What would you do?

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romothesavior
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What would you do?

Postby romothesavior » Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:31 pm

I am still waiting on a few schools (VULS, GULC, Mich, and Duke), but I expect most of those to be rejections. I have gotten into four schools (BU, Cornell, UIUC, WUSTL) and am trying to weigh my options and make a decision. TLS has been very helpful to me throughout this entire process, so I wanted to ask the TLS community for some insight on what would be the best school for me.

Goal: Chicago biglaw or midlaw somewhere in the midwest
About me: 168/3.75, coming straight out of UG, debt is a big factor in my decision, resident of central Illinois, want to go to LS in a city

My Options (I've taken BU out of the running)

Cornell
Pros- Probably the best school I will end up getting into, great reputation (even out here in the midwest), it will give me the best national placement upon graduation, gives me the opportunity to get out of Illinois, and I'm a prestige whore so the whole Ivy thing is appealing :D

Cons- Will have to pay sticker, it is at the bottom of the T14, it is really far from home

UIUC
Pros- Received a 30k/year scholly (in-state tuition is 33k), only 45 minutes from home, good reputation in the state and seems to be on the rise in US News rankings, lifelong fan of Illinois athletics program :D

Cons- I REALLY want to get out of central Illinois, stiff competition in the Chicago market, concerned about finding a job after graduation

WUSTL
Pros- City life, I love St. Louis, great regional reputation and a strong national placement, will probably get a scholarship in the 80-100k range (based on last year's applications on LSN), is within 2 hours from home

Cons- Will have more debt than I would from U of I, cost of living in St. Louis would be higher than Illinois and maybe Cornell (dunno for sure)

Basically, it looks like I am going to have the option of paying sticker at Cornell, having free tuition at UIUC, and paying somewhere in between at WUSTL. Would sticker at Cornell give me better enough job prospects to warrant passing on a practically full ride at UIUC or a big scholarship from WUSTL? How big is the difference between schools like WUSTL, UIUC, and Cornell? If you were my advisor, what would you tell me to do?

*Note: If Duke or Mich come thru, all bets are off... I'll be a Wolverine or a Blue Devil!*
Last edited by romothesavior on Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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JMBrown32
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Re: What would you do?

Postby JMBrown32 » Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:52 pm

I'm under the impression that Cornell places extremely well in NYC, but not all the great elsewhere, perhaps that's just self selection though.

I'm not too sure about the other two, though I hear WUSTL's OCI was a bloodbath this year. Have you applied to Notre Dame though? Their grads sees to place quite well in the Midwest and a cursory glance at their LSN data suggests you could get a pretty decent scholarship from them.

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thickfreakness
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Re: What would you do?

Postby thickfreakness » Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:58 pm

I think you'll get in at Vandy, but I would think UIUC may offer better Chicago prospects, maybe. If I was in your situation I'd go to UIUC or a T10 (if you're admitted), which seems to be your current plan.

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romothesavior
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Re: What would you do?

Postby romothesavior » Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:07 pm

thickfreakness wrote:I think you'll get in at Vandy, but I would think UIUC may offer better Chicago prospects, maybe. If I was in your situation I'd go to UIUC or a T10 (if you're admitted), which seems to be your current plan.


I thought I would get in at Vandy too, but somehow I still haven't heard a word from them. Its been three stinkin months! Even if I do get in, I don't expect much $, so I don't think I could see VULS jumping over WUSTL or UIUC on my board.

I think my only real hangup with UIUC is the fact that I have lived in this area my entire life. My family has lived in the same city since I was born, I attend UG about 60 miles away from that, and U of I is about 45 minutes away from here. I see the chance to be in a city (WUSTL) or to head out to the East Coast (Cornell) as a chance to set out on my own and do my own thing. Corny, I know, but it is still a factor that weighs heavily on my mind.

keg411
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Re: What would you do?

Postby keg411 » Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:13 pm

It really depends which means more to you: lack of debt or BigLaw opportunities.

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UFMatt
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Re: What would you do?

Postby UFMatt » Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:36 pm

If your goal is Chicago biglaw or midwest midlaw, then a full ride to UIUC seems like a no-brainer, especially if you are debt averse.

showNprove
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Re: What would you do?

Postby showNprove » Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:41 pm

First of all, it sounds like you would be happiest at WUSTL, and you should definitely not undervalue that consideration. If you get a scholarship in that range, then UIUC shouldn't even be a consideration--WUSTL would seem to give you more happiness/$

Still, being at the bottom of the T14 is better than not in it at all. See how much money WUSTL gives you. Once you get that figure, then weigh it against Cornell more closely.

