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(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
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Mattalones
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Postby Mattalones » Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:40 am

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im_blue
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Re: Fordham V Boston University

Postby im_blue » Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:42 am

Fordham is hurt by PT numbers. You should pick Fordham for NYC and BU for Boston, but I get the feeling that BU does better in NYC than Fordham does in Boston.

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Mattalones
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Re: Fordham V Boston University

Postby Mattalones » Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:43 am

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im_blue
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Re: Fordham V Boston University

Postby im_blue » Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:44 am

Mattalones wrote:
im_blue wrote:Fordham is hurt by PT numbers.

Do you mean to say that the employment numbers are understated for full time students, or that the rankings are understated because it has a PT program?

Rankings are understated because their LSAT/GPA numbers are dragged down by PT.
/IBOS

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Spaceman Spiff
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Re: Fordham V Boston University

Postby Spaceman Spiff » Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:45 am

Mattalones wrote:
im_blue wrote:Fordham is hurt by PT numbers.

Do you mean to say that the employment numbers are understated for full time students, or that the rankings are understated because it has a PT program?


The latter.

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Mattalones
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Re: Fordham V Boston University

Postby Mattalones » Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:48 am

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Xiaolong
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Re: Fordham v.s. Boston University

Postby Xiaolong » Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:53 am

Fordham if you are dead set on NYC. If that is not the case, BU is the better choice. It is a lot cheaper, has more of a national reach than Fordham, better faculty, and it is also better at PI pleacement and clerkships.

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Mattalones
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Re: Fordham v.s. Boston University

Postby Mattalones » Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:08 am

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Fordham v.s. Boston University

Postby OperaSoprano » Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:19 am

Xiaolong wrote:Fordham if you are dead set on NYC. If that is not the case, BU is the better choice. It is a lot cheaper, has more of a national reach than Fordham, better faculty, and it is also better at PI pleacement and clerkships.


I don't know that BU is a lot cheaper, unless you consider that the school has a larger endowment, and so historically has been able to give fairly generous scholarships. Both schools attract similarly excellent faculty due to their urban locations. In my experience, more of my classmates are interested in private practice (often biglaw), but Fordham has awesome support for PI students; I was able to get an internship in my second month of law school. When the economy was booming, Fordham grads were definitely self selecting for biglaw and away from clerkships.

According to a survey of incoming students, 96% of Fordham 1Ls want to practice in the NYC market. I suspected the number would be high, but that blew me away. BU grads disperse more, probably due to self selection. Like so many of my classmates, I'm happy where I am.

To more directly address the OP: BU and Fordham are peer schools. Blindmelon will tell you as much, and indeed he should be consulted for information on his school. When dealing with schools in this range, it makes sense to pick based on geography-- your networking opportunities matter a lot. Because I go to Fordham, I can intern in NYC every semester, and for me, that is invaluable. People like to boil down school selection to a formula, but it's really not that simple, and your personal happiness, and how you feel about a school, can have a significant impact on how well you do.

Xiaolong
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Re: Fordham v.s. Boston University

Postby Xiaolong » Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:26 am

Mattalones wrote:
Xiaolong wrote:Fordham if you are dead set on NYC. If that is not the case, BU is the better choice. It is a lot cheaper, has more of a national reach than Fordham, better faculty, and it is also better at PI pleacement and clerkships.

I don't really know if I am deadest on NYC. RIght now, I will go wherever is best if I have to leave CA. If I were to go into a different legal market than NYC, would the prospects be as good out of BU. Perhaps NYC out of Fordham will be a better (more sure market paying job) than any setup out of BU in another market. I don't know though. Anyone know about that topic?


In terms of placement, BU and Fordham are pretty similar, although in the most recent data, BU placed about 5% more people into biglaw than Fordham. (--LinkRemoved--)

Also, another difference is that BUs placement is more national(--LinkRemoved--) and BU co-dominates its market, while Fordham(--LinkRemoved--) is only good for NYC and faces competition from Columbia and NYU plus the rest of the T14.

So, for someone like you who is not yet set on a market I would think that BU will give you more flexibility. Also keep in mind that sticker at Fordham is like 210K, which IMO is a ridiculous price tag for a school of Fordham's rank.

