UCLA or UT ? based on these preferences Forum

[dancinginseptember]

UCLA with some money --> some debt.
UT with some money, and in-state tuition* --> no debt. and a fair amount of pocket money.



I will be attending right after undergrad. I attend a small liberal arts college. I'm excited about living more independently, but still want a relatively campus-centric life (maybe that's immature, but all judgments aside. this is about mememememe ). I lack strong connections in either of these cities, so really want friendly students. I need and want friends, yall.


I want the more nationally portable degree because I don't know exactly where I want to work. I'd like to either (a) go the big law route, (b) pursue the APD track at a place like mckinsey (consulting - eh, realize may not be possible. putting it out there), or (c) work at a prestigious think tank.

Areas of interest: international, intellectual property, energy, environmental, health + health care. (very broad lol)

Cities I see myself in:
1. Washington DC. Really my top choice: which school places better in DC? Chances of big law in DC?
2. San Francisco? I like Northern California... but no ties to this area at all;
New York?
Austin?
Boulder?
Chicago?
LA?
I always figured that I would STRONGLY prefer to not live in Texas... I'm not totally opposed to Austin though. On the whole, California > Texas for me.



To sum:
-want strong campus community
-DC in the future, but am open to other cities
-money is a factor. not a deal breaker. i would live more comfortably at UT

Help please

[Veyron]

Preftigous consulting gigs will be closed to you at either school. Both have great campuses. Both place about equally in dc. I would go to ucla so at least you have norcal as an option per your preferences

[dancinginseptember]

Thanks, Veyron!

Other voters: I appreciate any and all comments explaining your vote, no matter how brief.

[im_blue]

I will be attending right after undergrad. I attend a small liberal arts college. I'm excited about living more independently, but still want a relatively campus-centric life (maybe that's immature, but all judgments aside. this is about mememememe ). I lack strong connections in either of these cities, so really want friendly students. I need and want friends, yall.

UT has a better college-town life and probably has friendlier students. UCLA has a lot of commuters, since the immediate area is expensive.

I want the more nationally portable degree because I don't know exactly where I want to work. I'd like to either (a) go the big law route, (b) pursue the APD track at a place like mckinsey (consulting - eh, realize may not be possible. putting it out there), or (c) work at a prestigious think tank.

I think UT is more nationally portable, because they send graduates to CA, TX, and NY, while UCLA predominantly places in CA.

Cities I see myself in:
1. Washington DC. Really my top choice: which school places better in DC? Chances of big law in DC?
2. San Francisco? I like Northern California... but no ties to this area at all;
New York?
Austin?
Boulder?
Chicago?
LA?
I always figured that I would STRONGLY prefer to not live in Texas... I'm not totally opposed to Austin though.

Hmm...this is a tough one. Probably UCLA for SF, LA, and Boulder, and UT for the rest.

money is a factor. not a deal breaker. i would live more comfortably at UT

UT looks like the overall winner here.

[dancinginseptember]

thanks! very helpful.

[dancinginseptember]

my friend offered this: she would choose UCLA. in case she ended up towards the middle - bottom of her class, she'd rather be placed in California.

For me, California >Texas. Is this something I should keep in mind as I decide? Thoughts on this theory?

[Esc]

UCLA with some money --> some debt.
UT with some money, and in-state tuition* --> no debt. and a fair amount of pocket money.



I will be attending right after undergrad. I attend a small liberal arts college. I'm excited about living more independently, but still want a relatively campus-centric life (maybe that's immature, but all judgments aside. this is about mememememe ). I lack strong connections in either of these cities, so really want friendly students. I need and want friends, yall.


I want the more nationally portable degree because I don't know exactly where I want to work. I'd like to either (a) go the big law route, (b) pursue the APD track at a place like mckinsey (consulting - eh, realize may not be possible. putting it out there), or (c) work at a prestigious think tank.

