Need your help to decide!! Texas/Baylor/UVA

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LawyerToBe123
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Need your help to decide!! Texas/Baylor/UVA

Postby LawyerToBe123 » Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:55 pm

Hey everyone,

I'm new to the forum and really need your help in deciding where to go next year. I've heard back from pretty much all the schools I've applied to... so far my choices are: Baylor, UVA or UT

Right now I am leaning towards Baylor. I want to be in Texas after I graduate, so Baylor or UT would probably be the most logical choice. However, with my financial situation, and in this economy, I need to minimize debt as much as possible. Texas and UVa gave me substantial aid, but Baylor gave me a full scholarship.

Baylor's generous package, coupled with their high Texas bar passage rate, practice-oriented 3L curriculum, and ties to the Texas legal market (Leon Jaworski of Fulbright & Jaworski was an alum) make Baylor the clear, logical choice right? I don't think UVA has as much weight in Texas as UT or Baylor and I'd love to go to UT except I need to minimize my debt (and Baylor actually has a higher bar passage rate in Texas than UT).

Any opinions would be helpful... you guys all seem pretty knowledgeable about this stuff so I thought I'd check in before making my final decision.

Thanks!!

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holydonkey
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Re: Need your help to decide!! Texas/Baylor/UVA

Postby holydonkey » Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:56 pm

I'd say UT in this case.

fortissimo
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Re: Need your help to decide!! Texas/Baylor/UVA

Postby fortissimo » Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:58 pm

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Last edited by fortissimo on Sat Mar 20, 2010 1:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

LawyerToBe123
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Re: Need your help to decide!! Texas/Baylor/UVA

Postby LawyerToBe123 » Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:00 pm

Really? Money is a pretty big concern for me. Baylor has a smaller student body, rigorous and unique 3rd year curriculum, great ties to the area and great bar passage rate. Doesn't make sense to go to UT in this economy...

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thickfreakness
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Re: Need your help to decide!! Texas/Baylor/UVA

Postby thickfreakness » Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:02 pm

UT dominates in-state job placement in Texas. Bar passage rates are irrelevant--the reason that UT's might be lower is because their out of state students may not pass at the same rate. Also, Baylor probably teaches to the TX bar more, whereas UT isn't going to focus on that at all. If you're in-state at UT, you should go there.

lightbulb1986
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Re: Need your help to decide!! Texas/Baylor/UVA

Postby lightbulb1986 » Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:03 pm

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Last edited by lightbulb1986 on Sun Apr 24, 2016 2:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

LawyerToBe123
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Re: Need your help to decide!! Texas/Baylor/UVA

Postby LawyerToBe123 » Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:05 pm

Thanks for the advice... I'm still not really buying the "UT is clearly better than Baylor" opinion that seems to be the general consensus. Are there any statistics or hard data that can back this up?? It seems that maybe Baylor just gets a bad rep for its very religious student body (which is a good thing in my book) and UT is overrated because of its football team (I want to go to a school for its rigorous academics, which seems to be what Baylor is known for, rather than football, which seems to be more what UT is known for to the public).

As far as Waco v. Austin... I'm very conservative, so I also believe that Waco will be a better fit for me.

clwilson6
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Re: Need your help to decide!! Texas/Baylor/UVA

Postby clwilson6 » Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:11 pm

I'd have to go with what the consensus seems to be here. UT is the way to go especially if you want to remain in the Texas market. The only reasons Baylor has a higher bar pass rate is Baylors 3L year which emphasizes actual practice and tougher course load. Baylor isn't known as the boot camp of law schools for nothing. One thing funny I had heard from a Baylor alumn is that, "Baylor is the place where fun goes to die!" It's a very strenuous program. However, it is more focused on preparing good litigators, which is nice if you want to be a DA. UT, across the board, is going to give you better job placement throughout the state and midwest than Baylor ever could. So, going into a little debt may not be that much of an issue if you have a better opportunity for higher level employment. I would rank it this way, UT, UV then Baylor, even with the full ride. Also, Austin is two million times better than living in Waco for 3 years.

