Honestly, how conservative is George Mason?

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carlkenneth
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Honestly, how conservative is George Mason?

Postby carlkenneth » Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:24 pm

I've heard that GMU is pretty conservative, libertarian, etc. I'm just wondering if anyone can shed light on whether or not this is true and how it plays out in the classroom, student life, etc. I'm an LGBT URM and I have pretty liberal/progressive views (some would say left-wing radical).

Would I hate it there? How much would I stand out? Its one of the schools that I'm considering, but I fear that it'll be the worse three years of my life. Any insight would be appreciated (esp from any 1L lurkers)?

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LawandOrder
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Re: Honestly, how conservative is George Mason?

Postby LawandOrder » Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:26 pm

George Mason is so conservative that Glenn Beck refused to apply.

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MURPH
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Re: Honestly, how conservative is George Mason?

Postby MURPH » Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:30 am

I spoke to a graduate from there about applying. The first thing she said was "If you don't mind the generally right wing leaning of the place..." She described herself as apolitical and said everything else was fine.

They have a chapter of the ACLU on campus. You should email them and ask. http://www.law.gmu.edu/students/orgs/aclu
If your goal is to work in a politically related field nothing will hone your skills better than being in a minority position. In my years at two state schools, getting two BAs, I've never had a professor self identify as either a libertarian or a conservative. I've heard of them but never actually had a class with them. I read on a blog after the 2004 election they studied the FEC donation list of which law profs gave to bush and which to Kerry. It was about 98% to Kerry. So if you find a few conservative professors in one place that place will probably be considered relatively conservative and you would be one of a few lucky law students to actually get a diversity of opinion while in school.

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USAO-vet
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Re: Honestly, how conservative is George Mason?

Postby USAO-vet » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:06 pm

Bump

Any more insight here? Tuition is cheap for in state and it's super convenient for me. Since I work in Alexandria and plan on attending an evening program, convenience is need. I'm considering Mason (over GW because of cost) if I don't get into Georgetown. Thoughts?

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ph14
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Re: Honestly, how conservative is George Mason?

Postby ph14 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:08 pm

I can't speak to GMU, but i'd imagine that it wouldn't really affect anything out of classroom discussion, mainly. Perhaps GMU ACS chapter will be smaller than other schools, but probably not else beyond that.

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midwest17
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Re: Honestly, how conservative is George Mason?

Postby midwest17 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:10 pm

I don't understand how this is a relevant consideration.

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ph14
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Re: Honestly, how conservative is George Mason?

Postby ph14 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:16 pm

midwest17 wrote:I don't understand how this is a relevant consideration.


It should be a relevant consideration. By that I mean, anything that affects whether or not you will be happy at law school for 3 years is a relevant consideration. But people should probably not think that they're going to get a much different law school experience if they go to a conservative leaning school rather than a liberal leaning school. I think people are envisioning Liberty University, or one of the schools founded on religious ideology, when you should should be envisioning, perhaps, is a slight shift in attitude towards doctrines.

HYSenberg
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Re: Honestly, how conservative is George Mason?

Postby HYSenberg » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:20 pm

midwest17 wrote:I don't understand how this is a relevant consideration.


Some people want to be surrounded by people with identical political beliefs for 3 years lol.

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twenty
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Re: Honestly, how conservative is George Mason?

Postby twenty » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:22 pm

carlkenneth wrote:Its one of the schools that I'm considering, but I fear that it'll be the worse three years of my life.


You're considering paying tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars for a coin-flip* chance of actually practicing law when you graduate? (*it's actually <40% chance, since the school funded jobs there are pretty bad.)

This is like asking, "Should I cut off my hand? I worry that I'll have a harder time tying my shoes."

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midwest17
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Re: Honestly, how conservative is George Mason?

Postby midwest17 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:31 pm

ph14 wrote:
midwest17 wrote:I don't understand how this is a relevant consideration.


It should be a relevant consideration. By that I mean, anything that affects whether or not you will be happy at law school for 3 years is a relevant consideration. But people should probably not think that they're going to get a much different law school experience if they go to a conservative leaning school rather than a liberal leaning school. I think people are envisioning Liberty University, or one of the schools founded on religious ideology, when you should should be envisioning, perhaps, is a slight shift in attitude towards doctrines.


If being around people with different opinions makes someone unhappy, should they really be a lawyer?

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ph14
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Re: Honestly, how conservative is George Mason?

Postby ph14 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:33 pm

midwest17 wrote:
ph14 wrote:
midwest17 wrote:I don't understand how this is a relevant consideration.