Areas of interest: international, intellectual property, energy, environmental, health + health care. (very broad lol)

Cities I see myself in:
1. Washington DC. Really my top choice: which school places better in DC? Chances of big law in DC?
2. San Francisco? I like Northern California... but no ties to this area at all;
New York?
Austin?
Boulder?
Chicago?
LA?
I always figured that I would STRONGLY prefer to not live in Texas... I'm not totally opposed to Austin though.



To sum:
-want strong campus community
-DC in the future, but am open to other cities
-money is a factor. not a deal breaker. i would live more comfortably at UT

Help please

Texas makes way more sense unless you know you want the west coast. Texas has better reach to NYC and DC than UCLA. The Austin market is small, but IP heavy, so if you go into IP you have a good shot at finding a job here. The school is very strong on energy, and decent on IP and the other areas, so it would seem to match your interests. Its not a small campus community, per se....Austin isn't a huge city, but its not a small college town. However, everyone here at the law school (which really is its own small world on the otherwise huge UT campus) is very, very friendly, and its easy to make friends.

Texas is also better for clerking and academia, which will help with the "think tank" route.

[beef wellington]

my friend offered this: she would choose UCLA. in case she ended up towards the middle - bottom of her class, she'd rather be placed in California.

For me, California >Texas. Is this something I should keep in mind as I decide? Thoughts on this theory?

Your friend sounds wise. Texas might be more enjoyable for you given your stipulations but IMO it would suck to get stuck there if it wasn't in Austin.

[fortissimo]

my friend offered this: she would choose UCLA. in case she ended up towards the middle - bottom of her class, she'd rather be placed in California.

For me, California >Texas. Is this something I should keep in mind as I decide? Thoughts on this theory?

Sad to say that ite, if she ended up in the bottom of her class at UCLA, she won't be placed anywhere except on unemployment.

I think UT makes a lot more sense here, because it provides more mobility to DC and is much, much cheaper for you.

(Another anecdote, my friend was recently rejected in-state tuition at Berkeley despite doing everything right. In-state is not guaranteed your 2L year so you may have to pay OOS tuition all 3 years at UCLA.)

And this is just personal opinion, but as much I LOATHE Texas weather (it's way too humid and hot), Los Angeles is a really crappy city to live in. I don't know if you have lived/been there before, but you should spend a significant amount of time there before deciding whether or not to commit your (entire) life to living there.

[dancinginseptember]

just as a fyi:

I'm from Dallas so I
1. know the Texas weather pretty well (born and raised -- though fled to the east coast for undergrad)
2. have visited Austin several times (all for short trips). like the city. have stayed in a UT undergrad dorm while visiting a friend
3. am sure I do not want to settle in Dallas + Houston

also: i attended debate camp for two weeks at UCLA. we stayed in deneve plaza, so also somewhat know the campus + westwood

[86revolt]

if you really want to go to DC, you may be interested in UCLA's UCDC Law program. i did it in undergrad (at Cal, however), and the UC's just started the same program for law school. Essentially it's a "study abroad" in DC where they help you get an internship/externship while you finish some requirements. as you know with law jobs, it's all about getting your foot in the door. some people from Boalt who did UCDC last year worked at Dept of State and DOJ, and were able to secure employment at those places after law school.

UT still does a great job getting people into DC after law school, however, mainly because DC firms and government agencies heavily recruit at their OCI, so I don't think either is a bad idea. i would say just visit the school and see which one you enjoy more. i think the schools are so evenly matched that (at least based on your criteria) you can't say one is better than the other.

[SHARK WEEK!]

You sound like someone who wants to leave Texas eventually. If you want to practice in CA, then UCLA is the obvious choice. The person above who said "probably UCLA for places like SF, LA" captures the overall UT-bias in this thread. A UCLA degree is a much better degree to have if you want to live/practice in California. There is no "probably" about it.

