CCNB - Public Interest & Quality of Life Forum

[law_monkey]

100% for less than 75K????!!!!!! Is that definitely going into effect for people starting in the Fall of 2011?

If so, then NYU PI > CLS PI suddenly becomes fact...

That's what they say. It sounds like when your annual income exceeds 75k a year you pay 40% of that income over 75k towards the loans.

Don't just look at numbers. Look at what types of employment are covered. Some LRAPs cover clerkships. Some don't. Some also cover UN work or work with non-profits in other countries, while others don't.

Yeah there are usually a couple loopholes in LRAP programs from what I've seen. Not that they're trying to trick people, but there are certain stipulations that apply. The type of job a person takes is often one of those details that vary from school to school. FWIW I've heard that NYU is EXTREMELY supportive of its PI students, so even if the LRAP is comparable to CLS' that added support and encouragement may be beneficial.

Also, I feel like location should play a role too since I've heard that the networking for PI is very important. In another thread someone mentioned that the one advantage of Chi's PI is that they'll know the PI contacts in that region, more so than the other schools will. Berk is a great school with a great rep, but if you're coming back to the northeast NYU/CLS might be better. But Berk would likely dominate the Cali PI employers.

ETA: Someone asked if NYU's new LRAP will take effect for the new class. According to their website it's for the Class of 2009 is later (which seems weird to me but is cool if it goes back to past classes like that).

[IndyHCKM]

ETA: Someone asked if NYU's new LRAP will take effect for the new class. According to their website it's for the Class of 2009 is later (which seems weird to me but is cool if it goes back to past classes like that).

During the ASW's session on the LRAP they confirmed that the new changes would apply to the incoming class for this fall. This includes the 100% coverage of loans under the 75k income level.

[mcweanis]

i'm choosing between nyu @ sticker, columbia @ sticker, or maybe some big money from penn (please toll, please!) so it is great to see that i am not the only one weighing this stuff. i'm leaning columbia for a. prestige outside of NY and b. i really want the campus setting. yay PI!

[deathviaboredom]

..

[fish52]

i'm choosing between nyu @ sticker, columbia @ sticker, or maybe some big money from penn (please toll, please!) so it is great to see that i am not the only one weighing this stuff. i'm leaning columbia for a. prestige outside of NY and b. i really want the campus setting. yay PI!

Campus setting of CLS? Have you been to CLS? lol

[mcweanis]

i mean the fact that cls has a campus, and nyu... doesn't. i love columbia's undergrad campus !!

[chasgoose]

i mean the fact that cls has a campus, and nyu... doesn't. i love columbia's undergrad campus !!

Agreed, but I thought the law school buildings were much nicer at NYU. I kind of like CLS's building from the outside, but I thought it was kind of bleak and depressing on the inside (especially the library) when I saw it on the admitted students days. Also Washington Square park is pretty. If we were debating about Columbia vs. NYU undergrad Columbia would win hands down, but Seeing as we will be spending more time in the law school part than the rest of either university, NYU sort of wins the campus argument for me.

[IndyHCKM]

Agreed, but I thought the law school buildings were much nicer at NYU. I kind of like CLS's building from the outside, but I thought it was kind of bleak and depressing on the inside (especially the library) when I saw it on the admitted students days. Also Washington Square park is pretty. If we were debating about Columbia vs. NYU undergrad Columbia would win hands down, but Seeing as we will be spending more time in the law school part than the rest of either university, NYU sort of wins the campus argument for me.

I tend to agree, except the library at NYU, while it has some nice looking parts, tends to get pretty run-down and decrepit the further into its depths you get. The main section with the staircase is indeed nice looking.

Similarly, I think many don't like Columbia's main floor. There are posters all over the walls, etc. If you go upstairs in John Greene however (the main building), the building is, in my opinion, very attractive. Wood paneling everywhere, and some nice portraits.

All in all, I think it boils down to NYU having a homier feel, while Columbia feels a bit more institutional. Both of their libraries have nice parts, while both have some pretty ugly parts. The benefit of Columbia is that you can easily go and study at some other really awesome libraries on the main campus. NYU... well, you probably could, if only you could locate them. I know that both campus' main undergrad library is open 24 hours a day. NYU's undergrad library is this seven story tall thing if I remember correctly.

