Berkeley Haters Forum

[crackberry]

I'm not saying Berkeley sucks, I'm just saying its overhyped and oversold. Berkeley's pretty nice, but not hands down the best place ever. At the end of the day, there are great things to be said about living in NY, Chicago, DC, and Boston. There are great things to be said about schools located in San Francisco, which Berkeley is not. But for certain people, it isn't even a question worth exploring: Could there be some value in leaving your nest in California and living in another major metropolitan city for a couple years? It is as if berkeley lovers have joined some kind of cult and can't be reasoned with. ITT, for example, 2/3 of berkeley's favorable arguments go like this: <3 [end rationale].

No, of course Berkeley isn't the greatest place ever, but - putting aside law schools - I'd rather live in Berkeley than New Haven, Cambridge, Palo Alto, Hyde Park, Ann Arbor, Charlottesville or Philly. Really, Berkeley is in the coolest town of any T10 law school except NYU and Columbia.

Berkeley is way closer to SF than Yale is to New York, closer to SF than UofC/Northwestern are to cool parts of Chicago, just as close to SF as Harvard is to Boston, etc.

[los blancos]

It is as if berkeley lovers have joined some kind of cult and can't be reasoned with. ITT, for example, 2/3 of berkeley's favorable arguments go like this: <3

Berk <3

(i see no need to present real positive arguments ITT)

[The Brainalist]

No, of course Berkeley isn't the greatest place ever, but - putting aside law schools - I'd rather live in Berkeley than New Haven, Cambridge, Palo Alto, Hyde Park, Ann Arbor, Charlottesville or Philly. Really, Berkeley is in the coolest town of any T10 law school except NYU and Columbia.

Berkeley is way closer to SF than Yale is to New York, closer to SF than UofC/Northwestern are to cool parts of Chicago, just as close to SF as Harvard is to Boston, etc.

Either you've never actually lived in Berkeley or you don't know where NU law is located. UChicago is IN CHICAGO, too. And on the lake, apparently off a bikepath up the lake to downtown and other cool parts of chicago. Also, having recently gone to Chicago, I can vouch that the trains are 90% better than the bart in terms of where they go. GULC is also apparently a cool location, although I haven't been there.

Seriously, I think Berkeleyans have some crazy rose-colored glasses on. They oversell almost every aspect of it. From another post:

I went to Berkeley for undergrad and I can tell you that you *absolutely* don’t need a car in Berkeley. I would say (among undergrads at least) only about 1/4-1/3 of students have a car. The bus system is usually very very good and BART will take you to SF and all around the Bay Area.

TITCR. This one time, I decided to take the BART to the other places in the Bay Area besides SF. First, I rode it to San Jose. Then I rode it to San Rafael, on the other side of the Bay, and continued up to the wine country and Santa Rosa. Then, I rode it down to Palo Alto, Half Moon Bay, and Santa Cruz. I even rode it to Sunset, Golden Gate Bridge, and Golden Gate Park, and the Wharf! That was awesome.

No. That's not right. I think it must have been Oakland, Milbrae, Richmond, Hayward, and Pleasanton, because it doesn't go any of the places I listed above.

The BART is Nice to get across the Bay Bridge, but it really doesn't compare to most other systems There is really only one track going through one end of SF, through downtown, and it really only goes to suburbs otherwise. Get me a motorcycle, OTOH, and living in the bay area rocks. Lots to do and see, it just isn't all feasible with public transit from Berkeley.

Chicago, DC, Boston, NY all beat Berkeley for ability to explore the CITY. I have plenty of friends who went to Berkeley for 5 years (which is typical, btw) and they hardly ever went to the rest of the bay area including the city. They also moved out of Berkeley pretty quickly and never looked back. The place seems great on paper, it just does not live up to the hype.

[hoopsguy6]

While I agree that Berkeley's ranking seems a bit inflated (I think it is firmly below HYSCC but on par with NYU and MVP), I absolutely love the school. People on here who think its grad programs' rankings are inflated know nothing and all the California haters are just resorting to inane ad hominem attacks that have little to no relevance on this discussion. New Haven sucks. No one is bashing Yale. Morons.

