Rank schools for Chicago legal Market only

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09042014
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Rank schools for Chicago legal Market only

Postby 09042014 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:00 pm

I'm bored at work so here it goes:

Which schools are best at placing you into the Chicago legal market? Note that this is different than asking where did most Chicago lawyers come from, because Yale grads could come to Chicago and get jobs, but most select not do?

I'm going to pull a starting list out of my ass so we have something to argue about right off the bat.

Yale
Harvard
UChicago/Stanford
Columbia
Michigan
Northwestern
Penn/UVA/NYU
Duke/GULC/Cornell
UIUC
Wustl/ND
Minn/Iowa/Wisco/
IUB/OSU
ChiKent/Depaul/Loyola

So where did I go wrong?

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t_flores08
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Re: Rank schools for Chicago legal Market only

Postby t_flores08 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:04 pm

Desert Fox wrote:I'm bored at work so here it goes:

Which schools are best at placing you into the Chicago legal market? Note that this is different than asking where did most Chicago lawyers come from, because Yale grads could come to Chicago and get jobs, but most select not do?

I'm going to pull a starting list out of my ass so we have something to argue about right off the bat.

Yale
Harvard
UChicago/Stanford
Columbia
Michigan
Northwestern
Penn/UVA/NYU
Duke/GULC/Cornell
UIUC
Wustl/ND
Minn/Iowa/Wisco/
IUB/OSU
ChiKent/Depaul/Loyola

So where did I go wrong?


This is of particular interest to me since I hope to practice in Chicago someday and over half of my apps went to schools that feed into Chicago. Do you think that Illinois places better in Chicago than WUSTL and ND? If anything, I would think those two schools have better placement, if not equal to UIUC.

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scribelaw
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Re: Rank schools for Chicago legal Market only

Postby scribelaw » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:05 pm

I'll bite, but this is without any real evidence:

Chicago
HYS
Northwestern
Michigan
U-Illinois/ND
Columbia
Rest of T-14
WUSTL
Minn/Indiana/Iowa

Rather than straight rankings/prestige, worth considering alumni networks, etc.
Last edited by scribelaw on Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

09042014
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Re: Rank schools for Chicago legal Market only

Postby 09042014 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:09 pm

t_flores08 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:I'm bored at work so here it goes:

Which schools are best at placing you into the Chicago legal market? Note that this is different than asking where did most Chicago lawyers come from, because Yale grads could come to Chicago and get jobs, but most select not do?

I'm going to pull a starting list out of my ass so we have something to argue about right off the bat.

Yale
Harvard
UChicago/Stanford
Columbia
Michigan
Northwestern
Penn/UVA/NYU
Duke/GULC/Cornell
UIUC
Wustl/ND
Minn/Iowa/Wisco/
IUB/OSU
ChiKent/Depaul/Loyola

So where did I go wrong?


This is of particular interest to me since I hope to practice in Chicago someday and over half of my apps went to schools that feed into Chicago. Do you think that Illinois places better in Chicago than WUSTL and ND? If anything, I would think those two schools have better placement, if not equal to UIUC.


This is a pretty uninformed opinion, but I think UIUC places ever so slight better than WUSTL and ND in Chicago. But WUSTL and ND have better placement (ITE is pretty damn small but still) in other markets. UIUC only places in Chicago. Personally I would go to whichever gave me more money.

jerjon2
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Re: Rank schools for Chicago legal Market only

Postby jerjon2 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:21 pm

Desert Fox wrote:I'm bored at work so here it goes:

Which schools are best at placing you into the Chicago legal market? Note that this is different than asking where did most Chicago lawyers come from, because Yale grads could come to Chicago and get jobs, but most select not do?

I'm going to pull a starting list out of my ass so we have something to argue about right off the bat.

Yale
Harvard
UChicago/Stanford
Columbia
Michigan
Northwestern
Penn/UVA/NYU
Duke/GULC/Cornell
UIUC
Wustl/ND
Minn/Iowa/Wisco/
IUB/OSU
ChiKent/Depaul/Loyola

So where did I go wrong?


I almost agree with this, I would go more like

Yale/Harvard
UChicago/Stanford
Columbia
Michigan/Northwestern
Penn/UVA/NYU
Duke/GULC/Cornell
UIUC
Wustl/ND
Minn/Iowa/Wisco/
IUB/OSU
ChiKent/Depaul/Loyola

09042014
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Re: Rank schools for Chicago legal Market only

Postby 09042014 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:23 pm

jerjon2 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:I'm bored at work so here it goes:

Which schools are best at placing you into the Chicago legal market? Note that this is different than asking where did most Chicago lawyers come from, because Yale grads could come to Chicago and get jobs, but most select not do?

I'm going to pull a starting list out of my ass so we have something to argue about right off the bat.

Yale
Harvard
UChicago/Stanford
Columbia
Michigan
Northwestern
Penn/UVA/NYU
Duke/GULC/Cornell
UIUC
Wustl/ND
Minn/Iowa/Wisco/
IUB/OSU
ChiKent/Depaul/Loyola

So where did I go wrong?