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Re: Fordham v.s. Boston University

Postby Xiaolong » Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:32 am

OperaSoprano wrote:
Xiaolong wrote:Fordham if you are dead set on NYC. If that is not the case, BU is the better choice. It is a lot cheaper, has more of a national reach than Fordham, better faculty, and it is also better at PI pleacement and clerkships.


I don't know that BU is a lot cheaper, unless you consider that the school has a larger endowment, and so historically has been able to give fairly generous scholarships. Both schools attract similarly excellent faculty due to their urban locations. In my experience, more of my classmates are interested in private practice (often biglaw), but Fordham has awesome support for PI students; I was able to get an internship in my second month of law school. When the economy was booming, Fordham grads were definitely self selecting for biglaw and away from clerkships.

According to a survey of incoming students, 96% of Fordham 1Ls want to practice in the NYC market. I suspected the number would be high, but that blew me away. BU grads disperse more, probably due to self selection. Like so many of my classmates, I'm happy where I am.

To more directly address the OP: BU and Fordham are peer schools. Blindmelon will tell you as much, and indeed he should be consulted for information on his school. When dealing with schools in this range, it makes sense to pick based on geography-- your networking opportunities matter a lot. Because I go to Fordham, I can intern in NYC every semester, and for me, that is invaluable. People like to boil down school selection to a formula, but it's really not that simple, and your personal happiness, and how you feel about a school, can have a significant impact on how well you do.


Ok, Fordham is not per se a lot more expensive than BU (about 24K at sticker). However, taking into account that BU tends to give more money, the diffenrence can be quite substantial and I would not be willing to pay that premium for a school which can't really offer a lot more than BU can.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Fordham v.s. Boston University

Postby OperaSoprano » Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:52 am

Xiaolong wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:
Xiaolong wrote:Fordham if you are dead set on NYC. If that is not the case, BU is the better choice. It is a lot cheaper, has more of a national reach than Fordham, better faculty, and it is also better at PI pleacement and clerkships.


I don't know that BU is a lot cheaper, unless you consider that the school has a larger endowment, and so historically has been able to give fairly generous scholarships. Both schools attract similarly excellent faculty due to their urban locations. In my experience, more of my classmates are interested in private practice (often biglaw), but Fordham has awesome support for PI students; I was able to get an internship in my second month of law school. When the economy was booming, Fordham grads were definitely self selecting for biglaw and away from clerkships.

According to a survey of incoming students, 96% of Fordham 1Ls want to practice in the NYC market. I suspected the number would be high, but that blew me away. BU grads disperse more, probably due to self selection. Like so many of my classmates, I'm happy where I am.

To more directly address the OP: BU and Fordham are peer schools. Blindmelon will tell you as much, and indeed he should be consulted for information on his school. When dealing with schools in this range, it makes sense to pick based on geography-- your networking opportunities matter a lot. Because I go to Fordham, I can intern in NYC every semester, and for me, that is invaluable. People like to boil down school selection to a formula, but it's really not that simple, and your personal happiness, and how you feel about a school, can have a significant impact on how well you do.


Ok, Fordham is not per se a lot more expensive than BU (about 24K at sticker). However, taking into account that BU tends to give more money, the diffenrence can be quite substantial and I would not be willing to pay that premium for a school which can't really offer a lot more than BU can.


BU has triple the endowment Fordham has, hence my school cannot really buy students. People come here because they really want to be here, and it definitely shows in the student body. (This is not to say that BU students don't love their school, but it absolutely says something when students turn down UCLA, GULC and Cornell to come to Fordham with a modest scholarship. I have seen all of the above happen.) For NYC networking and interning during the school year, Fordham is the next best option after NYU and CLS. I absolutely feel that my school is worth every cent that I've paid so far, and the location has been a tremendous blessing.

FTR, the biglaw disparity for 2009 is almost certainly attributable to the hit NYC took ITE. As the financial sector recovers, I expect that things will pick up here, though we may not see boom level hiring for a while. Historically speaking, BU and Fordham have had similar placement numbers. Both are great schools where the OP could conceivably be very happy, depending on OP's goals.