Also, we've been through this in a lot of the other threads: UT and UCLA are "super-regionals". National portability is something you shouldn't be overly concerned about - neither is going to place you especially well in Boston or Chicago, and the difference in national portability between them is fleeting, metaphysically unestablished, and nominal at best. Placement statistics are the best we have, but the general consensus is this:

Texas: The numbers don't tell the whole story here because a very small minority of American law students have their "heart set on Texas". There aren't hoards of T-14 graduates flooding the Texas market. Hence, UT places the absolute hell out of Texas.

Los Angeles: The numbers don't tell the whole story here because most UCLA students self-select themselves into the L.A. market. It is very difficult to give up the Pacific Ocean and the weather to head back to slumming it up for 10+ years in Boston or Chicago. I'm in Chicago now by the way. I like the people, but the city and locale is just downright miserable (and I feel that way about the blisteringly hot summers too). Weather aside, Chicago lacks an attractive personality to me. It has one big identity crisis problem that nobody wants, whereas L.A.'s identity crisis is generally celebrated.

If you want Texas, go to Texas. If you want California, go to UCLA. If you want another region, well, then go to a regional school out there or get into a T14. The bottom line is: Texas is NOT a national school. UCLA is NOT currently regarded as a national school yet either. Pick the region you want first, then pick the school. Don't try to do it the other way around.

[beef wellington]

The bottom line is: Texas is NOT a national school. UCLA is NOT currently regarded as a national school yet either. Pick the region you want first, then pick the school. Don't try to do it the other way around.

Some have argued that the top 14 law schools are national law schools, having strong placement opportunities throughout the nation. However, the fact that most graduates of UCLA and Texas practice in California and Texas respectively is likely due to choice more than limitations.

So Ken's wrong on this one?

[Esc]

If you want Texas, go to Texas. If you want California, go to UCLA. If you want another region, well, then go to a regional school out there or get into a T14. The bottom line is: Texas is NOT a national school. UCLA is NOT currently regarded as a national school yet either. Pick the region you want first, then pick the school. Don't try to do it the other way around.

Disagree.

[Na_Swatch]

If you want Texas, go to Texas. If you want California, go to UCLA. If you want another region, well, then go to a regional school out there or get into a T14. The bottom line is: Texas is NOT a national school. UCLA is NOT currently regarded as a national school yet either. Pick the region you want first, then pick the school. Don't try to do it the other way around.

Disagree.

.....sensing bias in response.... not sure from what tho.... something just strikes me, maybe the eyepatch?

[texasgirl22]

Esc, could you provide more insight into the biglaw opportunites at UT? In Texas and elsewhere? I'm currently deciding between UT and another similarly ranked school.

[SplitterPride]

ucla is not campus centric. It might be overwhelming and the cost of living too high. Texas with little debt is rational. When u will think back upon it, texas makes a good fit for you in particular. You will make friends no matter where you go, stick with texas.

[chadwick218]

-want strong campus community TEXAS
-DC in the future, but am open to other cities TEXAS
-money is a factor. not a deal breaker. i would live more comfortably at UT TEXAS

Also, have you ever experienced 6th Street on a Thursday night? Wow!

[chadwick218]

Also, I lived for 5+ years in both Dallas and Los Angeles. UCLA will certainly give you better opportunities in Los Angeles, the rest of California, and the Pacific Northwest ... UT will certainly give you better options throughout Texas. Otherwise, I think that it is essentially a draw for the other markets you are considering.

Austin, as a college town, is incredible. Indeed, I have thought many nights about transfering from a T-14 to UT just so that I could enjoy law school and life a little bit more.

[Esc]

Esc, could you provide more insight into the biglaw opportunites at UT? In Texas and elsewhere? I'm currently deciding between UT and another similarly ranked school.

There aren't any ITE employment statistics released yet, so its hard to say what the current climate is. Pre-ITE, it was assumed that top 50-60% was enough for Biglaw or market salary firms (Texas has a good number of firms that aren't "Biglaw" but pay market rate). 1/3 of each class year ended up out-of-state mostly in market jobs in DC, NYC, and CA, fed gov jobs in DC, or federal clerkships out of state.