It should be a relevant consideration. By that I mean, anything that affects whether or not you will be happy at law school for 3 years is a relevant consideration. But people should probably not think that they're going to get a much different law school experience if they go to a conservative leaning school rather than a liberal leaning school. I think people are envisioning Liberty University, or one of the schools founded on religious ideology, when you should should be envisioning, perhaps, is a slight shift in attitude towards doctrines.


If being around people with different opinions makes someone unhappy, should they really be a lawyer?


I said that it should be a relevant consideration. Not that it should be dispositive.

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midwest17
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Re: Honestly, how conservative is George Mason?

Postby midwest17 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:39 pm

ph14 wrote:
midwest17 wrote:
ph14 wrote:
midwest17 wrote:I don't understand how this is a relevant consideration.


It should be a relevant consideration. By that I mean, anything that affects whether or not you will be happy at law school for 3 years is a relevant consideration. But people should probably not think that they're going to get a much different law school experience if they go to a conservative leaning school rather than a liberal leaning school. I think people are envisioning Liberty University, or one of the schools founded on religious ideology, when you should should be envisioning, perhaps, is a slight shift in attitude towards doctrines.


If being around people with different opinions makes someone unhappy, should they really be a lawyer?


I said that it should be a relevant consideration. Not that it should be dispositive.


Any relevant consideration can be dispositive in the right circumstances.

My point is that for it to be relevant you need to be the kind of person who can't picture spending three years learning with people who are on average of a different ideology than you. I'm questioning whether such a person should be a lawyer.

Actually, I can see it being relevant if you're a liberal and want to study at a school with a lot of conservatives because you realize doing so will probably help your education. Or vice versa.

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lawhopeful10
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Re: Honestly, how conservative is George Mason?

Postby lawhopeful10 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:44 pm

twentypercentmore wrote:
carlkenneth wrote:Its one of the schools that I'm considering, but I fear that it'll be the worse three years of my life.


You're considering paying tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars for a coin-flip* chance of actually practicing law when you graduate? (*it's actually <40% chance, since the school funded jobs there are pretty bad.)

This is like asking, "Should I cut off my hand? I worry that I'll have a harder time tying my shoes."

This should be priority 1-10 and maybe like consideration #33 is the political atmosphere of the school.

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USAO-vet
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Re: Honestly, how conservative is George Mason?

Postby USAO-vet » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:01 pm

twentypercentmore wrote:
carlkenneth wrote:Its one of the schools that I'm considering, but I fear that it'll be the worse three years of my life.


You're considering paying tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars for a coin-flip* chance of actually practicing law when you graduate? (*it's actually <40% chance, since the school funded jobs there are pretty bad.)

This is like asking, "Should I cut off my hand? I worry that I'll have a harder time tying my shoes."


What a little turd burgling know-it-all you are. If I decide to attend George Mason my COA will be ~10k a year because I'm instate and will be receiving a scholarship amounting to half tuition under the Yellow Ribbon Program because I'm a veteran. Additionally, my work experience has allowed me to rub shoulders with some our nations most preeminent lawyers, several of whom have already offered their assistance when I begin looking for employment after graduation. While you're selling your soul and getting shit on in Big Law (if you're fucking lucky) I'll be debt free, likely enjoying a fulfilling career as a federal prosecutor, actually trying cases instead of doing doc review and sucking on some partners balls. Cheers.

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USAO-vet
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Re: Honestly, how conservative is George Mason?

Postby USAO-vet » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:03 pm

ph14 wrote:I can't speak to GMU, but i'd imagine that it wouldn't really affect anything out of classroom discussion, mainly. Perhaps GMU ACS chapter will be smaller than other schools, but probably not else beyond that.


Good points. Thanks.

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USAO-vet
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Re: Honestly, how conservative is George Mason?

Postby USAO-vet » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:09 pm

Any relevant consideration can be dispositive in the right circumstances.

My point is that for it to be relevant you need to be the kind of person who can't picture spending three years learning with people who are on average of a different ideology than you. I'm questioning whether such a person should be a lawyer.

Actually, I can see it being relevant if you're a liberal and want to study at a school with a lot of conservatives because you realize doing so will probably help your education. Or vice versa.


I honestly enjoy engaging persons with different political philosophies. GMU's econ program is extremely libertarian though and I've heard that that spills over into the law school some. I just don't want to be subjected to constant voodoo economic thought. I went to a lecture a while back that included one of the school foremost econ professors and he came across a quack that just repeated anecdotal bullshit -- not exactly my cup of tea.

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midwest17
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Re: Honestly, how conservative is George Mason?

Postby midwest17 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:12 pm

USAO-vet wrote:
twentypercentmore wrote:
carlkenneth wrote:Its one of the schools that I'm considering, but I fear that it'll be the worse three years of my life.


