Class of 2013 Employment Data Forum

[20141023]

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[Dr.Zer0]

Thank you Regulus! Will you be doing the same for Cal and Cornell once they release employment numbers?

[03152016]

Amazing, thanks for posting that.

[BVest]

A report from UT's ASW:

They told us we will be getting employment stats tomorrow [Friday] that should be out next week to all, I will post them up as soon as I get them.

[papercut]

Any idea on how the ABA enforces the disclosure due date? Are Berkeley et al going to have to pay some sort of fine?

[20141023]

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[cotiger]

Thank you Regulus! Will you be doing the same for Cal and Cornell once they release employment numbers?

Yeah, I'll update the post with graphs for those bastards as soon as they get with the program and release their employment data.

Any idea on how the ABA enforces the disclosure due date? Are Berkeley et al going to have to pay some sort of fine?

Kyle is probably the only one on here who will be able to answer this question.

Cornell actually posted theirs on time.

http://www.lawschool.cornell.edu/career ... istics.cfm

[rayiner]

Penn has closer to 6-7% JD-MBAs, rayiner, FWIW.

Interesting. Someone told me 3-4 people, but this was a couple of years ago and second-hand. Does Penn have a breakdown of what the JD-MBA's end up doing?

Here is some more stats: http://tippingthescales.com/2013/11/jdm ... o-get-both.

The size of the top JD/MBA programs varies widely. Northwestern has 27 JD/MBAs in the Class of 2016 and 70 of them on campus. Stanford has about 21 total, the biggest group since 1976. Penn’s JD/MBA count, with 14 in the Class of 2016 and 45 total, is slightly higher than Harvard’s, which is 10 in the newest class and 35 overall.

But at many schools—even elite schools—JD/MBAs are about as rare as unicorns. Drake says there are four other JD/MBAs in his year at Duke. An admissions representative at UC Berkeley says there might be one JD/MBA in this year’s incoming class, but she wasn’t sure; she estimates that the school gets about 20 JD/MBA applicants a year. Columbia doesn’t formally track the number, though the estimate there is slightly higher: 15 JD/MBAs in the Class of 2016.

Assuming graduating class size stays roughly the same, that's about 10% for NU/SLS, 5.5% for Penn, 3.5% for Columbia, 2.5% for Duke, 2% for HLS. So it would be good to read the business/industry categories for these schools consistently with these (rough) numbers.

[star fox]

If you had to guess would you say it's more likely firms dig deeper into the class at T14s or go after top 10 percent types at local schools moving forward with smaller law school class sizes?

[skers]

Dude reg, those graphs are pretty cool and all, but it's also spring break man.

[04102014]

Dude reg, those graphs are pretty cool and all, but it's also spring break man.

[bombaysippin]

Thank you Regulus! Will you be doing the same for Cal and Cornell once they release employment numbers?

[BVest]

Any idea on how the ABA enforces the disclosure due date? Are Berkeley et al going to have to pay some sort of fine?

This is from another thread:

Just to be clear, the status date is March 15th. The data are due to the ABA on March 17th (today). The ABA estimates a three-week turnaround, which puts the data out [on LST] on April 7th. The turnaround timeline is fuzzy. Other dates are hard.

[Emphasis added.]

Is it possible that there's another date by which the schools must publish the data? That is, maybe the schools have all reported to ABA in a timely fashion and don't have to publish until x date or until the ABA releases the data. Anyone know?

[Hrun]

Boston University Law

24.1 +2.5 = 26.61

https://www.bu.edu/law/prospective/care ... .17.14.pdf

[chuckbass]

Boston University Law

24.1 +2.5 = 26.61

https://www.bu.edu/law/prospective/care ... .17.14.pdf

BC killed them, damn.

[04102014]

Boston University Law

24.1 +2.5 = 26.61

https://www.bu.edu/law/prospective/care ... .17.14.pdf

[Otunga]

Boston University Law

24.1 +2.5 = 26.61

https://www.bu.edu/law/prospective/care ... .17.14.pdf

As a point in favor of BU, they placed 82% of their biglaw people into firms with 250+, with BC at 65%, and there's a thought out there that a lot of the 100+ jobs can be non-market salary, staff attorney gigs. That said, BC's overall advantage is tough to ignore.