If I had to say right now, I would tell you to take Cornell. If WUSTL gives you a lot of money, it's definitely worth a look.

Kobe_Teeth
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Re: What would you do?

Postby Kobe_Teeth » Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:49 pm

Cost of living in StL might be cheaper than you think. Rent there is about 2/3 (maybe a touch higher than that) cheaper than Chicago. Granted, that still makes it more expensive than Urbana-Champaign, but still not ridiculous. If you get a roommate or two I wouldn't sweat CoL in MO and specifically StL.

I would vote WUSTL w/the scholly. Though Chicago is your top choice to practice, WUSTL gives some extra portability that UIUC doesn't. If getting out of IL is something you think you might want to someday pursue, WUSTL is the better option. Also, if you're a prestige whore, Wash U as an institution is pretty prestigious.

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UFMatt
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Re: What would you do?

Postby UFMatt » Mon Feb 01, 2010 7:17 pm

showNprove wrote:First of all, it sounds like you would be happiest at WUSTL, and you should definitely not undervalue that consideration. If you get a scholarship in that range, then UIUC shouldn't even be a consideration--WUSTL would seem to give you more happiness/$

Still, being at the bottom of the T14 is better than not in it at all. See how much money WUSTL gives you. Once you get that figure, then weigh it against Cornell more closely.

If I had to say right now, I would tell you to take Cornell. If WUSTL gives you a lot of money, it's definitely worth a look.


I just don't see how Cornell would be worth $150,000 more in debt than UIUC when his goal is the Chicago market.

I agree that a fat scholarship to WUSTL puts it above UIUC though.

showNprove
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Re: What would you do?

Postby showNprove » Mon Feb 01, 2010 7:21 pm

UFMatt wrote:
showNprove wrote:First of all, it sounds like you would be happiest at WUSTL, and you should definitely not undervalue that consideration. If you get a scholarship in that range, then UIUC shouldn't even be a consideration--WUSTL would seem to give you more happiness/$

Still, being at the bottom of the T14 is better than not in it at all. See how much money WUSTL gives you. Once you get that figure, then weigh it against Cornell more closely.

If I had to say right now, I would tell you to take Cornell. If WUSTL gives you a lot of money, it's definitely worth a look.


I just don't see how Cornell would be worth $150,000 more in debt than UIUC when his goal is the Chicago market.

I agree that a fat scholarship to WUSTL puts it above UIUC though.

I missed that part. A close-to-free ride at UIUC is better than Cornell for Chicago.

OP, ignore my last post. If WUSTL gives you a fat scholarship, take it. Otherwise, UIUC is your best bet.

09042014
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Re: What would you do?

Postby 09042014 » Mon Feb 01, 2010 7:28 pm

Kobe_Teeth wrote:Cost of living in StL might be cheaper than you think. Rent there is about 2/3 (maybe a touch higher than that) cheaper than Chicago. Granted, that still makes it more expensive than Urbana-Champaign, but still not ridiculous. If you get a roommate or two I wouldn't sweat CoL in MO and specifically StL.

I would vote WUSTL w/the scholly. Though Chicago is your top choice to practice, WUSTL gives some extra portability that UIUC doesn't. If getting out of IL is something you think you might want to someday pursue, WUSTL is the better option. Also, if you're a prestige whore, Wash U as an institution is pretty prestigious.


Portability to where? St Louis? Also inside Chicago people think UIUC is better than WUSTL. Everyone tries to send their kids to UIUC.

If you want Chicago, go to UIUC. CU isn't half bad a city, and UIUC is best nont14 for Chicago, it beats ND, and WUSTL. Though both ND and WUSTL have better national rep.

If you want NYC, Cornell.

If you want general Midwest, WUSTL.

For someone who is going to practice in Chicago, UIUC with a full ride is epic win.

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Vincent Vega
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Re: What would you do?

Postby Vincent Vega » Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:43 am

If no T10, then WUSTL with $$$.

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Grizz
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Re: What would you do?

Postby Grizz » Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:52 am

romothesavior wrote:
thickfreakness wrote:I think you'll get in at Vandy, but I would think UIUC may offer better Chicago prospects, maybe. If I was in your situation I'd go to UIUC or a T10 (if you're admitted), which seems to be your current plan.


I thought I would get in at Vandy too, but somehow I still haven't heard a word from them. Its been three stinkin months! Even if I do get in, I don't expect much $, so I don't think I could see VULS jumping over WUSTL or UIUC on my board.