I almost agree with this, I would go more like

Yale/Harvard
UChicago/Stanford
Columbia
Michigan/Northwestern
Penn/UVA/NYU
Duke/GULC/Cornell
UIUC
Wustl/ND
Minn/Iowa/Wisco/
IUB/OSU
ChiKent/Depaul/Loyola


I think yours makes more sense.

awesomepossum
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Re: Rank schools for Chicago legal Market only

Postby awesomepossum » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:25 pm

I think the question is this. Are you trying to figure out which school sends more people OR which school gives you the best odds of getting a job in that market?

If it's the latter, after U. Chicago and NU, it's probably the T14 straight up. I would also be surprised if NU gives you better odds than say Harvard at getting you a job in Chicago but I don't really know.

jerjon2
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Re: Rank schools for Chicago legal Market only

Postby jerjon2 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:26 pm

I thought about it for a long time since I want to work in Chicago. The Northwestern=Michigan was a big deal for me because I thought I had very little chance at getting into UChicago and Northwestern (no WE and numbers really low for UChicago) so Michigan was one of my top choices.

09042014
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Re: Rank schools for Chicago legal Market only

Postby 09042014 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:28 pm

awesomepossum wrote:I think the question is this. Are you trying to figure out which school sends more people OR which school gives you the best odds of getting a job in that market?

If it's the latter, after U. Chicago and NU, it's probably the T14 straight up. I would also be surprised if NU gives you better odds than say Harvard at getting you a job in Chicago but I don't really know.


The latter.

I bet HYS and Columbia gives a person a better shot than NU. Maybe even Michigan.

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scribelaw
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Re: Rank schools for Chicago legal Market only

Postby scribelaw » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:33 pm

Is the thinking, Michigan > Northwestern for Chicago market? Really?

09042014
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Re: Rank schools for Chicago legal Market only

Postby 09042014 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:35 pm

scribelaw wrote:Is the thinking, Michigan > Northwestern for Chicago market? Really?

I'm not sure. Going through big chicago firms there are a lot of both. If there is a difference in Chicago placement its not huge.

jerjon2
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Re: Rank schools for Chicago legal Market only

Postby jerjon2 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:37 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
scribelaw wrote:Is the thinking, Michigan > Northwestern for Chicago market? Really?

I'm not sure. Going through big chicago firms there are a lot of both. If there is a difference in Chicago placement its not huge.


I always thought they were approximately equal perhaps giving the edge to Northwestern since they likely place a larger percentage because of location. I think either gives a good shot at Chicago biglaw.

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Joga Bonito
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Re: Rank schools for Chicago legal Market only

Postby Joga Bonito » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:38 pm

Yale
Harvard
UChicago
Stanford
Northwestern
Columbia
Michigan
Penn/NYU
GULC/Duke
Cornell
UVA
UIUC/Wustl/ND
Minn/Wisco/IUB/Iowa
OSU
ChiKent/Depaul/Loyola

hiro86
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Re: Rank schools for Chicago legal Market only

Postby hiro86 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:40 pm

NU is clearly better for Chicago big law than Michigan. The fact that NU has consistently out placed Michigan in big law (in general) is all the evidence one needs.

jerjon2
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Re: Rank schools for Chicago legal Market only

Postby jerjon2 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:44 pm

hiro86 wrote:NU is clearly better for Chicago big law than Michigan. The fact that NU has consistently out placed Michigan in big law (in general) is all the evidence one needs.


What percentage do each place in biglaw in general? (Prior to ITE I guess, or even now)

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Joga Bonito
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Re: Rank schools for Chicago legal Market only

Postby Joga Bonito » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:45 pm

jerjon2 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
scribelaw wrote:Is the thinking, Michigan > Northwestern for Chicago market? Really?

I'm not sure. Going through big chicago firms there are a lot of both. If there is a difference in Chicago placement its not huge.


I always thought they were approximately equal perhaps giving the edge to Northwestern since they likely place a larger percentage because of location. I think either gives a good shot at Chicago biglaw.


All the lawyers I know at big firms in Chicago say the firms love Northwestern grads and Northwestern is in Chicago unlike Michigan. Basically Northwestern > Michigan for Chi.
Last edited by Joga Bonito on Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

starstruck393
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Re: Rank schools for Chicago legal Market only

Postby starstruck393 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:45 pm

hiro86 wrote:NU is clearly better for Chicago big law than Michigan. The fact that NU has consistently out placed Michigan in big law (in general) is all the evidence one needs.


That's not clear at all. I'd argue that the numbers are from self selection. Without more data you can't make a determination on which is better, only on which places more...

jerjon2
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Re: Rank schools for Chicago legal Market only

Postby jerjon2 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:53 pm

Joga Bonito wrote:
jerjon2 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
scribelaw wrote:Is the thinking, Michigan > Northwestern for Chicago market? Really?

I'm not sure. Going through big chicago firms there are a lot of both. If there is a difference in Chicago placement its not huge.


I always thought they were approximately equal perhaps giving the edge to Northwestern since they likely place a larger percentage because of location. I think either gives a good shot at Chicago biglaw.


