Top 1-14 US News Predictions Forum
- SHARK WEEK!
- Posts: 119
- Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 1:41 pm
Re: Top 1-14 US News Predictions
OMG. USNWR 2010 Law School Rankings Leaked!
1. Yale
2. Harvard
3. Stanford
4. Chicago
5. Columbia
6. NYU
7. Cal/Michigan
9. Penn
10. Northwestern
11. Virginia/Duke
13. Cornell
14. UCLA
------------------
15. Vanderbilt/Texas
17. USC
18. WUSTL
1. Yale
2. Harvard
3. Stanford
4. Chicago
5. Columbia
6. NYU
7. Cal/Michigan
9. Penn
10. Northwestern
11. Virginia/Duke
13. Cornell
14. UCLA
------------------
15. Vanderbilt/Texas
17. USC
18. WUSTL
- SHARK WEEK!
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Re: Top 1-14 US News Predictions
Oh yea.
19. Georgetown
19. Georgetown
- los blancos
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Re: Top 1-14 US News Predictions
Hmm... this could get you banned.
- stratocophic
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Re: Top 1-14 US News Predictions
Not by helm, he bleeds blue and maize these daysboilercat wrote:Hmm... this could get you banned.
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Re: Top 1-14 US News Predictions
I think the real issue here is personal interest. I didn't choose to major in English and History based on the difficulty of the coursework, I chose my majors because they contained the subject matter that I found most appealing. As for people with "harder" majors than me, I don't deny that the grading scale they are judged by is more difficult, but I cannot see why that should be something they drone on about in internet forums or in conversation, since none of us are imposing that condition on them. Their real contention is with their own department heads at their own undergraduate institutions. Badgering people with "easier" majors for their high GPAs seems to me like a pity plea mixed with academic angst. It's as though they have to insist that they are smarter than we liberal arts majors, even though we have higher GPAs, and we better not forget it, and when/if we get into better law schools then them, we had better know it was only because we took the easy way out. I'll probably get a lot of shit for this on here, but oh well.sjj05 wrote:STOP: HAMMERTIME
Since when is political science not a hard major? I fail to be impressed when students who major in engineering, applied mathematics, etc... bitch and moan about how GPAs are arbitrary and should not be heavily weighted in law school admissions. If you want someone to take your sciences/engineering degree seriously, apply to MIT for some kind of graduate program. This is law school, everyone majors in political science or english, which, coincidentally, at any 4-year private liberal arts college worth its salt, is a difficult, reading and writing intensive major. Don't try to compare my degree to someone's communications/criminal justice/anthropology degree from Penn State or WVU. It's not my fault you majored in something ridiculous.
Don't hate.
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- stratocophic
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Re: Top 1-14 US News Predictions
Most of us don't have a problem with you folks having higher GPAs. It's the nature of the beast. It's mainly the bitching about how the unwashed masses of science majors with low GPAs should be barred from entry into the T14, as was outlined by some troll in an earlier post. We made our choice, and we typically had better job prospects coming out of undergrad as a result. Works out great for those who don't change their minds about what they want to do, not so great for those of us who become law school applicants. Since most of us go into IP/patent law anyway, we're essentially diversity candidates (check the percentages of science/engineering candidates accepted: it's lower than minority figures for most schools) competing for spots they have to fill (because PS and English majors can't do patent law, so they need us for that particular program). I don't think we're truly competing with you guys as a result, so some of the rancor is probably misdirected.DanInALionsDen wrote:I think the real issue here is personal interest. I didn't choose to major in English and History based on the difficulty of the coursework, I chose my majors because they contained the subject matter that I found most appealing. As for people with "harder" majors than me, I don't deny that the grading scale they are judged by is more difficult, but I cannot see why that should be something they drone on about in internet forums or in conversation, since none of us are imposing that condition on them. Their real contention is with their own department heads at their own undergraduate institutions. Badgering people with "easier" majors for their high GPAs seems to me like a pity plea mixed with academic angst. It's as though they have to insist that they are smarter than we liberal arts majors, even though we have higher GPAs, and we better not forget it, and when/if we get into better law schools then them, we had better know it was only because we took the easy way out. I'll probably get a lot of shit for this on here, but oh well.sjj05 wrote:STOP: HAMMERTIME
Since when is political science not a hard major? I fail to be impressed when students who major in engineering, applied mathematics, etc... bitch and moan about how GPAs are arbitrary and should not be heavily weighted in law school admissions. If you want someone to take your sciences/engineering degree seriously, apply to MIT for some kind of graduate program. This is law school, everyone majors in political science or english, which, coincidentally, at any 4-year private liberal arts college worth its salt, is a difficult, reading and writing intensive major. Don't try to compare my degree to someone's communications/criminal justice/anthropology degree from Penn State or WVU. It's not my fault you majored in something ridiculous.