This has to be my favorite kind of arguing that takes place on TLS.

Thanks for the Warren reminder. It does actually help me have a more positive image of berkeley in my mind (although I still don't have any good recent affiliations other than Yoo).

I'm not saying Berkeley sucks, I'm just saying its overhyped and oversold. Berkeley's pretty nice, but not hands down the best place ever. At the end of the day, there are great things to be said about living in NY, Chicago, DC, and Boston. There are great things to be said about schools located in San Francisco, which Berkeley is not. But for certain people, it isn't even a question worth exploring: Could there be some value in leaving your nest in California and living in another major metropolitan city for a couple years? It is as if berkeley lovers have joined some kind of cult and can't be reasoned with. ITT, for example, 2/3 of berkeley's favorable arguments go like this: <3 [end rationale].

Nobody in this thread has said "Berkeley is the best place ever", nor did 2/3 of Berkeley defenders say "<3 [end rationale]". Most of the Berkeley bashing comes from U Chicago trolls who think it's the end of the world that another school is tied with them in the rankings. Get over it.

[Dignan]

No, of course Berkeley isn't the greatest place ever, but - putting aside law schools - I'd rather live in Berkeley than New Haven, Cambridge, Palo Alto, Hyde Park, Ann Arbor, Charlottesville or Philly. Really, Berkeley is in the coolest town of any T10 law school except NYU and Columbia.

Berkeley is way closer to SF than Yale is to New York, closer to SF than UofC/Northwestern are to cool parts of Chicago, just as close to SF as Harvard is to Boston, etc.

Either you've never actually lived in Berkeley or you don't know where NU law is located. UChicago is IN CHICAGO, too. And on the lake, apparently off a bikepath up the lake to downtown and other cool parts of chicago. Also, having recently gone to Chicago, I can vouch that the trains are 90% better than the bart in terms of where they go. GULC is also apparently a cool location, although I haven't been there.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but you sound like someone who made an overly broad claim and who is now trying to defend it without any real information. I've visited all the places you described above, and I'm in agreement with Crackberry. UChicago is not really in Chicago, and it is easier to get to downtown SF from Berkeley than it is to get to downtown Chicago from Hyde Park. And, while there are a couple of cool areas in DC, the Capitol Hill area in which GULC is located is not one of them.

[crackberry]

UChicago is in Hyde Park. Yes, it is close to the lake, but it is not a nice area and not close to cool parts of Chicago. I actually forgot that Northwestern Law wasn't in Evanston (where the rest of the school is), so I take that back, but anyone who thinks NU and Berkeley are peers is delusional.

You are right. SF public transit is not good. But San Francisco is so small, you can get around if you want to. Also, I have lived in New York City and San Francisco. I prefer SF for so many reasons. And while I haven't lived in Berkeley for more than a summer, I have spent significant time there.

Also yeah, GULC is near Capitol Hill, which isn't exactly a "cool" area of DC - it is nowhere near Dupont or U-Street or Adams Morgan. It's also not T10.

[The Brainalist]

Nobody in this thread has said "Berkeley is the best place ever", nor did 2/3 of Berkeley defenders say "<3 [end rationale]". Most of the Berkeley bashing comes from U Chicago trolls who think it's the end of the world that another school is tied with them in the rankings. Get over it.

I double checked, and it wasn't a bunch of people doing it. It was boilercat twice (now 3 times) and someone else once. Boilercat seems like a lot of people.

I like Berkeley, and I went to school nearby, and met my girlfriend while she was going there. I don't hate berkeley, but I do think californians could stand to get a little bit of perspective and live in another city. We are way too insular, and I can see how east-coasters get sick of us acting like there is nothing better than these limited places. People in SF and Berkeley are the worst about this (from a native so-cal perspective). Just a lot of people there who are zealots when it comes to there being only two places worth living, Berkeley(or SF, depending) or (for some reason) Austin. A lot of people seemed to be going to austin because SF (or Berkeley) is not what it used to be. Gentrification, etc., has taken away a lot of the character and it is too expensive. I don't see what is so special about what SF and Berkeley have become. Starbucks, Trader Joe's, American Apparel. I can get that anywhere. If they were actually hippy towns, it would be something special, but it isn't.

