Monterey College of Law Forum

[CA Law Dean]

Law School in Paradise

SEASIDE, CA. -- Sitting in his modest office with a glimpse of the world-famous Monterey Bay shining brightly out the window, Mitchel Winick, Dean of Monterey College of Law ponders aloud why anyone would want to attend law school anywhere else. He readily acknowledges that being located in the midst of an area recognized throughout the world for the storybook cottages of Carmel-By-The-Sea, the famous Pebble Beach golf links, the picturesque 17-Mile Drive, the redwood forests of Big Sur, the spectacular coastal drive along Highway 1, and famous area residents such as Clint Eastwood and John Steinbeck . . . makes it easy for a small California accredited law school to get overlooked.

“Monterey College of Law was founded 35 years ago to provide the opportunity for local residents to obtain a quality legal education without having to move out of the area,” said Winick. “That continues to be the primary mission for the law school, but we are also being discovered by students who recognize that there are other benefits to attending law school in an area considered by many to be a cultural, environmental, and recreational paradise.”

On a beautiful, cloudless, sunny day in November it is easy to see his point. “My wife, kids, and I hike almost every weekend. Two weeks ago we hiked up to almost 1,600 feet to a spectacular overlook of the Pacific Ocean along Highway 1. This past weekend we hiked into Los Padres National Forest through redwood forests that go for thousands of acres.” Most people who have visited the area would agree that there are very few places where you can combine a legal education with so many choices for an active lifestyle. Whether it is beach, ocean, forests, or mountains . . . within an hour of the law school you have literally dozens, perhaps hundreds of options. “We moved here last year after more than 25 years in Texas. Don’t get me wrong, there are many great places in Texas, but nothing really compares to the Monterey area,” Winick commented.

Although the tourist attractions in the region may be world-famous, Monterey College of Law is less well known outside of the area. “California accredited law schools are really hidden gems,” Winick believes. Almost everyone has heard of the traditional, three-year ABA approved law schools in California. The state is home to some of the highest ranked law schools in the U.S., including Stanford, Boalt Hall at Berkeley, UCLA, USC, UC Davis, and Hastings. However, many people do not realize that there are also 16 California Accredited Law Schools (CALS) that provide full- and part-time J.D. programs and qualify graduates to sit for the California Bar exam.

“If you begin with the assumption that you plan to take the California Bar exam and practice law in California, you can obtain a first-class legal education, with small classes, and excellent faculty for less than one-third of the cost of a traditional three-year ABA law school,” according to Wendy LaRiviere, Assistant Dean for Admissions at MCL. “We think that the affordability of our program is one of the main reasons that we are getting more applicants from outside of the region.” LaRiviere, who has been in charge of admissions at MCL for the past seven years, points out that “with law school costs jumping by over 35% at many of the ABA law schools, an increasing number of students are now considering the value of attending state accredited law schools.” The cost of a law degree now exceeds $100,000 at the public law schools and more than $120,000 at most of the private law schools. In comparison, total tuition for the part-time, four-year evening program at Monterey College of Law is less than $40,000. “At a time when law students from other schools are graduating with as much as $120,000 of student loan debt, the majority of our graduates ‘pay as they go’ and finish their degree without any debt at all,” said LaRiviere.

“The rising cost of legal education is a barrier to many segments of the population . . . and that should be a significant concern for all of us,” commented Winick. “Furthermore, by burdening recent law graduates with immense debt, we are effectively eliminating the opportunity for them to fill the growing demand for public service lawyers in our communities. We blame new lawyers for only being in it (law) for the money . . . and yet we conveniently overlook that they need to repay thousands of dollars in student loans,” said Winick. “I am proud that the affordability of our program is one of the factors that provide a number of our graduates the opportunity to use their law degree to help the under-represented members of our community through non-profit organizations, city and county legal departments, and legal aid clinics.”