LawyerToBe123
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Re: Need your help to decide!! Texas/Baylor/UVA

Postby LawyerToBe123 » Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:18 pm

clwilson - Actually your post further cemented my decision i think. I definitely want to be a litigator and some of the most famous Texas personal injury litigators are from Baylor like Ed Blizzard, Wayne Fisher, and of course, Larry Boyd.

People on TLS do not seem to think that some a $25k difference in total cost of attendance (between Baylor and UT for me) is a big deal, but it is really quite substantial for me. I don't mean to be hating on UT (as I'm a big longhorn fan) but like I said earlier, I'd rather be going to a school known as a "bootcamp for academics" than one known for partying and football.

Thanks for the replies everyone, I'm more comfortable with my decision now. GO BEARS!!!!

sandy10
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Re: Need your help to decide!! Texas/Baylor/UVA

Postby sandy10 » Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:19 pm

LawyerToBe123 wrote:Thanks for the advice... I'm still not really buying the "UT is clearly better than Baylor" opinion that seems to be the general consensus. Are there any statistics or hard data that can back this up?? It seems that maybe Baylor just gets a bad rep for its very religious student body (which is a good thing in my book) and UT is overrated because of its football team (I want to go to a school for its rigorous academics, which seems to be what Baylor is known for, rather than football, which seems to be more what UT is known for to the public).

As far as Waco v. Austin... I'm very conservative, so I also believe that Waco will be a better fit for me.


UT is really just as strong as some of the lower top 14 schools (Cornell for example). There are many elite firms that visit UT that don't even visit some top 14 schools for OCI (Wachtell and Williams and Connolly for example). UT is the hands down winner in this scenario.

They have put a good deal of people into Supreme Court clerkships for a non top 14 school too (more than Cornell, Duke, and Penn for example).

http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2000 ... erks.shtml


UT also does very very well on the 5th Court of Appeals (Texas area).
--LinkRemoved--

The number of firms that have hired UT grads in the past several years also speaks volumes about them compared to Baylor.

http://www.utexas.edu/law/depts/career/ ... loyers.pdf

I can understand the conservative argument (which is why you should ignore the comment about Austin being "better" than Waco), but you can swallow Austin for 3 years considering how much better a school UT is. I would try to ignore a lot of the comments that say that you shouldn't choose Baylor because of the conservative atmosphere etc (there is a huge anti social conservative slant on this board. Most posters will berate your tastes on that matter.) that's not why you shouldn't choose them, it's due to the job prospects.
Last edited by sandy10 on Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

lightbulb1986
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Re: Need your help to decide!! Texas/Baylor/UVA

Postby lightbulb1986 » Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:21 pm

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RVP11
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Re: Need your help to decide!! Texas/Baylor/UVA

Postby RVP11 » Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:21 pm

If you want TX BigLaw and have TX roots, UVA will be the best choice.

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jks289
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Re: Need your help to decide!! Texas/Baylor/UVA

Postby jks289 » Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:22 pm

sandy10 wrote:
LawyerToBe123 wrote:Thanks for the advice... I'm still not really buying the "UT is clearly better than Baylor" opinion that seems to be the general consensus. Are there any statistics or hard data that can back this up?? It seems that maybe Baylor just gets a bad rep for its very religious student body (which is a good thing in my book) and UT is overrated because of its football team (I want to go to a school for its rigorous academics, which seems to be what Baylor is known for, rather than football, which seems to be more what UT is known for to the public).

As far as Waco v. Austin... I'm very conservative, so I also believe that Waco will be a better fit for me.


UT is really just as strong as some of the lower top 14 schools (Cornell for example). There are many elite firms that visit UT that don't even visit some top 14 schools for OCI (Wachtell and Williams and Connolly for example). UT is the hands down winner in this scenario.