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Mattalones
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Re: Fordham v.s. BU

Postby Mattalones » Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:52 am

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kams
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Re: Fordham v.s. BU

Postby kams » Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:40 am

I think BU's placement in NY is actually very good. Might not be quite as good as Fordham's, probably because BU tends to place about 10% in CA, and other markets (including Boston) as well, whereas I know Fordham is very confined to NY. So BU is probably the safer bet, but if you are deadset on NY, then go with Fordham. If you are favoring NY, but want to keep the options open, then BU.

But from your posts, it seems like you're leaning toward Fordham for some reason. So that's probably where you'll end up. I was in a similar situation as you last year, but I was always leaning toward BU, not Fordham.

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Mattalones
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Re: Fordham v.s. BU

Postby Mattalones » Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:18 am

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A'nold
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Re: Fordham v.s. BU

Postby A'nold » Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:05 am

You applied to Hastings, Davis, and UC Irvine, right? I guess I'm asking if you aren't just relying on the CA giants.

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Mattalones
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Re: Fordham v.s. BU

Postby Mattalones » Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:30 am

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BigLawyer
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Re: Fordham v.s. BU

Postby BigLawyer » Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:35 pm

Fordham has better placement statistics largely because it is located in New York. That being said, it places massive amounts of graduates into the V100 for a school ranked in the 15-30 range.

BigLawyer
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Re: Fordham v.s. BU

Postby BigLawyer » Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:37 pm


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Mattalones
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Re: Fordham v.s. BU

Postby Mattalones » Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:30 pm

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BigLawyer
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Re: Fordham v.s. Boston University

Postby BigLawyer » Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:46 pm

Xiaolong wrote:
Mattalones wrote:
Xiaolong wrote:Fordham if you are dead set on NYC. If that is not the case, BU is the better choice. It is a lot cheaper, has more of a national reach than Fordham, better faculty, and it is also better at PI pleacement and clerkships.

I don't really know if I am deadest on NYC. RIght now, I will go wherever is best if I have to leave CA. If I were to go into a different legal market than NYC, would the prospects be as good out of BU. Perhaps NYC out of Fordham will be a better (more sure market paying job) than any setup out of BU in another market. I don't know though. Anyone know about that topic?


In terms of placement, BU and Fordham are pretty similar, although in the most recent data, BU placed about 5% more people into biglaw than Fordham. (--LinkRemoved--)

Also, another difference is that BUs placement is more national(--LinkRemoved--) and BU co-dominates its market, while Fordham(--LinkRemoved--) is only good for NYC and faces competition from Columbia and NYU plus the rest of the T14.

So, for someone like you who is not yet set on a market I would think that BU will give you more flexibility. Also keep in mind that sticker at Fordham is like 210K, which IMO is a ridiculous price tag for a school of Fordham's rank.


I wouldn't say that BU codominates its market. Last I checked, boston law firms were picking up Harvard and BC grads at a higher rate than BU grads, which puts it in the same boat as Fordham. Just saying.

BigLawyer
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Re: Fordham v.s. BU

Postby BigLawyer » Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:47 pm

Mattalones wrote:
BigLawyer wrote:http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2010/02/law-school-.html

That is a cool listing, but doesn't really help that much because the two schools do almost the same (both about one-third). There is actually no significant jump until you go as high as Cornell, from whom I still await a response ... Come on, Ithaca!!!


Yeah, I don't think there is much of a difference between BC, BU, Fordham or GW. They are all very good and do almost the same as each other.

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Mattalones
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Re: Insight Please: Fordham v.s. BU

Postby Mattalones » Tue Mar 30, 2010 2:47 pm

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bceagles182
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Re: Insight Please: Fordham v.s. BU

Postby bceagles182 » Tue Mar 30, 2010 2:55 pm

Mattalones wrote:I know each school has its strengths, and that each is good. That is why I am surprised to not see a lot of information on TLS about this.

I am finding better employment percentages, not numbers, for NLJ250 placement for Fordham than BU, but that is all I have been able to find. Is there any substantial reason for BU being ranked about 10 spots higher than Fordham?

As far as living preference, I am interested in both citied. Although, I am a little more intrigued by Boston than by NY.


Isn't the answer to this question pretty simple? Fordham is in a larger legal market than BU...

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Mattalones
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Re: Insight Please: Fordham v.s. BU

Postby Mattalones » Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:26 pm

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