Thomas Jefferson School of Law? Forum

[20141023]

Baseball_2013, I apologize on behalf of the other members on this board who are being douche-bags for no apparent reason. You have obviously done your research and come to the conclusion that the Thomas Jefferson School of Law is the place for you, and are now simply looking to hear about some of the school's strong points.

Let me start off by affirming your assumption that the Thomas Jefferson School of Law isn't a complete waste of money because it "seems to attract a large number of applicants and has recently built a new facility in downtown San Diego." Just three years ago a well-known rankings system took the size of schools' libraries into account; accordingly, there is always the chance that a new set of rankings will take the newness of a school's facilities into consideration, in which case Thomas Jefferson would be ahead of schools like Yale and Harvard in this category.

Another wonderful thing about the school is the fact that it is named after Thomas Jefferson. I don't even know what a "Yale" or a "Harvard" is supposed to be, but I sure know who Thomas Jefferson was. This alone adds to the school's prestige.

Finally, people are going to tell you that your postgraduate employment prospects will be dismal if you attend the Thomas Jefferson School of Law. However, as the ABA data for the graduating class of 2011 show us, this just isn't true. Thomas Jefferson may initially appear to have slightly worse employment rates than another prestigious school that begins with "Thomas" (Thomas M. Cooley Law School), but the chances of getting a job at a decent firm are twice as high at Thomas Jefferson. Just look at the following graph if you don't believe me:



In conclusion, I think that the Thomas Jefferson School of Law is a great way to gamble with $275,000. If you compare your chances of getting decent employment (0.8%) to winning any major lottery (0.0000006%), you're leagues ahead of the rest of the idiots out there who are throwing their money away.

[Circlewave]

if you have the money to blow, go to the casino and find a roulette table, then put your tuition money on black. you've got better odds.

[moonman157]

Baseball_2013, I apologize on behalf of the other members on this board who are being douche-bags for no apparent reason. You have obviously done your research and come to the conclusion that the Thomas Jefferson School of Law is the place for you, and are now simply looking to hear about some of the school's strong points.

Let me start off by affirming your assumption that the Thomas Jefferson School of Law isn't a complete waste of money because it "seems to attract a large number of applicants and has recently built a new facility in downtown San Diego." Just three years ago a well-known rankings system took the size of schools' libraries into account; accordingly, there is always the chance that a new set of rankings will take the newness of a school's facilities into consideration, in which case Thomas Jefferson would be ahead of schools like Yale and Harvard in this category.

Another wonderful thing about the school is the fact that it is named after Thomas Jefferson. I don't even know what a "Yale" or a "Harvard" is supposed to be, but I sure know who Thomas Jefferson was. This alone adds to the school's prestige.

Finally, people are going to tell you that your postgraduate employment prospects will be dismal if you attend the Thomas Jefferson School of Law. However, as the ABA data for the graduating class of 2011 show us, this just isn't true. Thomas Jefferson may initially appear to have slightly worse employment rates than another prestigious school that begins with "Thomas" (Thomas M. Cooley Law School), but the chances of getting a job at a decent firm are twice as high at Thomas Jefferson. Just look at the following graph if you don't believe me:



In conclusion, I think that the Thomas Jefferson School of Law is a great way to gamble with $275,000. If you compare your chances of getting decent employment (0.8%) to winning any major lottery (0.0000006%), you're leagues ahead of the rest of the idiots out there who are throwing their money away.

You have so much time on your hands

[20141023]

You have so much time on your hands

True... but I only make a few posts per day. It is about the quality of posts, not quantity.

[Crowing]

Man Regulus you've been making a serious push for the TLS Mean Girls lately.

[20141023]

Man Regulus you've been making a serious push for the TLS Mean Girls lately.

I honestly wonder how many people on here are trolls... first the guy spamming about Regents, and now this dude with Thomas Jefferson. I treat all users who post about schools with clearly shitty outcomes equally (as trolls). I mean, there isn't any way that they could come to a site called "www.top-law-schools.com" and make such posts without being trolls.

[Crowing]

Man Regulus you've been making a serious push for the TLS Mean Girls lately.

I honestly wonder how many people on here are trolls... first the guy spamming about Regents, and now this dude with Thomas Jefferson. I treat all users who post about schools with clearly shitty outcomes equally (as trolls). I mean, there isn't any way that they could come to a site called "www.top-law-schools.com" and make such posts without being trolls.

Well to be fair I don't think there's an equivalent "www.shit-law-schools.com" or anything like that. Maybe that'll be my side project after I graduate and decide to go into real estate.

[ManoftheHour]

I have recently been accepted to TJSL and am wondering if anyone has any encouraging information regarding this school.

The best part is that nobody is forcing you to go. The reason you are hearing so much discouraging information regarding TJSL is because it has been ranked as the fifth worst law school in the country. Roughly one quarter of their 2011 class found work as a lawyer. That's inexcusably, ridiculously awful, especially when considering the total cost of over a quarter million dollars.