There is always a concern that graduating from a state accredited law school will limit future job opportunities. “There is no question that academic elitism exists in many law firms,” explains Winick. “However, the fact of the matter is that we have successful MCL alumni in many of the most prestigious law firms in the region . . . in the District Attorney’s office and the Public Defender’s office . . . and four of our graduates serve as California Superior Court Judges.” Russell Scott, a 1978 MCL graduate, father of a fourth-year MCL student, and the first alumnus to serve as a Superior Court Judge, agrees. “I have the unique perspective of watching lawyers perform in court every week, and it appears to me that MCL’s top graduates are recognized by their peers as some of the most respected and capable lawyers in the county.”

Monterey College of Law provides a four-year evening J.D. program that has historically catered to working professionals. “One of the real benefits of our program is the breadth of experience and real-life perspective that our students bring into the classroom,” according to Winick. Sally Green, a banker and current president of the MCL Board of Trustees, confirms the point. “Our program has attracted health professionals, police officers, realtors, bankers, legal administrators, fire and safety professionals, health care managers, high-tech professionals, agricultural business owners, and representatives from virtually every industry in the region,” said Green. However, LaRiviere adds, “the Internet is clearly changing the characteristics of our applicants. There is no question that we are seeing a growing number of applications from students who learn about us on-line. These younger students are coming from colleges located across a geographically diverse area. They bring perspectives from outside of the region, and even from outside of the state.”

Another important benefit of the school’s evening law school program is that the faculty members are all practicing lawyers and judges. “We have the great fortune of having the current presiding judges of Monterey and San Benito Counties serving on our faculty, along with four former presidents of the county bar association, the current president of the state-wide association of certified family law specialists, the recipient of one of the top state-wide ACLU awards, and a Fulbright Scholar in international conflict management . . . just to point out a few,” said Michelle Welsh, president of the MCL faculty senate. “Our faculty members represent virtually all aspects of the political, social, business, and legal spectrum in the tri-county area that includes Monterey, Santa Cruz, and San Benito Counties.” Ron Granberg, a former president of the Monterey County Bar Association and Associate Dean for Clinical and Community Programs, adds, “In addition to bringing their expertise into the classroom, as practicing lawyers and judges, the faculty provides students with a valuable link to the legal community.”

The law school is located less than a mile off Highway 1 as part of the higher education enclave being developed on the former Fort Ord army base. MCL moved into its new 12,000 sq. ft. classroom, office, and library building during the summer of 2005. The 3.5 acre campus is adjacent to California State University Monterey Bay and is easily accessible from Monterey, Salinas, and Santa Cruz. “We really enjoy having CSUMB as an educational neighbor,” said Winick. “It is rare for a small private law school to have access to the resources of a CSU campus, including graduate student housing, bookstore, and athletic facilities.”

Winick, who has previous teaching and administrative experience at ABA law schools in Texas and New Mexico, believes that he may have the best law school dean job in America. “I live in one of the world’s most beautiful areas . . . have the privilege to serve a well-respected state accredited law school that enjoys broad community support . . . and get to work with a distinguished group of trustees, faculty, and alumni as colleagues.” There is no question in Winick’s mind that it will not be long before Monterey College of Law grows beyond its well-deserved local reputation as a ‘hidden gem’ and is discovered by future law students who realize that it really is possible to attend law school in paradise.

For more information, contact:
Mitchel L. Winick
Dean and Professor of Law
Monterey College of Law
mwinick@montereylaw.edu
831-582-4000
http://www.montereylaw.edu

[Ken]

Dean Dean Winick,

Thank you for your excellent and informative post discussing the many attributes of your law school. The fact that you would take the time to post this shows your enthusaism and energy that will continue to improve Monterey College of Law. I certainly can confirm that Monterey is one of the most beautiful places in American and if all goes well with our finances we want to buy a second home there because it is so beautiful.

Thanks again for your post and your providing your email so that interested students can learn more about Monterey College of Law.

Best regards,

Ken

[fnm]

Founded 35 years ago and still unaccredited? Sounds like a quality program you got there!

[Ken]

California is unique in that it is the only state that does not require ABA accreditation to take the CA bar. This is the main reason why the CA bar is so hard because it needs to be a high obstacle to prevent those who cannot effectively practice law from being attorneys.