I think my only real hangup with UIUC is the fact that I have lived in this area my entire life. My family has lived in the same city since I was born, I attend UG about 60 miles away from that, and U of I is about 45 minutes away from here. I see the chance to be in a city (WUSTL) or to head out to the East Coast (Cornell) as a chance to set out on my own and do my own thing. Corny, I know, but it is still a factor that weighs heavily on my mind.


Three months? We have same numbers, and I was complete 1/18 and DM 1/29. I think we have a decent shot. I'll let you know what happens.

In this above scenario, WUSTL with money.

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Joga Bonito
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Re: What would you do?

Postby Joga Bonito » Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:31 pm

Cornell or Wustl...Wustl has a better national placement than UIUC and well Cornell is an ivy and I'm not prestige averse either and I disagree with the idea that people in the chi think uiuc is better than washu cause thats not my experience and its wrong anyway.

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ndirish2010
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Re: What would you do?

Postby ndirish2010 » Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:40 pm

I'd go to UIUC if I were you...you said you wanted Chicago, not worth it to pay half at WUSTL or sticker at Cornell when your prospects for Chicago would be almost as good with no debt from Illinois. Go there.

keg411
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Re: What would you do?

Postby keg411 » Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:10 pm

ndirish2010 wrote:I'd go to UIUC if I were you...you said you wanted Chicago, not worth it to pay half at WUSTL or sticker at Cornell when your prospects for Chicago would be almost as good with no debt from Illinois. Go there.


That's not true. OP has more of a chance of ChicagoBigLaw at Cornell than at UIUC/WUSTL. I have a relative who is a 3L at Cornell and she knows several non-Top10%-ers who worked at ChicagoBigLaw for their 2L SA's (on the flip side, the Chicago firms gave out a ton of no-offers that year leaving a bunch of people screwed, so maybe the $$$$ is better).

Like I said before, OP needs to decide on which he/she would prefer: BigLaw opportunities vs. lack of debt (I personally would go for "lack of debt" but some people put a premium on prestige or are "Big Law or Bust").

09042014
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Re: What would you do?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:29 pm

Joga Bonito wrote:Cornell or Wustl...Wustl has a better national placement than UIUC and well Cornell is an ivy and I'm not prestige averse either and I disagree with the idea that people in the chi think uiuc is better than washu cause thats not my experience and its wrong anyway.


UIUC > WUSTL in Chicago. In law and as a University.

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Vincent Vega
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Re: What would you do?

Postby Vincent Vega » Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:32 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Joga Bonito wrote:Cornell or Wustl...Wustl has a better national placement than UIUC and well Cornell is an ivy and I'm not prestige averse either and I disagree with the idea that people in the chi think uiuc is better than washu cause thats not my experience and its wrong anyway.


UIUC > WUSTL in Chicago. In law and as a University.


WUSTL>UIUC everywhere else, probably

09042014
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Re: What would you do?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:38 pm

Halibut6 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Joga Bonito wrote:Cornell or Wustl...Wustl has a better national placement than UIUC and well Cornell is an ivy and I'm not prestige averse either and I disagree with the idea that people in the chi think uiuc is better than washu cause thats not my experience and its wrong anyway.


UIUC > WUSTL in Chicago. In law and as a University.


WUSTL>UIUC everywhere else, probably


In law and as a university definitely. They both have good specific departments that have varying prestige. UIUC's got a great engineering program, WUSTL has great medicine, etc etc.

newyorklaw23
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Re: What would you do?

Postby newyorklaw23 » Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:58 pm

OP it seems like a lot us are not from Chicago but trying to make judgements about the Chicago market. Your best bet is to look at the employment stats for both schools and see which places better in Chicago. I'd imagine their stats are very comparable, so in that case I'd visit both schools, talk to some current students and alumni that are doing what you'd like to do, and then weigh how important location and debt are to you. And most importantly wait out the rest of your cycle! It's barely February.

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Joga Bonito
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Re: What would you do?

Postby Joga Bonito » Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:03 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Halibut6 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Joga Bonito wrote:Cornell or Wustl...Wustl has a better national placement than UIUC and well Cornell is an ivy and I'm not prestige averse either and I disagree with the idea that people in the chi think uiuc is better than washu cause thats not my experience and its wrong anyway.


UIUC > WUSTL in Chicago. In law and as a University.


WUSTL>UIUC everywhere else, probably


In law and as a university definitely. They both have good specific departments that have varying prestige. UIUC's got a great engineering program, WUSTL has great medicine, etc etc.