All the lawyers I know at big firms in Chicago say the firms love Northwestern grads and Northwestern is in Chicago unlike Michigan.


For the record, I do think Northwestern does better than Michigan in Chicago. I just think a large part of Northwestern's doing better in Chicago is its location.

cubswin
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Re: Rank schools for Chicago legal Market only

Postby cubswin » Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:08 pm

jerjon2 wrote:Minn/Iowa/Wisco/
IUB/OSU
ChiKent/Depaul/Loyola


I'm seeing a lot of this on these lists, and it somewhat contradicts what I saw people claiming in a thread on the topic of "Iowa vs. Chicago-Kent for Chicago" topic. A lot of them were saying Kent grads would fare better in Chi than Iowa grads, since Chicago is essentially Kent's only market, and they have 3 years to network, more access to potential future employers, etc.

I was also under the the possible false impression that someone with a Kent degree was on at least slightly better off than Loyola/Depaul grads.

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Joga Bonito
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Re: Rank schools for Chicago legal Market only

Postby Joga Bonito » Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:17 pm

cubswin wrote:
jerjon2 wrote:Minn/Iowa/Wisco/
IUB/OSU
ChiKent/Depaul/Loyola


I'm seeing a lot of this on these lists, and it somewhat contradicts what I saw people claiming in a thread on the topic of "Iowa vs. Chicago-Kent for Chicago" topic. A lot of them were saying Kent grads would fare better in Chi than Iowa grads, since Chicago is essentially Kent's only market, and they have 3 years to network, more access to potential future employers, etc.

I was also under the the possible false impression that someone with a Kent degree was on at least slightly better off than Loyola/Depaul grads.


Yeahhhh, Iowa is a better school in general (overall instituation, educational quality, better name recognition, better alumni base in Chicago etc) so thats why I said it was better and I think it gives you more flexibility. But kent is better than Depaul (I think) and maybe as good or slightly better than Loyola(loyola has a healthy alumni base in Chi with some prominent alums and so does depaul.) But really at this point it doesn't matter much.

driveshaft
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Re: Rank schools for Chicago legal Market only

Postby driveshaft » Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:20 pm

Am I really the first person to point out the Berkeley is missing from most of these lists? I'm certainly no expert, but I would expect a Berkeley grad to have an easier time than a DePaul grad.

09042014
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Re: Rank schools for Chicago legal Market only

Postby 09042014 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:22 pm

driveshaft wrote:Am I really the first person to point out the Berkeley is missing from most of these lists? I'm certainly no expert, but I would expect a Berkeley grad to have an easier time than a DePaul grad.


Ha sorry, not anti Berekely trolling., I just forgot to add it. I'd put it even with UVA, Penn and NYU.

09042014
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Re: Rank schools for Chicago legal Market only

Postby 09042014 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:27 pm

cubswin wrote:
jerjon2 wrote:Minn/Iowa/Wisco/
IUB/OSU
ChiKent/Depaul/Loyola


I'm seeing a lot of this on these lists, and it somewhat contradicts what I saw people claiming in a thread on the topic of "Iowa vs. Chicago-Kent for Chicago" topic. A lot of them were saying Kent grads would fare better in Chi than Iowa grads, since Chicago is essentially Kent's only market, and they have 3 years to network, more access to potential future employers, etc.

I was also under the the possible false impression that someone with a Kent degree was on at least slightly better off than Loyola/Depaul grads.


I think Iowa is better than Kent at big law. As for networking with smaller firms, government jobs, they very may be right.

I've heard it both ways for Kent Vs Depaul/Loyola. I suspect different firms have favorites. I don't really know because I never seriously considered any of them because they'd never give me a full ride, adn they don't place well enough to pay for.

jerjon2
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Re: Rank schools for Chicago legal Market only

Postby jerjon2 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:38 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
cubswin wrote:
jerjon2 wrote:Minn/Iowa/Wisco/
IUB/OSU
ChiKent/Depaul/Loyola


I'm seeing a lot of this on these lists, and it somewhat contradicts what I saw people claiming in a thread on the topic of "Iowa vs. Chicago-Kent for Chicago" topic. A lot of them were saying Kent grads would fare better in Chi than Iowa grads, since Chicago is essentially Kent's only market, and they have 3 years to network, more access to potential future employers, etc.

I was also under the the possible false impression that someone with a Kent degree was on at least slightly better off than Loyola/Depaul grads.


I think Iowa is better than Kent at big law. As for networking with smaller firms, government jobs, they very may be right.

I've heard it both ways for Kent Vs Depaul/Loyola. I suspect different firms have favorites. I don't really know because I never seriously considered any of them because they'd never give me a full ride, adn they don't place well enough to pay for.


When I quoted DesertFox's list and made changes to it, it was only to reflect my opinion on the top schools on it, I don't really have any thing to say about those schools in question.

Kobe_Teeth
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Re: Rank schools for Chicago legal Market only

Postby Kobe_Teeth » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:51 am

I just read on UIUC's website that they are the third best placing school in Chicago.

FWIW...




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