[crackberry]

As someone who has lived for 5+ years in both places, San Francisco > New York. There, I said it.

[20160810]

Anyone who would rather live in Chicago than Berkeley is absolutely high. Quoth Weather.com:

Chicago right now is 29 degrees, 16 with the wind chill, snowy, with wind gusting to 34 mph.
Berkeley is 54 and cloudy, with a chance of rain. And that's about as bad as the weather ever gets there.

I've yet to see a better argument than "LOLBUTHIPPIES!"

[The Brainalist]

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but you sound like someone who made an overly broad claim and who is now trying to defend it without any real information. I've visited all the places you described above, and I'm in agreement with Crackberry. UChicago is not really in Chicago, and it is easier to get to downtown SF from Berkeley than it is to get to downtown Chicago from Hyde Park. And, while there are a couple of cool areas in DC, the Capitol Hill area in which GULC is located is not one of them.

You may be right about the area around GULC, I don't know.

I actually lived in Oakland (cheaper) and worked in SF. It is easy to get to anything right off the Bart in SF, which my work was since it was in a financial building. 90% of it, no, as I pointed out about the Bart above. I did not visit UChicago while I was in Chicago, but I did look it up and there is a train that goes pretty much straight there, the metro, from downtown. I could have rode a bike or walked there, and it was definitely in Chicago. Saying it isn't is a crazy assertion, it makes no sense at all. I bet Chicago students go downtown a lot more often than Berkeley students go to the city. People who live in Chicago go to downtown Chicago to shop, eat, museums, pretty much everyting, it seems. The UCB students I knew hardly ever went to the city after the first month living there, and I knew dozens. Berkeley is across a large body of water from SF. It is in something called the EAST BAY. Trust me, no one in SF would ever assert that berkeley is part of SF. You'd have to be part of the berkeley over-sellers to make that assertion.

[crackberry]

You may be right about the area around GULC, I don't know.

I actually lived in Oakland (cheaper) and worked in SF. It is easy to get to anything right off the Bart in SF, which my work was since it was in a financial building. 90% of it, no, as I pointed out about the Bart above. I did not visit UChicago while I was in Chicago, but I did look it up and there is a train that goes pretty much straight there, the metro, from downtown. I could have rode a bike or walked there, and it was definitely in Chicago. Saying it isn't is a crazy assertion, it makes no sense at all. I bet Chicago students go downtown a lot more often than Berkeley students go to the city. People who live in Chicago go to downtown Chicago to shop, eat, museums, pretty much everyting, it seems. The UCB students I knew hardly ever went to the city after the first month living there, and I knew dozens. Berkeley is across a large body of water from SF. It is in something called the EAST BAY. Trust me, no one in SF would ever assert that berkeley is part of SF. You'd have to be part of the berkeley over-sellers to make that assertion.

Of course Berkeley is not part of SF. It is not part of SF in the way that Harvard is not part of Boston (and Berkeley > Cambridge for sure).

This is clearly a personal decision, but for me, NorCal weather and outdoors opportunities (Yosemite, Tahoe) >>>>> Chicago weather and (lack of) Chicago outdoors opportunities. Museums are great, but how often can you go to the same museum? Three times/year max? Weather and outdoors stuff is all year round.

[hoopsguy6]

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but you sound like someone who made an overly broad claim and who is now trying to defend it without any real information. I've visited all the places you described above, and I'm in agreement with Crackberry. UChicago is not really in Chicago, and it is easier to get to downtown SF from Berkeley than it is to get to downtown Chicago from Hyde Park. And, while there are a couple of cool areas in DC, the Capitol Hill area in which GULC is located is not one of them.

You may be right about the area around GULC, I don't know.