They have put a good deal of people into Supreme Court clerkships for a non top 14 school too (more than Cornell, Duke, and Penn for example).

http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2000 ... erks.shtml


UT also does very very well on the 5th Court of Appeals (Texas area).
--LinkRemoved--

The number of firms that have hired UT grads in the past several years also speaks volumes about them compared to Baylor.

http://www.utexas.edu/law/depts/career/ ... loyers.pdf

I can understand the conservative argument (which is why you should ignore the comment about Austin being "better" than Waco), but you can swallow Austin for 3 years considering how much better a school UT is.


I know that conservative people exist. But man, it blows my mind that someone could find Waco preferable to Austin. UT is the obviously choice, though UVA is hardly a bad option.

melaniec
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Re: Need your help to decide!! Texas/Baylor/UVA

Postby melaniec » Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:26 pm

sounds like you already made your decision, based on your arguments in this thread, and your "Baylor 2013" thread...

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RVP11
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Re: Need your help to decide!! Texas/Baylor/UVA

Postby RVP11 » Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:26 pm

For whoever mentioned Wachtell doing OCI at UT, please realize it's likely a URM recruiting ploy. They also do OCI at UCLA and Howard, but not at UVA, Michigan, or Duke.

And if OP wants elite (like, V10) BigLaw, TCR is to go to the best school possible. Here, that'd be UVA.

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Stringer Bell
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Re: Need your help to decide!! Texas/Baylor/UVA

Postby Stringer Bell » Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:30 pm

LawyerToBe123 wrote: I'm still not really buying the "UT is clearly better than Baylor" opinion that seems to be the general consensus. Are there any statistics or hard data that can back this up??


http://www.law.com/pdf/nlj/20080414employment_trends.pdf

Keep in mind these stats are pre-ITE, but it gives you an idea comparing school to school. UT is superior. Also, according to OCI numbers on LSN, In 2007-2008, 390 firms went to OCI at Texas vs. 82 at Baylor (which is actually lower than UH and SMU as well I believe). I also believe that Baylor has a scholarship requirement where you have to be medianish. If you're instate and getting money UT is a bargain and I think you'd be crazy to go to Baylor instead.

As for UVA, over the last few years, they send about 15 grads or so to Texas each year and every firm has UVA grads. I checked the NALP directory before deciding to ED there and every single big firm went there for OCI in '08. This was the only school not from Texas that was the case for.
Last edited by Stringer Bell on Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

littlebit
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Re: Need your help to decide!! Texas/Baylor/UVA

Postby littlebit » Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:32 pm

The scholarship at Baylor has GPA requirements. Might want to calculate what you will pay if you don't meet those requirements. You would then be paying sticker at a private school where you are in the bottom half. Also, check out the attrition rate at Baylor.

de5igual
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Re: Need your help to decide!! Texas/Baylor/UVA

Postby de5igual » Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:33 pm

JSUVA2012 wrote:For whoever mentioned Wachtell doing OCI at UT, please realize it's likely a URM recruiting ploy. They also do OCI at UCLA and Howard, but not at UVA, Michigan, or Duke.

And if OP wants elite (like, V10) BigLaw, TCR is to go to the best school possible. Here, that'd be UVA.


+1

i'd imagine OP being able to get a good amount of $$$ from UT if he/she got accepted to UVA, in which case UT might be TCR in this scenario. for staying in Texas: UT w $$$ > UVA Sticker >>> Baylor (free or otherwise)

LawyerToBe123
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Re: Need your help to decide!! Texas/Baylor/UVA

Postby LawyerToBe123 » Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:34 pm

The reason less firms came to Baylor for OCI is because of Baylor's much smaller size. Over 500 firms went to George Washington, but can anyone argue that GW is better than UT???

As to the comments on the fact that UVA is far superior to UT and Baylor, I'd definitely disagree. I'd never knew anything about UVA until I applied because they sent me a fee waiver (other than the fact that it was a big state school in Virginia). I didn't even know it was a good school or "prestigious."

On the other hand, everyone knows Baylor is an extremely academically rigorous school (the Bootcamp of Law Schools!!) and that UT has a great football team, fun atmosphere, and decent academics. So, as far as your "UVA is clearly the best school here" argument goes, I don't think that is true at all.

littlebit
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Re: Need your help to decide!! Texas/Baylor/UVA

Postby littlebit » Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:36 pm

Not sure why you asked for our input. Good luck at Baylor.

