thanks dick :D , nice seeing you around

My concern about UCI is that it's too public interest focused. While I could see myself going in that direction, I don't want to limit my options....



Yeah good to see ya too man. If I were in your shoes my first choice would be IUB cause I'm debt adverse and $39K isn't bad and could be less since living in the Midwest is so cheap. I'd be concerned about UCI being too public interest focused too but I dont think will limit you to PI only. Heres to hopin you get into UCLA. I don't think you can go wrong where ever you choose you have some great schools to choose from. Good Luck.

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pany1985
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Re: Help!! Best for So Cal?

Postby pany1985 » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:25 am

I don't think UCI is going to limit you to public interest jobs. Some of the people here are definitely on a 100% public interest career path, but plenty of us aren't and some of us even have paying corporate definitely-not-public-interest summer gigs as 1Ls (not me though; I'm externing with a judge at the Court of Appeal in Santa Ana). If anything, I would guess the public-interest-only students not participating in biglaw OCI will make it easier for the open-to-corporate-jobs (or strongly-perferring-corporate-jobs) students to get interviews with all the firms they want. I can't give you any percentages or anything, but I don't get the sense that any law firms are going to be reluctant to hire UCI grads because of any percieved public interest focus.

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Veritas
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Re: Help!! Best for So Cal?

Postby Veritas » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:31 am

pany1985 wrote:I don't think UCI is going to limit you to public interest jobs. Some of the people here are definitely on a 100% public interest career path, but plenty of us aren't and some of us even have paying corporate definitely-not-public-interest summer gigs as 1Ls (not me though; I'm externing with a judge at the Court of Appeal in Santa Ana). If anything, I would guess the public-interest-only students not participating in biglaw OCI will make it easier for the open-to-corporate-jobs (or strongly-perferring-corporate-jobs) students to get interviews with all the firms they want. I can't give you any percentages or anything, but I don't get the sense that any law firms are going to be reluctant to hire UCI grads because of any percieved public interest focus.

^^^ thanks pany. I think my concern is mostly about the range of classes available...

do you have any info or expected class list for your 2L year?

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General Tso
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Re: Help!! Best for So Cal?

Postby General Tso » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:40 am

i vote UCD or UCI

i can't believe USD didn't offer you close to full tuition considering your other acceptances

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Veritas
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Re: Help!! Best for So Cal?

Postby Veritas » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:41 am

swheat wrote:i vote UCD or UCI

i can't believe USD didn't offer you close to full tuition considering your other acceptances

I asked for more, they said maybe later......

If they came through I would probably jump on it.

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OneKnight
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Re: Help!! Best for So Cal?

Postby OneKnight » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:42 am

I would go UCI if I were you, but I'm still pulling for you (and me :wink: ) to get into UCLA!!

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pany1985
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Re: Help!! Best for So Cal?

Postby pany1985 » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:46 am

Well this is the list of courses that they intend on eventually offering, although obviously not all in the same year.

http://law.uci.edu/registrar/curriculum_upper_level.html

There are no required upperclass courses, but I do know that everything listed near the top in the "General Courses" section is considered pretty fundamental and will be offered in the next two years so everyone in our class will have a chance to take them. Dean Chemerinsky has told us that as long as at least 5 or 6 people in our class want to take a course for next year, they'll figure out a way to offer it (either with an existing faculty member or an adjunct). Obviously next year's offerings will be fairly limited, since there'll only be 60 of us taking 2L courses, but things will expand after that mirroring the expansion in the size of the 2L/3L student population... so by the time you're a 2L/3L, there should be a fine selection in any of the areas of law listed on that page.

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General Tso
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Re: Help!! Best for So Cal?

Postby General Tso » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:48 am

Veritas wrote:
swheat wrote:i vote UCD or UCI

i can't believe USD didn't offer you close to full tuition considering your other acceptances

I asked for more, they said maybe later......

If they came through I would probably jump on it.


oh damn, Veritas...didn't realize this was your thread. guess i didnt recognize the new 'tar.

I really think UCI might be your best Cali choice. It'll still have the new school appeal to employers and at least you will have some financial aid there. I know it's hard to pass on so many highly ranked schools, but I am pretty sure UCI will have no problem breaking into the lower T1 and slowly moving up. It'll pass borderline schools like Cardozo easily and probably settle in the mid 30s around Hastings and Davis.

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Veritas
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Re: Help!! Best for So Cal?

Postby Veritas » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:51 am

^^^ lol, thanks swheat - maybe i need butters back?

I'm excited to visit UCI and see how it all works.

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Veritas
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Re: Help!! Best for So Cal?

Postby Veritas » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:52 am

OneKnight wrote:I would go UCI if I were you, but I'm still pulling for you (and me :wink: ) to get into UCLA!!

yes!!
pany1985 wrote:Well this is the list of courses that they intend on eventually offering, although obviously not all in the same year.

http://law.uci.edu/registrar/curriculum_upper_level.html

There are no required upperclass courses, but I do know that everything listed near the top in the "General Courses" section is considered pretty fundamental and will be offered in the next two years so everyone in our class will have a chance to take them. Dean Chemerinsky has told us that as long as at least 5 or 6 people in our class want to take a course for next year, they'll figure out a way to offer it (either with an existing faculty member or an adjunct). Obviously next year's offerings will be fairly limited, since there'll only be 60 of us taking 2L courses, but things will expand after that mirroring the expansion in the size of the 2L/3L student population... so by the time you're a 2L/3L, there should be a fine selection in any of the areas of law listed on that page.

oh, sweet. thanks for the link pany

pany, why is the library closed on Saturday?? IS that annoying?

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pany1985
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Re: Help!! Best for So Cal?

