Class of 2013 Employment Data Forum

[20141023]

.

[Cobretti]

your NU data for 2015/2016 is off. NU cut class size this last cycle, so I think you're likely not including either the AJDs or JD/MBAs in the 2015 #.

[20141023]

.

[worldtraveler]

I really doubt participation is only 78% at Michigan. Here they say 380 2Ls and 3Ls participated in OCI, so unless a pretty huge number of 3Ls are going through OCI (which could be viewed as a bit of bad sign on its own aside from no offers), I don't see how you'd get that number.

I'm just giving people the information I was told. Interpret it however you wish. Just realize that the stats you're citing don't disprove what I'm saying/was told since it doesn't differentiate between 2l and 3l students, nor does it specify whether or not the 380 includes public interest groups that come to OCI (which are included in the OCI information a few sentences before the number you're citing). The 78% is allegedly the number interviewing for big firms.

I mean, when I see 78% of Mich 2L's participated in OCI, I'm thinking the bottom 15% or so didn't because, why the fuck would they, and I can believe some 5-7% are legitimate holdouts for public interest - even at CLS some top and above median students don't do EIP, usually to chase IHR unicorns. In fact, I'm guessing some single digit percentage of students at every T14 except Yale who COULD get jobs don't participate at all in on-campus firm recruiting. So I'm not sure how that helps explain Michigan numbers specifically.

Berkeley has similar numbers that opt out of OCI or do it but only for plaintiff side firms. I don't think MI's opt-out numbers are that much higher than peer schools. It would be helpful if we knew OCI figures at each school though. I gather that at some opting out is far less common.

[Tiago Splitter]

your NU data for 2015/2016 is off. NU cut class size this last cycle, so I think you're likely not including either the AJDs or JD/MBAs in the 2015 #.

Good catch - the class size (206) for the C/O 2015 didn't include AJD's or JD-MBA's. It looks like the class size is correct for C/O 2016 (based on the Standard 509 Information Report and this, there were 174 JD matrics, 28 AJD matrics, and 27 JD-MBA matrics for a total of 229 for the entering class of 2013). I've updated it to reflect the correct numbers.

Anyway, for the past 10 years, the max entering class was 4,497, and the minimum entering class size was 4,264, which comes out to a difference of 223 students. This means that there has been at most a 5% variation in the total number of students attending T14 schools over the past decade.

It also looks like you didn't include GULC part time students up until recently. LST has them at 591 1L's entering in 2010 while you put them at 469. Not a huge difference but it's something. We'll see if the downward trend continues this fall.

[20141023]

.

[MissouriMisery]

Anybody called berkeley and asked about employment? I mean, I doubt it changed much, but at this point I'm just curious.

[worldtraveler]

Anybody called berkeley and asked about employment? I mean, I doubt it changed much, but at this point I'm just curious.

I know that we had good clerkship numbers and now have postgrad fellowships, so expect unemployment to be very low, but beyond that I don't really know.

[McGruff]

,

[carolinainmymind]

your NU data for 2015/2016 is off. NU cut class size this last cycle, so I think you're likely not including either the AJDs or JD/MBAs in the 2015 #.

Good catch - the class size (206) for the C/O 2015 didn't include AJD's or JD-MBA's. It looks like the class size is correct for C/O 2016 (based on the Standard 509 Information Report and this, there were 174 JD matrics, 28 AJD matrics, and 27 JD-MBA matrics for a total of 229 for the entering class of 2013). I've updated it to reflect the correct numbers.

Anyway, for the past 10 years, the max entering class was 4,497, and the minimum entering class size was 4,264, which comes out to a difference of 223 students. This means that there has been at most a 5% variation in the total number of students attending T14 schools over the past decade.

It also looks like you didn't include GULC part time students up until recently. LST has them at 591 1L's entering in 2010 while you put them at 469. Not a huge difference but it's something. We'll see if the downward trend continues this fall.

Damn... good catch, again. With that being the case, the Class of 2016 has the lowest T14 enrollment of the past 10 years (4,286 students), which is 333 students less than the peak enrollment during that time - the Class of 2013 (4,619 students).

Was told at UVA's open house this weekend that they are planning on shrinking c/o 2017 even further than 2016. Apparently they are targeting 300 this year, down from 330 last year and 350-360 from prior years. Came from a current student, not the school though. Could be looking at an even smaller c/o 2017 for the t14 if this is true and others are doing the same.

[Cobretti]

,

lol waited too long to quote you, you magnificent trolling bastard

[lecsa]

.

[BigZuck]

Anybody called berkeley and asked about employment? I mean, I doubt it changed much, but at this point I'm just curious.

Maybe it's bad and that's why they are holding out

I'd guess Berk's just doing that Berk thing that they do so well. Doubt they GAF that people are waiting for this info.

I'm sure they did just fine.

[arklaw13]

Emory is up. 61 + 16 /292= 26.4%. Down from 29% last year. School employed graduates is 21.2%, up from 13.9% last year. Ouch. Finally hits T20 but employs a fifth of its graduates.

[zman]

Emory is up. 61 + 16 /292= 26.4%. Down from 29% last year. School employed graduates is 21.2%, up from 13.9% last year. Ouch. Finally hits T20 but employs a fifth of its graduates.

That's the only reason they are top 20.. All those grads they hired are counted from US news which gave them a huge boost.

[cannibal ox]

Minnesota is up.

13.5% biglaw (15 + 9 + 13 = 37 / 274), 3.6% federal clerkships (10 / 274) = 17.1%.

[09042014]

Minnesota is up.

13.5% biglaw (15 + 9 + 13 = 37 / 274), 3.6% federal clerkships (10 / 274).

Brutal

[californiauser]

Minnesota is up.

13.5% biglaw (15 + 9 + 13 = 37 / 274), 3.6% federal clerkships (10 / 274).

Brutal

t20 dog

show some respect

[cannibal ox]

Minnesota actually has the exact same biglaw % as 2012, and the exact same number of federal clerks (10) as 2012.

[rpupkin]

Minnesota actually has the exact same biglaw % as 2012, and the exact same number of federal clerks (10) as 2012.

Like DF said, brutal.

[cannibal ox]

Agreed. For the record I just found it interesting, wasn't trying to defend the school.

[Tiago Splitter]

Agreed. For the record I just found it interesting, wasn't trying to defend the school.

We'll see if cutting the number of 1L's in Minnesota schools from 1000 down to 800 does the trick. I mean seriously MSP is a darkhorse for most saturated market in America.

[Otunga]

A school ranked as high as Minnesota has that percentage? It's a good exemplification of why the rankings suck.

[lecsa]

.

[Otunga]

A school ranked as high as Minnesota has that percentage? It's a good exemplification of why the rankings suck.

Maybe the lower ranked schools have even worse job prospects

Sure. But I was thinking more in the way that people use these things to make decisions about where to go to law school without looking at job stats. Minnesota being that high is deceptive.

Although there are a good number of schools that have a far better biglaw/fed clerkship percentage down the rankings.