I actually lived in Oakland (cheaper) and worked in SF. It is easy to get to anything right off the Bart in SF, which my work was since it was in a financial building. 90% of it, no, as I pointed out about the Bart above. I did not visit UChicago while I was in Chicago, but I did look it up and there is a train that goes pretty much straight there, the metro, from downtown. I could have rode a bike or walked there, and it was definitely in Chicago. Saying it isn't is a crazy assertion, it makes no sense at all. I bet Chicago students go downtown a lot more often than Berkeley students go to the city. People who live in Chicago go to downtown Chicago to shop, eat, museums, pretty much everyting, it seems. The UCB students I knew hardly ever went to the city after the first month living there, and I knew dozens. Berkeley is across a large body of water from SF. It is in something called the EAST BAY. Trust me, no one in SF would ever assert that berkeley is part of SF. You'd have to be part of the berkeley over-sellers to make that assertion.

Once again, nobody has ever said that Berkeley is in SF. I don't get why you have to make these huge strawman attacks. You don't like Berkeley. We get it.

[Dignan]

I actually lived in Oakland (cheaper) and worked in SF. It is easy to get to anything right off the Bart in SF, which my work was since it was in a financial building. 90% of it, no, as I pointed out about the Bart above. I did not visit UChicago while I was in Chicago, but I did look it up and there is a train that goes pretty much straight there, the metro, from downtown. I could have rode a bike or walked there, and it was definitely in Chicago. Saying it isn't is a crazy assertion, it makes no sense at all.

I'll tell you what is a crazy assertion: suggesting that you'd want to regularly walk or bike between Hyde Park and downtown Chicago.

I bet Chicago students go downtown a lot more often than Berkeley students go to the city.

I bet so too, but that's not because it's easier to get to downtown Chicago from Hyde Park than it is to get to downtown SF from Berkeley. It's because Berkeley is a pretty nice place to be when compared to Hyde Park. The city of Berkeley gives the students more of an incentive to hang out there. Your point is, if anything, in Berkeley's favor.

Look, this is a subjective discussion. And I can understand wanting to be somewhere other than Berkeley. In fact, I've lived my whole life in the Bay Area and I actually have a bias against attending Berkeley (even though it would be a good school for me academically) because I want to live in another area for a few years. Still, most 23-30 year-olds are going to prefer Berkeley to any school's location in the T14, save for perhaps NYC.

[Tofu]

this topic makes me wish ucla was a t6/10 law school haha

in terms of weather/girls, i personally prefer socal to norcal/anywhere else

[crackberry]

Harvard is like 2 miles from Boston. Berkeley's ~13 miles from SF.

2 might as well equal 13 here. You're not going to walk to Boston from Harvard and you're not going to walk to SF from Berkeley.

[The Brainalist]

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but you sound like someone who made an overly broad claim and who is now trying to defend it without any real information. I've visited all the places you described above, and I'm in agreement with Crackberry. UChicago is not really in Chicago, and it is easier to get to downtown SF from Berkeley than it is to get to downtown Chicago from Hyde Park. And, while there are a couple of cool areas in DC, the Capitol Hill area in which GULC is located is not one of them.

You may be right about the area around GULC, I don't know.

I actually lived in Oakland (cheaper) and worked in SF. It is easy to get to anything right off the Bart in SF, which my work was since it was in a financial building. 90% of it, no, as I pointed out about the Bart above. I did not visit UChicago while I was in Chicago, but I did look it up and there is a train that goes pretty much straight there, the metro, from downtown. I could have rode a bike or walked there, and it was definitely in Chicago. Saying it isn't is a crazy assertion, it makes no sense at all. I bet Chicago students go downtown a lot more often than Berkeley students go to the city. People who live in Chicago go to downtown Chicago to shop, eat, museums, pretty much everyting, it seems. The UCB students I knew hardly ever went to the city after the first month living there, and I knew dozens. Berkeley is across a large body of water from SF. It is in something called the EAST BAY. Trust me, no one in SF would ever assert that berkeley is part of SF. You'd have to be part of the berkeley over-sellers to make that assertion.

Once again, nobody has ever said that Berkeley is in SF. I don't get why you have to make these huge strawman attacks. You don't like Berkeley. We get it.

You Berkeley cult people. Dignan and Crackberry have both been making the assertion that Berkeley, 13 miles from SF apparently, is more convenient to SF than NU law to downtown Chicago. Dignan said UChicago is not even in Chicago. Now I'm the one with ridiculous arguments? I am merely emphasizing the distance from berkeley to the City by reminding people that it is not IN the city. Feel free to make the argument that the part around the college is one of the nicer neighborhoods for someont 23-30, but don't do it based upon association with SF.