[Hoosier2]

Boston University Law

24.1 +2.5 = 26.61

https://www.bu.edu/law/prospective/care ... .17.14.pdf

As a point in favor of BU, they placed 82% of their biglaw people into firms with 250+, with BC at 65%, and there's a thought out there that a lot of the 100+ jobs can be non-market salary, staff attorney gigs. That said, BC's overall advantage is tough to ignore.

Their numbers for placing into 250+ are almost identical
BC= 8+41=49/253= 19.3%
vs
BU=8+47-55/278=19.8%

[Otunga]

Boston University Law

24.1 +2.5 = 26.61

https://www.bu.edu/law/prospective/care ... .17.14.pdf

As a point in favor of BU, they placed 82% of their biglaw people into firms with 250+, with BC at 65%, and there's a thought out there that a lot of the 100+ jobs can be non-market salary, staff attorney gigs. That said, BC's overall advantage is tough to ignore.

Their numbers for placing into 250+ are almost identical
BC= 8+41=49/253= 19.3%
vs
BU=8+47-55/278=19.8%

Good point. I was just looking at a more narrow pool.

[rayiner]

Boston University Law

24.1 +2.5 = 26.61

https://www.bu.edu/law/prospective/care ... .17.14.pdf

As a point in favor of BU, they placed 82% of their biglaw people into firms with 250+, with BC at 65%, and there's a thought out there that a lot of the 100+ jobs can be non-market salary, staff attorney gigs. That said, BC's overall advantage is tough to ignore.

I don't know a single person with that sort of gig. Many of those firms are either boutiques or regional firms, but they're legit gigs.

[BigZuck]

0Ls at ASW are reporting UT at 42% (33 big law, 9 federal clerks). Data should be on the website next week some time.

[BVest]

UT, as reported from a 0L at accepted students' day.

Employment:
500+ - 91
251-500 - 23
101-250 - 12
51-100 - 7
26-50 - 9
11-25 - 18
2-10 - 35
Solo - 4
Fed clerks 34
Pi 16
Gov 35
Business and industry 28

Salary75th 160
Median - 100k
25th - 57k
Mean 106k

No denominator was reported by our intrepid correspondent. But he did report 33.33% biglaw, which would make for a denominator of 378 and numbers of 33.3% + 9.0%, for 42.3% 101+ and fed. (I also ran it with 2012 class size, which was was 373 and would make this 33.8% + 9.1% = 42.9%, so the 378 number is probably right.)

ETA: I know Zuck beat me, but thought I'd share the numbers anyway.

ETA2: For comparison, 2012 were 26.8+8.3=35.1%

[logicspeaks]

Georgetown is getting worried...

[JCougar]

Georgetown is getting worried...

I would be worried if I were Georgetown. Their law school does not have a very large endowment per student compared to the rest of the T14 (or even the rest of the T20). There's simply no way they can keep up scholarship-wise with everyone else in an environment where sticker is merely an inflated price point that is almost universally discounted to make people feel like they're getting a better deal than they actually are. You'd think they'd be able to take advantage of economies of scale due to their size, but it's just not translating into discounts. Their median will drop to 167 this year...down from 170 a few years ago. And their placement coupled with rising tuition in no way justifies sticker there. If the legal market continues the way it does, I think it's only a matter of time before someone like Texas or Vandy overtakes them. I'd say UCLA, too, but the CA economy might hold them back (plus the fact that UCI will be drawing applicants away).

[d cooper]

Georgetown is getting worried...

Although the 101+ and FedClerk numbers are almost identical, there is still a lead for GULC in terms of the prestige of those firm positions, as evidenced by the percent of the class going to 501+ firms.

GULC: 32.558%
Vanderbilt: 20.388%
Texas: 24.074%