Columbia's undergrad library is the Butler building.
--ImageRemoved-- (LinkRemoved)

Where you can study in rooms like this, which can be seen from outside of the building as the windows between the columns.
--ImageRemoved-- (LinkRemoved)

Also at Columbia there is a gym on the undergrad campus. While small, it's pretty convenient, and free to those paying student life fees associated with the law school. Behind that wood lattice fence thinger is a track
--ImageRemoved-- (LinkRemoved)

I asked about gyms at NYU. The only ones that were mentioned were all off-campus, pay-for-use institutions.

[4102011]

The NYU undergraduate library is 12 floors and is on Washington Square South as well (that big reddish building). Only the lower two levels (basement study lounges) are open 24/7 (the stacks close at night).

There are two NYU gyms that students use for free (including law students). One is at Mercer and Houston (so close to the Mercer dorm) and the other one is up at Union Square.

[IndyHCKM]

The NYU undergraduate library is 12 floors and is on Washington Square South as well (that big reddish building). Only the lower two levels (basement study lounges) are open 24/7 (the stacks close at night).

There are two NYU gyms that students use for free (including law students). One is at Mercer and Houston (so close to the Mercer dorm) and the other one is up at Union Square.

Do we know anything about how big these gyms are? Or how well equipped they are?

I know CLS has an indoor pool, some squash quarts, a fencing studio, and then in the picture above you can see what most of the weight rooms looked like, as well as the treadmills. I was a bit surprised at how small the whole thing appeared.

[99.9luft]

The NYU undergraduate library is 12 floors and is on Washington Square South as well (that big reddish building). Only the lower two levels (basement study lounges) are open 24/7 (the stacks close at night).

There are two NYU gyms that students use for free (including law students). One is at Mercer and Houston (so close to the Mercer dorm) and the other one is up at Union Square.

Do we know anything about how big these gyms are? Or how well equipped they are?

I know CLS has an indoor pool, some squash quarts, a fencing studio, and then in the picture above you can see what most of the weight rooms looked like, as well as the treadmills. I was a bit surprised at how small the whole thing appeared.

wait, what? a fencing studio. *epee boner*

[4102011]

At the one on Mercer, they have this big area that can be used for basketball/tennis/volleyball/etc (they have different...things they pull out. I don't know how it works). Rooftop track. Some kind of racketball or whatever rooms. Lots of ellipticals/machines/weights/treadmills/etc. Indoor pool. The one at Union Square just has the machines and whatnot (no sports stuff).

The one at Mercer goes two stories underground and is pretty huge. Union Square one is smaller.

[bellamy]

Agreed, but I thought the law school buildings were much nicer at NYU. I kind of like CLS's building from the outside, but I thought it was kind of bleak and depressing on the inside (especially the library) when I saw it on the admitted students days. Also Washington Square park is pretty. If we were debating about Columbia vs. NYU undergrad Columbia would win hands down, but Seeing as we will be spending more time in the law school part than the rest of either university, NYU sort of wins the campus argument for me.

I tend to agree, except the library at NYU, while it has some nice looking parts, tends to get pretty run-down and decrepit the further into its depths you get. The main section with the staircase is indeed nice looking.

Similarly, I think many don't like Columbia's main floor. There are posters all over the walls, etc. If you go upstairs in John Greene however (the main building), the building is, in my opinion, very attractive. Wood paneling everywhere, and some nice portraits.

All in all, I think it boils down to NYU having a homier feel, while Columbia feels a bit more institutional. Both of their libraries have nice parts, while both have some pretty ugly parts. The benefit of Columbia is that you can easily go and study at some other really awesome libraries on the main campus. NYU... well, you probably could, if only you could locate them. I know that both campus' main undergrad library is open 24 hours a day. NYU's undergrad library is this seven story tall thing if I remember correctly.

Columbia's undergrad library is the Butler building.
--ImageRemoved-- (LinkRemoved)

Where you can study in rooms like this, which can be seen from outside of the building as the windows between the columns.
--ImageRemoved-- (LinkRemoved)

Nice pictures. Thanks INDY

[chasgoose]

Agreed, but I thought the law school buildings were much nicer at NYU. I kind of like CLS's building from the outside, but I thought it was kind of bleak and depressing on the inside (especially the library) when I saw it on the admitted students days. Also Washington Square park is pretty. If we were debating about Columbia vs. NYU undergrad Columbia would win hands down, but Seeing as we will be spending more time in the law school part than the rest of either university, NYU sort of wins the campus argument for me.