Again, I like berkeley. If i could have afforded to live there, at least in the part near campus, I would have. I lived in downtown Oakland instead. I just don't think a nice neighborhood equates with the life experience you might gain by living for a couple of years inNY, or DC, or Cambridge - 2 miles from boston. But some people fight that with all their hearts, I find it to be a narrow nor-cal perspective that is pretty annoying.

[crackberry]

You Berkeley cult people. Dignan and Crackberry have both been making the assertion that Berkeley, 13 miles from SF apparently, is more convenient to SF than NU law to downtown Chicago. Dignan said UChicago is not even in Chicago. Now I'm the one with ridiculous arguments? I am merely emphasizing the distance from berkeley to the City by reminding people that it is not IN the city. Feel free to make the argument that the part around the college is one of the nicer neighborhoods for someont 23-30, but don't do it based upon association with SF.

I want to remind you that I said this:

UChicago is in Hyde Park. Yes, it is close to the lake, but it is not a nice area and not close to cool parts of Chicago. I actually forgot that Northwestern Law wasn't in Evanston (where the rest of the school is), so I take that back, but anyone who thinks NU and Berkeley are peers is delusional.

That said, the argument that Berkeley UGs didn't go into SF and therefore Berkeley students in general don't go to SF is ridiculous. At a whole bunch of colleges and universities in this country (practically every one with a Greek scene), the social life on campus is centered ON CAMPUS. Hell, even at USC — which is right in the heart of LA — undergrads rarely venture off campus. They party on campus. It's just what undergrads do. My friends who went to Harvard UG rarely left Cambridge. They certainly weren't traipsing into Boston every night.

Places like NYU and Columbia — schools without actual campuses — are exceptions to this rule. But to claim that there is something intrinsic about Berkeley that prevents its undergrads from exploring is absurd.

[Dignan]

You Berkeley cult people. Dignan and Crackberry have both been making the assertion that Berkeley, 13 miles from SF apparently, is more convenient to SF than NU law to downtown Chicago.

I never made that argument. Crackberry did, but he later corrected himself when he realized where the NU law campus is.

Dignan said UChicago is not even in Chicago. Now I'm the one with ridiculous arguments?

I'm not sure if your arguments are ridiculous, but you do tend to argue against positions that no one holds or that have since been corrected.

[hoopsguy6]

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but you sound like someone who made an overly broad claim and who is now trying to defend it without any real information. I've visited all the places you described above, and I'm in agreement with Crackberry. UChicago is not really in Chicago, and it is easier to get to downtown SF from Berkeley than it is to get to downtown Chicago from Hyde Park. And, while there are a couple of cool areas in DC, the Capitol Hill area in which GULC is located is not one of them.

You may be right about the area around GULC, I don't know.

I actually lived in Oakland (cheaper) and worked in SF. It is easy to get to anything right off the Bart in SF, which my work was since it was in a financial building. 90% of it, no, as I pointed out about the Bart above. I did not visit UChicago while I was in Chicago, but I did look it up and there is a train that goes pretty much straight there, the metro, from downtown. I could have rode a bike or walked there, and it was definitely in Chicago. Saying it isn't is a crazy assertion, it makes no sense at all. I bet Chicago students go downtown a lot more often than Berkeley students go to the city. People who live in Chicago go to downtown Chicago to shop, eat, museums, pretty much everyting, it seems. The UCB students I knew hardly ever went to the city after the first month living there, and I knew dozens. Berkeley is across a large body of water from SF. It is in something called the EAST BAY. Trust me, no one in SF would ever assert that berkeley is part of SF. You'd have to be part of the berkeley over-sellers to make that assertion.

Once again, nobody has ever said that Berkeley is in SF. I don't get why you have to make these huge strawman attacks. You don't like Berkeley. We get it.