Right now its hard to tell whats going on. The 2Ls got pounded at OCI at UT just as bad as at every other school. But the firms are hiring some 1Ls right now, so hopefully things are looking up for this fall.

[runn3rs]

Its really hard to get a biglaw job in Austin. If you stay in ATX, more likely than not you'd have to downscale to a small firm or mid-law. If you hate Texas, you should consider how good Austin's national reputation because it is pretty difficult to get a biglaw job in Austin. Think Tanks are few and far between and there isn't a huge consulting market although it does exist.

[bmtripp]

All other considerations aside, most practicing attorneys I have spoken to say to take the money.

[utexas2010]

As far as location, I think UCLA is hard to beat. Having been born and raised in Houston and doing undergrad at UT, I think both cities are quite dull to be honest. Also, (no offense) I think Dallas is probably one of the least appealing cities I have ever been to, so I do not blame you for wanting to try something new. Do not let people over-hype Austin...I came here expecting great things from the city but was quickly let down. Outside of downtown and the campus, Austin is not very aesthetically pleasing in my opinion...Don't get me wrong, if you like to party then you will love 6th street, but I wouldn't make a decision based on one notorious party street (plus LA nightlife>>>Austin). I personally feel that Austin does not offer anything than cannot be found in both Houston or Dallas (except a higher cost of living). Sorry if this post sounds negative, but after living in Austin for 4 years, I get a little upset when people act like it is one of the best cities in the nation..it's not even close.


As far as schools, both are great options and I congratulate you on your opportunity to be put in this position. Both schools offer a friendly collegial atmosphere and a great campus life. Making friends will be easy at either one. I remember going to UCLA to visit a friend (Westwood is amazing) and then accidentally going into the wrong apartment looking for him....I walked into a room of about 10 students watching a Lakers game (I didn't know one of them). They offered me food and I ended up staying their and watching the game and having a great time. I have had similar situations at UT where people are extremely friendly. With that being said, you are going for law school so it could be different.

[fortissimo]

As far as location, I think UCLA is hard to beat. Having been born and raised in Houston and doing undergrad at UT, I think both cities are quite dull to be honest.

It's amusing how non-Californians rave about LA, while (many) Californians hate it. Los Angeles lacks the unique cultural vibe that other big cities have. I can't explain it clearly, but it gives off a totally different, blander vibe from other cities like New York and Seattle. It's like if legoland were covered in dark-grim paint, made less attractive, and made life-sized. There's no artistic nor good aesthetic vibe to the city whatsoever. To put it plainly, living in LA is like living in a grimy, polluted, musty warehouse with generic beer while deluded, really superficial people rollerskate past you, and cheap, flashing fluorescent lights periodically blind you. It's like a "cheap man's" version of a city (except it has a really high COL.)

[SHARK WEEK!]

As far as location, I think UCLA is hard to beat. Having been born and raised in Houston and doing undergrad at UT, I think both cities are quite dull to be honest.

It's amusing how non-Californians rave about LA, while (many) Californians hate it. Los Angeles lacks the unique cultural vibe that other big cities have. I can't explain it clearly, but it gives off a totally different, blander vibe from other cities like New York and Seattle. It's like if legoland were covered in dark-grim paint, made less attractive, and made life-sized. There's no artistic nor good aesthetic vibe to the city whatsoever. To put it plainly, living in LA is like living in a grimy, polluted, musty warehouse with generic beer while deluded, really superficial people rollerskate past you, and cheap, flashing fluorescent lights periodically blind you. It's like a "cheap man's" version of a city (except it has a really high COL.)

And then there are always the non-urban reasons why people move to L.A.:

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Look, I'm not anti-UT trolling here. Basically, people are just going to vote based on which school they like better. I honestly think you could flip a coin to decide on which school to attend and you'd be doing pretty well for yourself and happy either way in 10 years. (Unless you actually DO decide to do Biglaw. Then, you will be miserable, but rich.)