Postby pany1985 » Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:01 am

It was originally open Saturdays but nobody was using it so they decided to use their money more wisely and just not staff it on those days. It's all about demand. I personally barely ever go to the library. It's a fine library, but I've alway preferred to do my work at a desk in my apartment. All the research for 1L stuff can be done on Lexis and Westlaw. That said, they'll definitely have it open more days and longer hours next year with more students.

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Borhas
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Re: Help!! Best for So Cal?

Postby Borhas » Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:25 am

Since UCD and UCI are the same price for you, I don't think it'll come down to anything but a preference. I'd give a slight edge to UCI since it's already in So Cal. I'm not one who thinks UCI will start at 30 and move up from there. It'll probably be lower Tier 1 according to the rankings and probably hover around there. I think that they are peaking right now, class sizes will only get bigger, scholarship money will only get smaller, and less scholarly profs will have to be added to compensate for the bigger classes. BUT, if you enroll now you'll have all the advantages without the disadvantages of the future classes. Plus, the school will probably try it's best to help you get a job since there are so few students, and since it's only the second class.

$0.02

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Veritas
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Re: Help!! Best for So Cal?

Postby Veritas » Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:17 am

pany1985 wrote:It was originally open Saturdays but nobody was using it so they decided to use their money more wisely and just not staff it on those days. It's all about demand. I personally barely ever go to the library. It's a fine library, but I've alway preferred to do my work at a desk in my apartment. All the research for 1L stuff can be done on Lexis and Westlaw. That said, they'll definitely have it open more days and longer hours next year with more students.

That's good to know. Even if the law library isn't open are there others on campus that would be?

How does the law school interact with the rest of the campus? (sorry for the "taking questions" like approach I have here)

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UF Gators
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Re: Help!! Best for So Cal?

Postby UF Gators » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:05 pm

Borhas wrote:Since UCD and UCI are the same price for you, I don't think it'll come down to anything but a preference. I'd give a slight edge to UCI since it's already in So Cal. I'm not one who thinks UCI will start at 30 and move up from there. It'll probably be lower Tier 1 according to the rankings and probably hover around there. I think that they are peaking right now, class sizes will only get bigger, scholarship money will only get smaller, and less scholarly profs will have to be added to compensate for the bigger classes. BUT, if you enroll now you'll have all the advantages without the disadvantages of the future classes. Plus, the school will probably try it's best to help you get a job since there are so few students, and since it's only the second class.

$0.02

This is what I was thinking too. How good are you at networking? The low price tag at IUB is very tempting but I dont know how many students each year make it back to Cali. It seems most students stay in Indiana which isn't a good situation for you. It's hard to justify ND at that price considering the other scholarships you have received even with their alumni network. Right now I am leaning towards UCI since I believe they will work their asses off to get you a job since they are new. Hmmmm, tough choice.

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Veritas
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Re: Help!! Best for So Cal?

Postby Veritas » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:14 pm

UF Gators wrote:
Borhas wrote:Since UCD and UCI are the same price for you, I don't think it'll come down to anything but a preference. I'd give a slight edge to UCI since it's already in So Cal. I'm not one who thinks UCI will start at 30 and move up from there. It'll probably be lower Tier 1 according to the rankings and probably hover around there. I think that they are peaking right now, class sizes will only get bigger, scholarship money will only get smaller, and less scholarly profs will have to be added to compensate for the bigger classes. BUT, if you enroll now you'll have all the advantages without the disadvantages of the future classes. Plus, the school will probably try it's best to help you get a job since there are so few students, and since it's only the second class.

$0.02

This is what I was thinking too. How good are you at networking? The low price tag at IUB is very tempting but I dont know how many students each year make it back to Cali. It seems most students stay in Indiana which isn't a good situation for you. It's hard to justify ND at that price considering the other scholarships you have received even with their alumni network. Right now I am leaning towards UCI since I believe they will work their asses off to get you a job since they are new. Hmmmm, tough choice.

That's something I keep considering. I think I need to visit to make it all a little bit more real.

What I need is something between USC/UCLA and USD that serves the So Cal population and, I guess that is UCI.

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Veritas
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Re: Help!! Best for So Cal?

Postby Veritas » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:18 pm

arguments for USD?

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Great Satchmo
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Re: Help!! Best for So Cal?

Postby Great Satchmo » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:27 pm

Veritas wrote:arguments for USD?


For the cost, why would you choose it over UCI or UCD? I would assume both of those would allow more options.

USD is a good school, but I, personally, would go for:

1. UCI (would probably be a unique opportunity)
2. UCD (strong school that places throughout Cali)
3. ND (maybe not deserved, but it seems you can move around with that degree)
4. BU (solid school, may be harder to get back here, but it's a well-known school)
....

Just my $0.02 though.

keg411
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Re: Help!! Best for So Cal?

Postby keg411 » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:29 pm

Veritas wrote:arguments for USD?


USD is only good if you want a SoCal option that is more established than UCI. They are the same price. I do think UCI is probably your best bet in this case because they school is going to be in overdrive to make sure the first two classes not only get jobs, but get good jobs. They have a lot riding on UCI's success. So even if there is a drop-off in the future, it's not going to effect you.

The only two other options I would consider if I were you are IU-B and Notre Dame. First - does IU-B have any scholarship stipulations? If it does, forget it. If it's "Good Standing" than the debt is tempting if you are willing to either forgo SoCal or do a ton of legwork on your own to get back there. Notre Dame could get you back to SoCal, but you should only really consider it they lower the total $.

I would totally dismiss W&L (East Coast), GW (East Coast) and UCD (NorCal and no cheaper than UCI/USD). I would reconsider BU if are willing to forget about SoCal.




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