You Berkeley cult people. Dignan and Crackberry have both been making the assertion that Berkeley, 13 miles from SF apparently, is more convenient to SF than NU law to downtown Chicago. Dignan said UChicago is not even in Chicago. Now I'm the one with ridiculous arguments? I am merely emphasizing the distance from berkeley to the City by reminding people that it is not IN the city. Feel free to make the argument that the part around the college is one of the nicer neighborhoods for someont 23-30, but don't do it based upon association with SF.

Again, I like berkeley. If i could have afforded to live there, at least in the part near campus, I would have. I lived in downtown Oakland instead. I just don't think a nice neighborhood equates with the life experience you might gain by living for a couple of years inNY, or DC, or Cambridge - 2 miles from boston. But some people fight that with all their hearts, I find it to be a narrow nor-cal perspective that is pretty annoying.

People who like a school don't spend their time trashing it on message boards, as you have done in this thread and a few others. Nobody has ever said "Berkeley is in SF", and when you get called out on it you just pretend like you said something completely different. You've been the most vocal anti-Berkeley voice in this thread, and now you complain about "Berkeley cult people" and close mindedness.

[09042014]

Berkeley is no better than MVP. And I'm not exactly convinced MVPB is all that better than NDC in terms of job placement.

Everything except HYSCC is regional to some extend. If you want California UCB is better than the MVPNDC and NYU, and maybe CC.

If you want NYC biglaw, Penn is a better bet.

[crackberry]

Berkeley is no better than MVP. And I'm not exactly convinced MVPB is all that better than NDC in terms of job placement.

Everything except HYSCC is regional to some extend. If you want California UCB is better than the MVPNDC and NYU, and maybe CC.

If you want NYC biglaw, Penn is a better bet.

You must have missed the part where this thread lost its way.

[emilybeth]

I bet Chicago students go downtown a lot more often than Berkeley students go to the city. People who live in Chicago go to downtown Chicago to shop, eat, museums, pretty much everyting, it seems. The UCB students I knew hardly ever went to the city after the first month living there, and I knew dozens. Berkeley is across a large body of water from SF. It is in something called the EAST BAY. Trust me, no one in SF would ever assert that berkeley is part of SF. You'd have to be part of the berkeley over-sellers to make that assertion.

Your friends are definitely a representative sample of the Berkeley Law population, and you should continue to use them to try to prove your straw-man points. The Bay may be a large body of water, but it takes BART less than five minutes to travel through/under it. (I've timed.)

I go into the city on average 2x a week, both during the week and on the weekends. I know people who go into the city way more than I do; I know people who never go in. I know students who live there and commute to Berkeley each morning. My roommate (non-law) lives in Berkeley and commutes into the city each morning. Like so much else having to do with the quality of life wherever you go to school, it depends on individual preference.

My favourite part of Berkeley is the fact that the student body self-selects. The students here are here not because it's #6 or even because it's top-10 (chances are we all chose between several great schools.) We're here because we want to be at Berkeley. Because there's something to be learned from this city, from its culture, even (gasp!) from its oft-feared neighbor Oakland, that you can't learn elsewhere.

The people spewing nonsense about smelly hippies and LSAT correlating with rigor of class discussion and not being in a cool enough locale? Never gonna come here. Which for some people is the #1 reason TO come here.

[ughOSU]

NU's location is pretty much the best in the T10.

[crackberry]

NU's location is pretty much the best in the T10.

Extremely blatant anti-NYU and (a little less blatant) anti-CLS trolling.

NYC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Chicago.

[The Brainalist]

I like the city of berkeley.
I like the movie theatre.
I like the restaurants (especially that rib place at the end of university)
I like the mountains.
I like the bay.
I like the bart.
I like that it is close to oakland, which has a place in my heart.

I also like a lot of other places. That doesn't mean I am only going to say nice things about it. I'm just trying to say it is overrated by people on this board. A lot of kool-aid being drunk here.

The school, I can take or leave. I like the gym and the pools. The campus is okay. Main library was okay. Not the best and not the worst I've ever seen. I don't get the urge to be one of about 35,000 students there, about 90% of which piddle around the state and aren't really exceptional.

Yes, I've been pretty consistent in knocking it. Kudos to anyone who gets in and goes to the law school, though. It is a competitive program and has great professional options. No doubt about that.