Don't hate.
- los blancos
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Re: Top 1-14 US News Predictions
QFT. FWIW engineers bitching about their hard GPA-deflating major is just as annoying as humanities majors who bitch about splitters getting into T14s.barrinmb wrote:Most of us don't have a problem with you folks having higher GPAs. It's the nature of the beast. It's mainly the bitching about how the unwashed masses of science majors with low GPAs should be barred from entry into the T14, as was outlined by some troll in an earlier post. We made our choice, and we typically had better job prospects coming out of undergrad as a result. Works out great for those who don't change their minds about what they want to do, not so great for those of us who become law school applicants. Since most of us go into IP/patent law anyway, we're essentially diversity candidates (check the percentages of science/engineering candidates accepted: it's lower than minority figures for most schools) competing for spots they have to fill (because PS and English majors can't do patent law, so they need us for that particular program). I don't think we're truly competing with you guys as a result, so some of the rancor is probably misdirected.DanInALionsDen wrote:I think the real issue here is personal interest. I didn't choose to major in English and History based on the difficulty of the coursework, I chose my majors because they contained the subject matter that I found most appealing. As for people with "harder" majors than me, I don't deny that the grading scale they are judged by is more difficult, but I cannot see why that should be something they drone on about in internet forums or in conversation, since none of us are imposing that condition on them. Their real contention is with their own department heads at their own undergraduate institutions. Badgering people with "easier" majors for their high GPAs seems to me like a pity plea mixed with academic angst. It's as though they have to insist that they are smarter than we liberal arts majors, even though we have higher GPAs, and we better not forget it, and when/if we get into better law schools then them, we had better know it was only because we took the easy way out. I'll probably get a lot of shit for this on here, but oh well.sjj05 wrote:STOP: HAMMERTIME
Since when is political science not a hard major? I fail to be impressed when students who major in engineering, applied mathematics, etc... bitch and moan about how GPAs are arbitrary and should not be heavily weighted in law school admissions. If you want someone to take your sciences/engineering degree seriously, apply to MIT for some kind of graduate program. This is law school, everyone majors in political science or english, which, coincidentally, at any 4-year private liberal arts college worth its salt, is a difficult, reading and writing intensive major. Don't try to compare my degree to someone's communications/criminal justice/anthropology degree from Penn State or WVU. It's not my fault you majored in something ridiculous.
Don't hate.
- SHARK WEEK!
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Re: Top 1-14 US News Predictions
+1boilercat wrote:
QFT. FWIW engineers bitching about their hard GPA-deflating major is just as annoying as humanities majors who bitch about splitters getting into T14s.
Except I don't think the person earlier was really complaining about splitters, so much as she/he was complaining about how the USNWR encourages admittance of splitters while discouraging really well-qualified people who didn't quite place 1 point in either category above the magic-median. I've got nothing against splitters, power to them, but the system as is definitely gives them insulation, and dare I say an advantage that is, by itself, unearned solely by their status as a splitter.