Run away. Run as fast as you can.

I took my last LSAT at Whittier. There were two people that I talked to there that wanted to attend.

[bizzybone1313]

Well, someone has to be the person that enrolls at Thomas Jefferson, right? It is mind boggling to me how the bottom 100 schools find enough people to enroll at their schools. I know a girl from my undergrad that attended South Texas College of Law even though she had a 3.9. Apparently, she isn't all that bright after all. She should have taken her 3.9 to a top ten MBA program instead.

[eav1277]

if you have the money to blow, go to the casino and find a roulette table, then put your tuition money on black. you've got better odds.

Very true~

[ManoftheHour]

Well, someone has to be the person that enrolls at Thomas Jefferson, right? It is mind boggling to me how the bottom 100 schools find enough people to enroll at their schools. I know a girl from my undergrad that attended South Texas College of Law even though she had a 3.9. Apparently, she isn't all that bright after all. She should have taken her 3.9 to a top ten MBA program instead.

If I had a 3.9, I wouldn't be retaking the LSAT for a regional T20 with $$$....

What a waste. Then again, it's my fault that I wasted my UG freshman year.

Btw, I love your quote of another quote:

"I began studying in August and took the test in December. I did not work or go to school during this time, and I had to move home with my parents to allow that. For some, that might not be possible, and for many more, it would be undesireable. For the latter among you, I suggest you take the time to assess what is really important: a test that can and will contribute significantly to determining the career opportunities you will have for the rest of your life, or your personal lifestyle for the next few months? If you lean towards the latter, I suggest you re-evaluate your commitment to law school to begin with." --TLS User: Unstoppable

[romothesavior]

Man Regulus you've been making a serious push for the TLS Mean Girls lately.

I honestly wonder how many people on here are trolls... first the guy spamming about Regents, and now this dude with Thomas Jefferson. I treat all users who post about schools with clearly shitty outcomes equally (as trolls). I mean, there isn't any way that they could come to a site called "www.top-law-schools.com" and make such posts without being trolls.

I disagree, and I while your post did make me chuckle and it may even help OP rethink his logic, I generally think it is important to treat people asking for advice as though they're genuine until they respond in a way that doesn't warrant respect. There are still tens of thousands of students spending six figures to go to horrible law schools every year. As an applicant pool, people are starting to wise up (fewer applicants, fewer matriculants, etc.), but we still have so many people making life-alteringly bad investments. People on TLS are always so fast to call OPs trolls for asking about horrible T3s and T4s, but there really are a lot of people out there trying to decide between schools like Whittier and TJSL, etc. It's no surprise they come to TLS for information, as it is the best online community for law school information.

Of course, sometimes these threads turn into certifiable shitshows (e.g., Barry v. Nova), but in general I think we should try to be helpful where we can and not assume bad motives.

[nickb285]

I disagree, and I while your post did make me chuckle and it may even help OP rethink his logic, I generally think it is important to treat people asking for advice as though they're genuine until they respond in a way that doesn't warrant respect. There are still tens of thousands of students spending six figures to go to horrible law schools every year. As an applicant pool, people are starting to wise up (fewer applicants, fewer matriculants, etc.), but we still have so many people making life-alteringly bad investments. People on TLS are always so fast to call OPs trolls for asking about horrible T3s and T4s, but there really are a lot of people out there trying to decide between schools like Whittier and TJSL, etc. It's no surprise they come to TLS for information, as it is the best online community for law school information.

Of course, sometimes these threads turn into certifiable shitshows (e.g., Barry v. Nova), but in general I think we should try to be helpful where we can and not assume bad motives.

+1. If you Google "law school," the TLS main page comes up in the first page of results, and the TLS schools articles do not reflect the realities shown on this board (for reference, here's the TLS article on TJSL: http://www.top-law-schools.com/thomas-j ... f-law.html . Read the employment prospects section. This is the kind of crap that people thinking about law school have been reading all over the internet and all over law schools' websites, and hearing from boomer parents and relatives. So the idea that someone would read an article like that and think "Oh hey, I guess TJ is not a bad choice after all. I want to live in southern California, so I don't mind choosing between TJ and California Western, maybe I'll check out these forums and see what people think" is not unrealistic.

That said, Regulus's charts are hilariously awesome.

[Circlewave]

"The opening of the new facilities will likely continue to improve Thomas Jefferson School of Law."

[TatteredDignity]

Yeah, I think someone has a duty to update that profile on our main page. Unacceptable.

[nickb285]

A lot of them are that way. U of DC ends with "For those applicants who are confident in their ability to excel, UDC is probably the most cost-effective route to a JD one will find." Golden Gate says "The employment prospects for students of Golden Gate Law are adequate...most graduates of Golden Gate Law are hired by Bay Area firms and public interest organizations, as public interest law is one of the school's specialties." Southwestern ends on " Indeed, there is nothing like going to school in Los Angeles. For students who crave this experience and who definitely want to practice in California, Southwestern Law can be a worthwhile choice."