I tend to agree, except the library at NYU, while it has some nice looking parts, tends to get pretty run-down and decrepit the further into its depths you get. The main section with the staircase is indeed nice looking.

Similarly, I think many don't like Columbia's main floor. There are posters all over the walls, etc. If you go upstairs in John Greene however (the main building), the building is, in my opinion, very attractive. Wood paneling everywhere, and some nice portraits.

All in all, I think it boils down to NYU having a homier feel, while Columbia feels a bit more institutional. Both of their libraries have nice parts, while both have some pretty ugly parts. The benefit of Columbia is that you can easily go and study at some other really awesome libraries on the main campus. NYU... well, you probably could, if only you could locate them. I know that both campus' main undergrad library is open 24 hours a day. NYU's undergrad library is this seven story tall thing if I remember correctly.

Columbia's undergrad library is the Butler building.
--ImageRemoved-- (LinkRemoved)

Where you can study in rooms like this, which can be seen from outside of the building as the windows between the columns.
--ImageRemoved-- (LinkRemoved)

Nice pictures. Thanks INDY

I agree, that Butler is nice, although my sister who is an undergrad at Columbia has told me she often flees to the law school library to study because it's sometimes hard to get work done there (also she views the fact that the law school library prevents undergrads from accessing the wireless as a plus).

[4102011]

New LRAP program at UChi!!

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/financialaid/LRAP

So amazingly the salary cap is $80k and judicial clerkships count towards the 10 years. And spousal stuff isn't included in the 80k!

[IndyHCKM]

New LRAP program at UChi!!

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/financialaid/LRAP

So amazingly the salary cap is $80k and judicial clerkships count towards the 10 years. And spousal stuff isn't included in the 80k!

I'm a bit confused. What is up with the 15% mentioned in the "Required Repayment Plan"? Does this mean if you make less than 80k you pay 15% of your total income? Or are you covered and then above 80k you pay no more than 15%?

[4102011]

The 15% is the max that you pay out of your salary from IBR. So they're saying if you make less than 80k, UChi will cover your contribution to IBR (the 15%).

(Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that's what it is)

[IndyHCKM]

The loan is forgiven at the end of every year however, as long as you work for 9 months within that calendar year.

That... is awesome!

[99.9luft]

New LRAP program at UChi!!

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/financialaid/LRAP

So amazingly the salary cap is $80k and judicial clerkships count towards the 10 years. And spousal stuff isn't included in the 80k!

I'm a bit confused. What is up with the 15% mentioned in the "Required Repayment Plan"? Does this mean if you make less than 80k you pay 15% of your total income? Or are you covered and then above 80k you pay no more than 15%?

i understood it as: if you're making, say, 70k, you'll pay 15% max or $10.5k that year (which is $875 per month) for your loan.

[4102011]

New LRAP program at UChi!!

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/financialaid/LRAP

So amazingly the salary cap is $80k and judicial clerkships count towards the 10 years. And spousal stuff isn't included in the 80k!

I'm a bit confused. What is up with the 15% mentioned in the "Required Repayment Plan"? Does this mean if you make less than 80k you pay 15% of your total income? Or are you covered and then above 80k you pay no more than 15%?

i understood it as: if you're making, say, 70k, you'll pay 15% max or $10.5k that year (which is $875 per month) for your loan.

Yeah, I think that's how the IBR part of it works. And so UChi would give you that $875/month in a loan to pay towards IBR. Right?

[IndyHCKM]

Just received an e-mail. I'll post it here.