- stratocophic
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Re: Top 1-14 US News Predictions
I hate to point out that the emperor has no clothes, but the best engineering students still have GPAs on par with liberal arts majors. It's usually just that those of us applying to law school aren't the best I never should've been an engineering major, given my particular skill set, but I thought it was interesting and it turns out that I [strike]kind of[/strike] totally suck at calculus. I'm as guilty about the griping as anyone else, but I'm pretty sure it's a troll provoking it whenever I do it; I'm just a sucker for a pointless argumentboilercat wrote:
QFT. FWIW engineers bitching about their hard GPA-deflating major is just as annoying as humanities majors who bitch about splitters getting into T14s.
Eh, I'd say it evens the playing field in some cases. My GPA may be poor compared to most other applicants, but I'd pit myself against the vast majority in terms of reasoning and communication abilities. Maybe that would pan out, maybe it wouldn't. I'll stick with what I said about science and tech splitters being considered for diversity purposes, the rest of you unbalanced types can answer for yourselvesSHARK WEEK! wrote:+1boilercat wrote:
QFT. FWIW engineers bitching about their hard GPA-deflating major is just as annoying as humanities majors who bitch about splitters getting into T14s.
Except I don't think the person earlier was really complaining about splitters, so much as she/he was complaining about how the USNWR encourages admittance of splitters while discouraging really well-qualified people who didn't quite place 1 point in either category above the magic-median. I've got nothing against splitters, power to them, but the system as is definitely gives them insulation, and dare I say an advantage that is, by itself, unearned solely by their status as a splitter.
- Aeroplane
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Re: Top 1-14 US News Predictions
All this talk about the "qualification" of splitters makes me want to remind everyone that 1L success is generally achieved by a few months of successful prep for a very small number of high-pressure, time-limited exams.
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Re: Top 1-14 US News Predictions
Engineering courses grade on a curve. A harsh curve at most schools. Liberal arts classes give out A's like candy.barrinmb wrote:I hate to point out that the emperor has no clothes, but the best engineering students still have GPAs on par with liberal arts majors. It's usually just that those of us applying to law school aren't the best I never should've been an engineering major, given my particular skill set, but I thought it was interesting and it turns out that I [strike]kind of[/strike] totally suck at calculus.boilercat wrote:
QFT. FWIW engineers bitching about their hard GPA-deflating major is just as annoying as humanities majors who bitch about splitters getting into T14s.
The average gpa for a liberal arts major is significantly higher than the average engineering major. That isn't even counting for differences in difficulty.
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Re: Top 1-14 US News Predictions
So where does Accounting fall into this hierarchy of difficult majors? I'm thinking harder than PoliSci/History/Liberal Arts, but significantly easier than Engineering/Advanced Math/Hard Sciences.
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Re: Top 1-14 US News Predictions
physics > applied math > chem/engineering > bio/econ > business/accounting > liberal artsinsidethetwenty wrote:So where does Accounting fall into this hierarchy of difficult majors? I'm thinking harder than PoliSci/History/Liberal Arts, but significantly easier than Engineering/Advanced Math/Hard Sciences.
if it were a personal list, I'd probably put chemistry with physics. P-chem is probably the worst undergrad class ever.
Last edited by fortissimo on Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- stratocophic
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Re: Top 1-14 US News Predictions
That's fair. The existence of a difficulty difference is something of which we're not going to convince people who have had no first or second-hand (through a friend or significant other) exposure, though. We've taken both types of classes and seen the difference for ourselves, but the number of English students taking Circuits and Thermodynamics is about what you'd expect it to be. No slight intended, because why would anyone want to take those classes unless they were required for their major?Desert Fox wrote:Engineering courses grade on a curve. A harsh curve at most schools. Liberal arts classes give out A's like candy.barrinmb wrote:I hate to point out that the emperor has no clothes, but the best engineering students still have GPAs on par with liberal arts majors. It's usually just that those of us applying to law school aren't the best I never should've been an engineering major, given my particular skill set, but I thought it was interesting and it turns out that I [strike]kind of[/strike] totally suck at calculus.boilercat wrote:
QFT. FWIW engineers bitching about their hard GPA-deflating major is just as annoying as humanities majors who bitch about splitters getting into T14s.