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thickfreakness
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Re: Need your help to decide!! Texas/Baylor/UVA

Postby thickfreakness » Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:37 pm

LawyerToBe123 wrote:The reason less firms came to Baylor for OCI is because of Baylor's much smaller size. Over 500 firms went to George Washington, but can anyone argue that GW is better than UT???

As to the comments on the fact that UVA is far superior to UT and Baylor, I'd definitely disagree. I'd never knew anything about UVA until I applied because they sent me a fee waiver (other than the fact that it was a big state school in Virginia). I didn't even know it was a good school or "prestigious."

On the other hand, everyone knows Baylor is an extremely academically rigorous school (the Bootcamp of Law Schools!!) and that UT has a great football team, fun atmosphere, and decent academics. So, as far as your "UVA is clearly the best school here" argument goes, I don't think that is true at all.


You asked for advice, people gave you advice, and then you come back with contrarian Baylor trolling. This thread sucks. Have fun at Baylor.

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jks289
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Re: Need your help to decide!! Texas/Baylor/UVA

Postby jks289 » Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:37 pm

LawyerToBe123 wrote:The reason less firms came to Baylor for OCI is because of Baylor's much smaller size. Over 500 firms went to George Washington, but can anyone argue that GW is better than UT???

As to the comments on the fact that UVA is far superior to UT and Baylor, I'd definitely disagree. I'd never knew anything about UVA until I applied because they sent me a fee waiver (other than the fact that it was a big state school in Virginia). I didn't even know it was a good school or "prestigious."

On the other hand, everyone knows Baylor is an extremely academically rigorous school (the Bootcamp of Law Schools!!) and that UT has a great football team, fun atmosphere, and decent academics. So, as far as your "UVA is clearly the best school here" argument goes, I don't think that is true at all.


What is the point of this thread? You have obviously made up your mind. If Baylor is it for you, that's great! But anyone will tell you UVA is the best bet overall and for Texas, UT is a better school. That doesn't need to inform YOUR decision but starting a thread to argue over it... why?

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RVP11
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Re: Need your help to decide!! Texas/Baylor/UVA

Postby RVP11 » Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:38 pm

You asked for our help to decide. Now you're just trolling.

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Stringer Bell
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Re: Need your help to decide!! Texas/Baylor/UVA

Postby Stringer Bell » Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:41 pm

LawyerToBe123 wrote:The reason less firms came to Baylor for OCI is because of Baylor's much smaller size. Over 500 firms went to George Washington, but can anyone argue that GW is better than UT???

As to the comments on the fact that UVA is far superior to UT and Baylor, I'd definitely disagree. I'd never knew anything about UVA until I applied because they sent me a fee waiver (other than the fact that it was a big state school in Virginia). I didn't even know it was a good school or "prestigious."

On the other hand, everyone knows Baylor is an extremely academically rigorous school (the Bootcamp of Law Schools!!) and that UT has a great football team, fun atmosphere, and decent academics. So, as far as your "UVA is clearly the best school here" argument goes, I don't think that is true at all.


Thanks for wasting people's time that are trying to help you. If you want to troll for Baylor that's fine, but starting a thread to do so under the pretense of asking for advice is weak.

I'm not even going to waste time refuting the poor logic you have displayed in this post. Good luck as an attorney.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Need your help to decide!! Texas/Baylor/UVA

Postby vanwinkle » Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:51 pm

These are your options/possibilities:

1) Go to UVA, and with your TX connections/background you will do great finding jobs in TX.
2) Go to UT, and while you'll be competing with all the other UT grads, you'll still do pretty well in TX if you don't fuck up.
3) Go to Baylor, rack up loans to pay COL even if they gave you a "full ride", fail at finding high-paying work when you graduate, become bitter and angry, post a lot on JDU, and then /killself.

HTH.




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