You're considering paying tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars for a coin-flip* chance of actually practicing law when you graduate? (*it's actually <40% chance, since the school funded jobs there are pretty bad.)

This is like asking, "Should I cut off my hand? I worry that I'll have a harder time tying my shoes."


What a little turd burgling know-it-all you are. If I decide to attend George Mason my COA will be ~10k a year because I'm instate and will be receiving a scholarship amounting to half tuition under the Yellow Ribbon Program because I'm a veteran. Additionally, my work experience has allowed me to rub shoulders with some our nations most preeminent lawyers, several of whom have already offered their assistance when I begin looking for employment after graduation. While you're selling your soul and getting shit on in Big Law (if you're fucking lucky) I'll be debt free, likely enjoying a fulfilling career as a federal prosecutor, actually trying cases instead of doing doc review and sucking on some partners balls. Cheers.


You sound cool.

HYSenberg
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Re: Honestly, how conservative is George Mason?

Postby HYSenberg » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:13 pm

USAO-vet wrote:
twentypercentmore wrote:
carlkenneth wrote:Its one of the schools that I'm considering, but I fear that it'll be the worse three years of my life.


You're considering paying tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars for a coin-flip* chance of actually practicing law when you graduate? (*it's actually <40% chance, since the school funded jobs there are pretty bad.)

This is like asking, "Should I cut off my hand? I worry that I'll have a harder time tying my shoes."


What a little turd burgling know-it-all you are. If I decide to attend George Mason my COA will be ~10k a year because I'm instate and will be receiving a scholarship amounting to half tuition under the Yellow Ribbon Program because I'm a veteran. Additionally, my work experience has allowed me to rub shoulders with some our nations most preeminent lawyers, several of whom have already offered their assistance when I begin looking for employment after graduation. While you're selling your soul and getting shit on in Big Law (if you're fucking lucky) I'll be debt free, likely enjoying a fulfilling career as a federal prosecutor, actually trying cases instead of doing doc review and sucking on some partners balls. Cheers.


You are so cool.

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rinkrat19
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Re: Honestly, how conservative is George Mason?

Postby rinkrat19 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:14 pm

USAO-vet wrote:
twentypercentmore wrote:
carlkenneth wrote:Its one of the schools that I'm considering, but I fear that it'll be the worse three years of my life.


You're considering paying tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars for a coin-flip* chance of actually practicing law when you graduate? (*it's actually <40% chance, since the school funded jobs there are pretty bad.)

This is like asking, "Should I cut off my hand? I worry that I'll have a harder time tying my shoes."


What a little turd burgling know-it-all you are. If I decide to attend George Mason my COA will be ~10k a year because I'm instate and will be receiving a scholarship amounting to half tuition under the Yellow Ribbon Program because I'm a veteran. Additionally, my work experience has allowed me to rub shoulders with some our nations most preeminent lawyers, several of whom have already offered their assistance when I begin looking for employment after graduation. While you're selling your soul and getting shit on in Big Law (if you're fucking lucky) I'll be debt free, likely enjoying a fulfilling career as a federal prosecutor, actually trying cases instead of doing doc review and sucking on some partners balls. Cheers.

Hypersensitive douchebag much? Slow your roll, dude.

HYSenberg
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Re: Honestly, how conservative is George Mason?

Postby HYSenberg » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:18 pm

midwest17 wrote:You sound cool.

Damnit, you beat me to a sardonic reply.

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Nova
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Re: Honestly, how conservative is George Mason?

Postby Nova » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:18 pm

USAO-vet wrote:likely enjoying a fulfilling career as a federal prosecutor.

You are a very special snowflake, huh?

Attending GMU = PROBABLY not gonna get a non-school funded long term full time legal job.
50.9% of graduates were known to be employed in long-term, full-time legal jobs. 1.4% of these jobs were school-funded jobs.
1.8% work for the feds


http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=gmu

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Ramius
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Re: Honestly, how conservative is George Mason?

Postby Ramius » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:19 pm

USAO-vet wrote:
twentypercentmore wrote:
carlkenneth wrote:Its one of the schools that I'm considering, but I fear that it'll be the worse three years of my life.


You're considering paying tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars for a coin-flip* chance of actually practicing law when you graduate? (*it's actually <40% chance, since the school funded jobs there are pretty bad.)

This is like asking, "Should I cut off my hand? I worry that I'll have a harder time tying my shoes."