The average gpa for a liberal arts major is significantly higher than the average engineering major. That isn't even counting for differences in difficulty.
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Re: Top 1-14 US News Predictions
I'm just going to point out that this is exactly what I was talking about earlier. Why are you trying to put down my major, and a number of other people's because you're not at the top of yours? Your issue is with your own department and their grading standards.Desert Fox wrote:Engineering courses grade on a curve. A harsh curve at most schools. Liberal arts classes give out A's like candy.barrinmb wrote:I hate to point out that the emperor has no clothes, but the best engineering students still have GPAs on par with liberal arts majors. It's usually just that those of us applying to law school aren't the best I never should've been an engineering major, given my particular skill set, but I thought it was interesting and it turns out that I [strike]kind of[/strike] totally suck at calculus.boilercat wrote:
QFT. FWIW engineers bitching about their hard GPA-deflating major is just as annoying as humanities majors who bitch about splitters getting into T14s.
The average gpa for a liberal arts major is significantly higher than the average engineering major. That isn't even counting for differences in difficulty.
- rayiner
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Re: Top 1-14 US News Predictions
Aeroplane wrote:All this talk about the "qualification" of splitters makes me want to remind everyone that 1L success is generally achieved by a few months of successful prep for a very small number of high-pressure, time-limited exams.
- vanwinkle
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Re: Top 1-14 US News Predictions
He's not putting down your major so much as pointing out a reality in the difference in GPAs. And I think his issue is with your department and how it gives out more A's, not with his and how it gives out less.DanInALionsDen wrote:I'm just going to point out that this is exactly what I was talking about earlier. Why are you trying to put down my major, and a number of other people's because you're not at the top of yours? Your issue is with your own department and their grading standards.Desert Fox wrote:Engineering courses grade on a curve. A harsh curve at most schools. Liberal arts classes give out A's like candy.
The average gpa for a liberal arts major is significantly higher than the average engineering major. That isn't even counting for differences in difficulty.
There is a lot of grade inflation especially in liberal arts programs these days. Engineering departments resist that, perhaps because being able to tell who's the smartest of the bunch actually has the potential to make a difference and save lives given the work engineers are asked to do. A liberal arts major is never going to be entrusted to make plans that if wrong could kill massive numbers of people, so there's less harm in letting them all have A's.
This has the unfortunate effect of being so much harder on engineering majors that even a 3.0+ GPA can be considered good, while a liberal arts major having less than a 3.5 makes you wonder if they have some kind of disability or impairment they should get tested for.
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Re: Top 1-14 US News Predictions
Because liberal arts degrees didn't use to hand out A's like candy. Grade inflation is a relatively new phenomenon. I'm not attacking your major, but it is easier to get an A. I wasn't bitching about it either, merely responding to other posters.DanInALionsDen wrote:I'm just going to point out that this is exactly what I was talking about earlier. Why are you trying to put down my major, and a number of other people's because you're not at the top of yours? Your issue is with your own department and their grading standards.Desert Fox wrote:Engineering courses grade on a curve. A harsh curve at most schools. Liberal arts classes give out A's like candy.barrinmb wrote:I hate to point out that the emperor has no clothes, but the best engineering students still have GPAs on par with liberal arts majors. It's usually just that those of us applying to law school aren't the best I never should've been an engineering major, given my particular skill set, but I thought it was interesting and it turns out that I [strike]kind of[/strike] totally suck at calculus.boilercat wrote:
QFT. FWIW engineers bitching about their hard GPA-deflating major is just as annoying as humanities majors who bitch about splitters getting into T14s.
The average gpa for a liberal arts major is significantly higher than the average engineering major. That isn't even counting for differences in difficulty.
Stop acting butthurt about it. I'm not saying my 2.8 should be better than your 3.8. Or even anywhere near it.
My main point is GPA is extremely subjective, not objective.