Thus, there are 16 law schools in CA that are unaccredited so it is not as rare as it might seem. This post is in no way to defend unaccredited law schools for clearly if you get in to ANY accredited law school in California one should attend there vs. a law school that has not been accredited.

However, if one cannot attend the law school they wanted to, they might as well compromise on their academics in a place of great natural beauty such as Monterey or Santa Barbara, home to another unaccredited law school.

Note that I would not recommend attending an unaccredited law school unless you are very certain that you want to be an attorney for a law degree from an unaccredited law school does not open many door outside of the legal world. Admittedly, even inside the legal world many doors need to be tugged open by persistence, but at least they can be opened with diligence.

[CA Law Dean]

California actually has four categories of law schools:
1) ABA Approved
2) California Accredited
3) Unaccredited
4) Correspondence

The significant differences for graduates of one of the 16 California accredited law schools are that:
1) graduates are eligible to take the California bar exam upon earning their J.D. but are not eligible to to take other state bar exams without meeting the requirements of each respective state bar,
2) graduates will have spent appx. $40,000 for their J.D., not $120,000, and
3) individuals who have a passion to study law . . . but do not meet the narrow criteria enforced by the ABA law schools . . . get the opportunity to pursue their dream.

Mitch Winick
Dean, Monterey College of Law

[CA Law Dean]

Monterey College of Law Achieves Record Bar Pass Rate

Monterey College of Law’s Class of 2007 achieved a 63% pass rate on the July California Bar exam in results announced by the State Bar of California.

“We are extremely proud of this talented and hard working group of graduates,”

said Mitch Winick, Dean of MCL. “We expected great things from this class, but this result represents our highest pass rate in ten years and is almost double the statewide average for California accredited law schools.”

Nineteen of MCL’s 23 first-time applicants for the July Bar exam were from the Class of 2007. “Twelve of the nineteen were first-time passers, which is an exceptional effort considering that the California Bar exam is the most difficult in the country,” explained Winick. “In fact, the failure rate in California is almost fifty-percent of those who sit for the exam each year.” It is common for applicants to take the exam multiple times before they pass. The State Bar reported that the overall pass rate for all applicants for the 2007 July Bar exam was 56%, which was about five percent higher than previous years.

MCL’s overall first-time applicant pass rate on the July exam, including graduates from all previous years, was 52% in comparison to the 32% state-wide average for California accredited law schools. “

This result places us in the top tier of state-accredited law schools,”

said Bard Mansager, president of the Board of Trustees and a graduate of MCL. “Although this is no surprise to those of us who know the school, it is exciting to achieve the state-wide recognition.”

[california9]

I skimmed the first post Dean, but do you only offer part-time/night programs?

[CA Law Dean]

Yes, we are exclusively an evening, part-time program. Our regular program is four years, but a number of the top students are taking additional courses and finishing in 3 1/2 years.

[CA Law Dean]

Monterey College of Law Repeats Bar Pass Success

Seaside, CA (PRWEB) May 23, 2008 -- Monterey College of Law received notice from the State Bar of California that 100% of its December early graduates from the class of 2008 passed the February Bar Exam. "This is exceptional news and we are very proud of their hard work and achievement", said Mitchel Winick, Dean of the law school. The February Bar Exam is always a small group for the law school. Four students from the Class of 2008 graduated early and sat for the exam. The other 18 students will graduate in June and be eligible to take the July Bar Exam. "We certainly hope that they repeat the success of last year's July exam when 62% of the Class of 2007 were first-time bar passers", said Dean Winick. The average state-wide bar pass rate for the July Bar Exam was 56% for first-time takers.