What a little turd burgling know-it-all you are. If I decide to attend George Mason my COA will be ~10k a year because I'm instate and will be receiving a scholarship amounting to half tuition under the Yellow Ribbon Program because I'm a veteran. Additionally, my work experience has allowed me to rub shoulders with some our nations most preeminent lawyers, several of whom have already offered their assistance when I begin looking for employment after graduation. While you're selling your soul and getting shit on in Big Law (if you're fucking lucky) I'll be debt free, likely enjoying a fulfilling career as a federal prosecutor, actually trying cases instead of doing doc review and sucking on some partners balls. Cheers.


Jesus dude, relax. They are explaining a simple reality to you: GMU will do little to get you a job after graduation, particularly in highly desirable outcomes. You may be different and have an in at a desirable outcome for one reason or another, but the fact remains: for your average cost/benefit outcome, GMU isn't worth it. If your calculus is different, good for you and I hope you make a decision free from what we have to tell you on this board.

For the record, don't consider GI Bill or YRP to be a safety net from making a bad decision. A free law school education can still be a mistake. Think long and hard about your options and figure out your own future, cause no one on here will ever be able to do that.

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USAO-vet
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Re: Honestly, how conservative is George Mason?

Postby USAO-vet » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:23 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:
USAO-vet wrote:
twentypercentmore wrote:
carlkenneth wrote:Its one of the schools that I'm considering, but I fear that it'll be the worse three years of my life.


You're considering paying tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars for a coin-flip* chance of actually practicing law when you graduate? (*it's actually <40% chance, since the school funded jobs there are pretty bad.)

This is like asking, "Should I cut off my hand? I worry that I'll have a harder time tying my shoes."


What a little turd burgling know-it-all you are. If I decide to attend George Mason my COA will be ~10k a year because I'm instate and will be receiving a scholarship amounting to half tuition under the Yellow Ribbon Program because I'm a veteran. Additionally, my work experience has allowed me to rub shoulders with some our nations most preeminent lawyers, several of whom have already offered their assistance when I begin looking for employment after graduation. While you're selling your soul and getting shit on in Big Law (if you're fucking lucky) I'll be debt free, likely enjoying a fulfilling career as a federal prosecutor, actually trying cases instead of doing doc review and sucking on some partners balls. Cheers.

Hypersensitive douchebag much? Slow your roll, dude.


Haha! Slow my roll?!?!?! I fucking hate that stupid saying. When I was in college I remember going out with this little skank who said that to me when I made a move on her, trying to pretend like she didn't plan on choking on my ween a few minutes later. Oh, memories.

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midwest17
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Re: Honestly, how conservative is George Mason?

Postby midwest17 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:25 pm

USAO-vet wrote:Haha! Slow my roll?!?!?! I fucking hate that stupid saying. When I was in college I remember going out with this little skank who said that to me when I made a move on her, trying to pretend like she didn't plan on choking on my ween a few minutes later. Oh, memories.


I take it back. You have all the makings of a fine prosecutor.

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USAO-vet
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Re: Honestly, how conservative is George Mason?

Postby USAO-vet » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:26 pm

matthewsean85 wrote:
USAO-vet wrote:
twentypercentmore wrote:
carlkenneth wrote:Its one of the schools that I'm considering, but I fear that it'll be the worse three years of my life.


You're considering paying tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars for a coin-flip* chance of actually practicing law when you graduate? (*it's actually <40% chance, since the school funded jobs there are pretty bad.)

This is like asking, "Should I cut off my hand? I worry that I'll have a harder time tying my shoes."


What a little turd burgling know-it-all you are. If I decide to attend George Mason my COA will be ~10k a year because I'm instate and will be receiving a scholarship amounting to half tuition under the Yellow Ribbon Program because I'm a veteran. Additionally, my work experience has allowed me to rub shoulders with some our nations most preeminent lawyers, several of whom have already offered their assistance when I begin looking for employment after graduation. While you're selling your soul and getting shit on in Big Law (if you're fucking lucky) I'll be debt free, likely enjoying a fulfilling career as a federal prosecutor, actually trying cases instead of doing doc review and sucking on some partners balls. Cheers.


Jesus dude, relax. They are explaining a simple reality to you: GMU will do little to get you a job after graduation, particularly in highly desirable outcomes. You may be different and have an in at a desirable outcome for one reason or another, but the fact remains: for your average cost/benefit outcome, GMU isn't worth it. If your calculus is different, good for you and I hope you make a decision free from what we have to tell you on this board.

For the record, don't consider GI Bill or YRP to be a safety net from making a bad decision. A free law school education can still be a mistake. Think long and hard about your options and figure out your own future, cause no one on here will ever be able to do that.


Thanks for the response. I understand what you're saying and Mason isn't my first choice. It's quite tempting though when I consider I'd be able to get out with no debt and likely end up doing the same thing I would be if I went to Georgetown, the top school I'm considering.




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