Dramatic New LRAP Offers Chicago Law Graduates in Public Interest Careers Unparalleled Support

The University of Chicago Law School today announced a complete redesign of its Loan Repayment Assistance Program (LRAP), making it the most generous program of its kind. The three most important changes to the program are that it now offers the opportunity for any graduate staying in public interest for ten years to go to law school for free, that all graduates who serve as judicial clerks will be eligible for the program, and that a generous $80,000 salary cap will make the program more inclusive than ever.
“I am incredibly proud to announce that Chicago Law graduates who stay in public interest for ten years can now receive a free legal education,” said Michael Schill, the Law School’s Dean and the Harry N. Wyatt Professor of Law. “Combined with our other innovations, this unique and important aspect of our new program will provide the highest possible level of support to our students and alumni who dedicate their careers to public service.” The University of Chicago Law School is unique in offering an LRAP that covers all of a graduate’s loan payments so long as he or she meets the federal requirements and stays within the salary cap of $80,000.
“No LRAP program of this kind offers a higher salary cap,” said Karla Vargas, Director of Financial Aid, “but one aspect of this program that truly sets Chicago Law’s LRAP apart is that the salary cap does not take into account any spousal income or other assets the graduate may have. Many LRAPs base repayment on a ‘calculated income’ that is dependent not upon the actual drawn salary,” Vargas continued, “but upon a complicated calculation that includes dependents, spousal income, locality, debt, and assets. Our new LRAP not only keeps things simple, but makes many more of our students eligible than they would be at other schools.”
The Chicago Law LRAP has an additional aspect offered by no other top school: inclusion of all judicial clerkships as eligible positions. “Clerkships provide excellent training for our graduates, particularly those who enter jobs in government and public service,” said Schill, “and, as government service, there is no reason to exclude them.” Schill is proud to include all judicial clerks, even those not pursuing public interest careers, in the LRAP program, saying “The Law School has long been a leader in sending graduates to judicial clerkships. It is part of the DNA of our law school, and this will provide even more students with the opportunity to pursue clerking.”
The Law School is fortunate to have the generous support of Ambassador James C. Hormel, ’58, for many of its public service initiatives, including loan repayment assistance. The Hormel Public Interest Funds have been and continue to be crucial to the long-term success of this program.
These changes are just the latest in a series of new additions to the Law School’s public interest program. Beginning with the hiring of Susan Curry, Director of Public Interest Programs, in July 2010, the Law School has significantly increased both financial and programmatic support for students and alumni in public interest. Among the programs benefiting students at the Law School are guaranteed funding for summer public interest work in both the 1L and 2L summers, a new formal student pro bono program, growth of opportunities in the renowned Mandel Legal Aid Clinic and the Law School’s other exceptional clinics, additional substantive public interest curricular offerings, expanded assistance with fellowship applications and career counseling, increased support for student attendance at public interest job fairs, and expansion of international public service opportunities.
Just as current students have been the first to receive the benefits of increased emphasis on public interest at the Law School, they will also have the opportunity to use either the new or prior loan repayment programs. As always, the Offices of Financial Aid and Career Services will work extensively with students to determine which option will best fit their individual situations. The Class of 2013 will be the first to be entirely under the new program.
“The University of Chicago Law School’s support for students and alumni in the public sector is second to none,” said Curry. “With this extraordinary LRAP program, Chicago Law will provide graduates with the simplest, most inclusive, and most generous program available today, including the opportunity to experience a judicial clerkship and the chance to have the entirety of their debt erased. Any prospective student interested in public service should be interested in Chicago Law.”
Details about the new program are available here, together with explanations of some of the newest parts of the program.

[dresden doll]

Work really hard in UG and do well. Study hard on LSAT, do well and have the potential to get into Harvard . . . . and you want to PI?

Maybe I have an erroneous mental image of PI, but typically I think of some slave public defender who makes $40k a year. Just doesn't seem like the lifestyle for an attorney who graduates from a T10 school.

You have an erroneous mental image of PI, yes.

[rundoxierun]

Saw the UChi email and was like wow they are going to better than HYS... then I read the details, saw IBR and shook my head in disgust. This program is NOT exceptional.

[IndyHCKM]

Saw the UChi email and was like wow they are going to better than HYS... then I read the details, saw IBR and shook my head in disgust. This program is NOT exceptional.

I don't know much about IBR. Could you explain why you think this program is not exceptional? I would really appreciate it.

[mcweanis]

Saw the UChi email and was like wow they are going to better than HYS... then I read the details, saw IBR and shook my head in disgust. This program is NOT exceptional.

i don't understand this stuff well enough to know how good this lrap is, but it is DEFINITELY better than what they had before, which sucked.