Most of the TTT/TTTT profiles should just be updated to say "NO."

[star fox]

Well, someone has to be the person that enrolls at Thomas Jefferson, right? It is mind boggling to me how the bottom 100 schools find enough people to enroll at their schools. I know a girl from my undergrad that attended South Texas College of Law even though she had a 3.9. Apparently, she isn't all that bright after all. She should have taken her 3.9 to a top ten MBA program instead.

People treat Law School like it's undergrad, "oh I don't need to go to a top law school somewhere fancy in the northeast, I'll just go to the local school nearby, that's good enough to get a job in the area". It's mind-boggling how many kids with great GPAs end up wasting it by not trying on the LSAT and happily accepting at a local TTT.

[locthebloke]

This reads like a State News report from the DPRK

I sincerely hope RBG is just become senile with all this dribble.

http://www.tjsl.edu/news-media/2013/8648

[northwood]

Thomas Jefferson School of Law's Tuition s $21,000 per semester..... You can get a very decent used car ( or even some brand new cars) for that price...... Law school is 6 semesters long. Using this analogy, you would end up buying 6 new cars over the crourse of 3 year period. Does the numbers add up??

And that figure does not include fees, which will be added later, nor does it include cost of living ( which I would assume is $15,000 per year)

Thats about $170,000( assuming fees and such are $2,000 total).... PLUS interest

http://www.tjsl.edu/admissions/tuition

[northwood]

just another way to think about the cost of attendance

[lmsf]

I read an interesting NYT article a while back about the tough situation many new lawyers find themselves in and the person profiled in the article was actually a Thomas Jefferson grad. I recommend reading: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/busin ... d=all&_r=0

[Crowing]

Well the TJSL profile got updated. Who writes those anyway?

[crashhelmi]

So I'm actually a TJSL 2L (shocking, I know) who is heavily involved in the school (especially in extracurriculars) so maybe I can help answer a few questions candidly. No, I won't be a shill for the school because to be honest I'm not exactly thrilled about my time here overall. But while it's not nearly as great as admissions wants you to think it is it's also not nearly as bad as everyone on this board (especially that BS new version of the profile) says it is.

SO... is TJSL a scam? Yes and no. The administration is awful and it really seems at times they care absolutely nothing about us students. It takes forever to get funding for anything and most of the staff are completely unaccommodating and often downright rude. Deal Hasl especially... aside from getting us our gorgeous new building (which actually does live up to the hype... it's a great place to learn) he's done absolutely nothing positive in the two years I've been here. There is a new dean coming in so hopefully things will change dynamically but I'm not overly optimistic.

However, there actually are a lot of positives to the school. We have really good extracurricular activities, including a pretty good ADR team, very competitive moot court and mock trial teams and a half decent law review. The majority of our professors are outstanding and are very accessible - there are a few turds in the punch bowl but the school is pretty good about getting rid of them pretty quickly. It's also a great location to live for three years, though a few posters above are correct about the difficulty of finding work with USD and Cal Western so close (though Cal Western really isn't that much better than we are).

The biggest problem with the school is that they admit way too many people. If you're not willing to put in the work to distinguish yourself (especially OUTSIDE the classroom... people tend to forget this way too much) you're completely wasting your time. But if you work hard to align yourself with the right professors the resources are here for you to do well. It's just that 90% of the student body isn't willing or able to do that.

Overall, do I recommend coming to TJSL? I'll give the traditional law school answer - it depends. I've been successful here to date (I had a great internship last summer as a 1L in the field I want to get into and I was second in line for two incredible internships along the same lines) because I've taken advantage of the resources that are actually here, especially in the areas of IP and sports law. There aren't a ton of them but they do exist. But if you're looking for a school where you can just coast and find a job after graduation (or if you're looking to practice in a field where this school isn't very strong, which is most fields) don't waste your time. You shouldn't be going to law school anyway but here that's a $210,000 + interest mistake.

Obviously I've tried to stay away from giving specifics but if you want to PM me I'd be happy to talk to you more privately.

[Crowing]

I'm not knocking TJSL's new profile specifically, but I just don't think it makes sense to have that one paint its school as a shithole when the other TTTT profiles are still saying shit about how they can be decent options when they're just as bad.

[crashhelmi]

I'm not knocking TJSL's new profile specifically, but I just don't think it makes sense to have that one paint its school as a shithole when the other TTTT profiles are still saying shit about how they can be decent options when they're just as bad.

Yeah I agree. TJSL isn't great overall but there are good things about it. The new profile makes it seem like there are absolutely no redeeming qualities about this school when there actually are. Not as many as other schools, but hey, that's why it's a TTTT.