Wustl has a better undergrad by any stretch of the imgination, its private, more prestigious (for those who've heard of it i know)prettier campus, more money, better b school, better law school, better med school, stronger overall student body, better everything execpt maybe eng, dont know anything about eng, its really not up for debate.

Also no offense but UIUC is in corn fields.

For the record I live in chicago.

Also US news ranks Uiuc's eng program higher than schools like say harvard, yale, princeton, columbia uhhh wtf. Don't know about you but I know where I'd rather get my degree from.

09042014
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Re: What would you do?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:25 pm

Joga Bonito wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Halibut6 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
UIUC > WUSTL in Chicago. In law and as a University.


WUSTL>UIUC everywhere else, probably


In law and as a university definitely. They both have good specific departments that have varying prestige. UIUC's got a great engineering program, WUSTL has great medicine, etc etc.


Wustl has a better undergrad by any stretch of the imgination, its private, more prestigious (for those who've heard of it i know)prettier campus, more money, better b school, better law school, better med school, better humanities programs, stronger student body, better everything execpt maybe eng, dont know anything about eng, its really not up for debate.

Also no offense but UIUC is in corn fields.

For the record I live in chicago.

Also US news ranks Uiuc's eng program higher than schools like say harvard, yale, princeton, columbia uhhh wtf. Don't know about you but I know where I'd rather get my degree from.


Ivy league engineering is a joke, except for Cornell. They suck at it. You may rather have a Harvard EE degree as a layperson, but that isn't how employers, or grad schools see it.

WUSTL also games the USNWR rankings in other fields just like they do in law.

Nobody knows what WUSTL is. They are the most overrated university in America. But like I said they are better than UIUC, even in law.

But UIUC law outplaces WUSTL law in Chicago and that is a fact. Both place pretty poorly ITE.

Also St Louis as a city is barely better than CU, and that's not saying much about either of the three towns.

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Joga Bonito
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Re: What would you do?

Postby Joga Bonito » Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:48 pm

Right Ivy league engineering is a joke. Well when I look up famous engineers or ones who work for the government or some big corporation they usually went to an ivy league, Mit, Stanford, Berkley or uhhh an ivy league so it seems like maybe what you say is not true and at least some employers do care about pedigree.

Perhaps UIUC out places wustl in Chicago, but wustl out places them everywhere else.
http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1
Also, UIUC should place better in their own state and with a smaller class.

WUSTL may be overrated in that Brown, Northwestern, Darmouth, GTown are more prestigious and well know but tied with or ranked lower than washu by usnews. But Wustl is still a T25 for undergrad, business, law, medicine and some other stuff. Plus, if you undermine the usnews ranking then there goes your argument for how good UofI’s engineering programs are and how they’re better than IVY’s.

Yes the average joe hasn’t heard of WUSTL and I hadn’t either until I was like a junior/senior in college, I also hadn’t heard of Cal Tech either. But the average person would tell you a law degree from Princeton is better than one from the University of Chicago(which they think is a public school).

And yes I think any sane person would rather have an ee degree from Harvard.

And come on, what would you rather have cornfields or a small but well know city.

I’m not saying UIUC isn’t a great school, cause they are, just not better than WUSTL in general.

09042014
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Re: What would you do?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Feb 02, 2010 5:10 pm

Joga Bonito wrote:Right Ivy league engineering is a joke. Well when I look up famous engineers or ones who work for the government or some big corporation they usually went to an ivy league, Mit, Stanford, Berkley or uhhh an ivy league so it seems like maybe what you say is not true and at least some employers do care about pedigree.
the University of Chicago(which they think is a public school).

And yes I think any sane person would rather have an ee degree from Harvard.
.


Sorry but Harvard EE is TTT. Its not good, and you saying whenever you look up a famous engineer they are from the IVY league doesn't mean shit, because its not true. The ivy league for years looked down on practical education like engineering because it was thought of as low class, while instead the land grant public school system was built to produce engineers.

You are misrepresenting what I'm saying when you include, MIT, Stanford and Berkeley, because they aren't ivy league. They are three of the best engineering programs in the world.

UIUC is a significantly better engineering school than any of the Ivy league except Cornell.

In the engineering world UIUC pedigree > Harvard engineering. You may not believe it but its true.

Those who could get into Harvard but want to do engineering go to MIT or Stanford.

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TheTopBloke
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Re: What would you do?

Postby TheTopBloke » Tue Feb 02, 2010 5:16 pm

St. Louis, definitely.




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