- Bosque
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Re: Top 1-14 US News Predictions
"Engineering" is much to broad a category to stick into a list like that. It would be like have a category that said "science"... or "liberal arts" actually. There is a big difference between the different types.fortissimo wrote:physics > applied math > chem/engineering > bio/econ > business/accounting > liberal artsinsidethetwenty wrote:So where does Accounting fall into this hierarchy of difficult majors? I'm thinking harder than PoliSci/History/Liberal Arts, but significantly easier than Engineering/Advanced Math/Hard Sciences.
if it were a personal list, I'd probably put chemistry with physics. P-chem is probably the worst undergrad class ever.
For example, EE would be up with the physics majors, while IE would be down with the accountants.
- los blancos
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Re: Top 1-14 US News Predictions
I've heard IE's pretty tough. At least tougher than Econ at my school.Bosque wrote:"Engineering" is much to broad a category to stick into a list like that. It would be like have a category that said "science"... or "liberal arts" actually. There is a big difference between the different types.fortissimo wrote:physics > applied math > chem/engineering > bio/econ > business/accounting > liberal artsinsidethetwenty wrote:So where does Accounting fall into this hierarchy of difficult majors? I'm thinking harder than PoliSci/History/Liberal Arts, but significantly easier than Engineering/Advanced Math/Hard Sciences.
if it were a personal list, I'd probably put chemistry with physics. P-chem is probably the worst undergrad class ever.
For example, EE would be up with the physics majors, while IE would be down with the accountants.
- Aeroplane
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Re: Top 1-14 US News Predictions
I'm going to stick up for IE here. I have some basis for comparison, as I completed most of the core comp sci curriculum before bailing to IE. Our curriculum at Cornell was math & theory heavy, and several of the core courses were challenging. OTOH we also had some easy random requirements like Accounting & Org Behavior. We also had to take all the core Engineering classes, just like everyone else. On the whole, it's way less time consuming than comp sci/ee courses because there's very few projects. But it's nothing like accounting.boilercat wrote:I've heard IE's pretty tough. At least tougher than Econ at my school.Bosque wrote: "Engineering" is much to broad a category to stick into a list like that. It would be like have a category that said "science"... or "liberal arts" actually. There is a big difference between the different types.
For example, EE would be up with the physics majors, while IE would be down with the accountants.
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Re: Top 1-14 US News Predictions
And general engineering isn't real engineering. Though that might be a UIUC thing.Bosque wrote:"Engineering" is much to broad a category to stick into a list like that. It would be like have a category that said "science"... or "liberal arts" actually. There is a big difference between the different types.fortissimo wrote:physics > applied math > chem/engineering > bio/econ > business/accounting > liberal artsinsidethetwenty wrote:So where does Accounting fall into this hierarchy of difficult majors? I'm thinking harder than PoliSci/History/Liberal Arts, but significantly easier than Engineering/Advanced Math/Hard Sciences.
if it were a personal list, I'd probably put chemistry with physics. P-chem is probably the worst undergrad class ever.
For example, EE would be up with the physics majors, while IE would be down with the accountants.
- 5ky
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Re: Top 1-14 US News Predictions
Personally, I have a better GPA in my economics major than in my political science major. Political science is too subjective to consistently pull a 4.0 in.
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Re: Top 1-14 US News Predictions
Blatant Indiana trollingPDaddy wrote:1) Yale
1) Harvard
3) Stanford
4) Columbia
5) NYU
6) Chicago
7) Penn
UVA
9) Berkeley
10) Michigan
11) Northwestern
12) Duke
13) Georgetown
14) Vanderbilt
The rest of the top-25:
15) Cornell
15) UCLA
17) Texas
18) USC
19) Minnesota
19) WUSTL
21) Illinois
22) N.D.
23) Emory
24) BC
25) BU
25) GWU
25) Fordham
I felt obligated to list the rest since I bumped Cornell from the lineup.
- los blancos
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Re: Top 1-14 US News Predictions
Econ is too damn hard and random and curved to consistently pull a 4.0 in (at least at my school).5ky wrote:Personally, I have a better GPA in my economics major than in my political science major. Political science is too subjective to consistently pull a 4.0 in.
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