The law school had an overall pass rate of 67% for all first-time takers on the February exam, including several participants from previous graduating classes. The state-wide pass rate for the exam was 53%. "The California Bar Exam is the hardest exam to pass in the country", said Winick. "Almost one-half of all participants fail the exam at least one time. The success of our law school's graduates speaks well for their hard work and the exceptional quality of our faculty." "Our pass rate for these recent bar exams places us in the top tier of California Accredited law schools. This is quite an accomplishment for a small regional law school. It confirms the quality of our program and the dedication of our students and faculty," said Bard Mansager, President of the Board of Trustees.

http://www.montereylaw.edu

[20160810]

I guess I'll forget about Stanford!

[Katdaddy]

I guess I'll forget about Stanford!

[sjk]

I do know someone who went to Monterey College of Law and had great things to say about it. That being said, this person was unable to pass the CA bar. Due to their type of job, their law degree was more of a useful tool but passing the bar was not necessary for their line of work.

However, they did want to pass the bar for personal reasons (who doesnt!) and still couldnt do it. I think the bar was graded on a points system and they came within 1-7 points of passing on 4 different occasions before they moved on and stopped trying. They did tell me that looking back now, they wished they would have gone to an ABA accredited school since maybe it would have prepared them better. Even so, they still had great things to say about the school.

CA is a different place and I am probably someone who definitely respects Monterey College of Law more than the average person on TLS so I am glad to hear the bar pass rates are up. However the person I know who went there is definitely intelligent enough to pass the bar and has worked in the legal field for years and has proven they can stand up there with the best of them. I have mixed emotions towards Monterey College of Law...on one hand respecting it from hearing a first hand account of it...and on the other hand feeling a little resentful at them. My friend doesnt blame them for not being able to pass the bar, but I suppose I do a bit.

Anyway this is just my 2 cents on the topic.

[underdawg]

Speaking of Stanford and the bar, didn't the Stanford dean take the CA bar exam for shits and giggles and fail it?

Law school is not bar prep.

[sjk]

Agreed that law school is not bar prep but there is a connection between going to law school and taking the bar...we must go to law school to take the bar.....

[underdawg]

Yeah I mostly just wanted to share that tidbit.

[LawBoy]

Because the ABA requires that an ABA accredited school hire a fixed percentage of full-time law professors to students (15 to 1, 12 to 1 are numbers that are thought to be current, but the actual number is a secret!), and pay a minimum salary, schools like Monterey College of Law (MCL) will ever be accredited; they hire only part-time professors, who are lawyers and judges in real life. The school operates only at night, and by my estimate carries about 130 students at any given time. Full-time professors are not an option for this school.

Because the ABA has a requirement that an accredited school carry a fixed number of volume of books in its law library, a number that is not a reality for a school of 130 students who attend school about 12 hours per week, MCL will never gain accreditation.

At an ABA school you will not likely get the personalized attention from your professors that you find at MCL. When you pass the bar and finally open a practice or join a firm you will know quite a few actual practicing local attorneys who are already familiar with you.

That first time you step into a courtroom and have to face a judge, it sure does not hurt that last summer it was this very judge who taught you courtroom procedures and practice.

Yes MCL might be for you if you plan to practice in California and not out of state. MCL might be for you if this is not your first career and you do not plan to take a job that requires 75 hours a week as a new attorney would expect. MCL might be for you if you do not want to have a student loan debt that matches the national budget of a small third world nation.

Many people who go to MCL never plan to take the bar and become an attorney; they cannot afford the pay cut from their current jobs as CEO, doctors, dentists, bankers etc.

When you read that MCL who is pushing 30 years of service to their community has “still not” gained ABA acceptance, consider this; MCL does NOT want to take that road. ABA accreditation would be the death nell for schools like MCL; it would drive the prices way up, would require a huge growth in the student population that is unrealistic for a community based law school and would take the focus off the goal of MCL; to provide a quality education at realistic prices producing lawyers who will benefit their community and not simply leave the area to work for Goldman Sachs, Exxon, or Enron.

I graduated from MCL 13 years ago, am licensed in California, and the US Supreme Court. I am a partner in a local law firm, left MCL with no debt; appear in court at over 30 hearings per month. Only once has a potential client asked me what law school I attended. I told him, and helped him with his legal issue. I am happy to say that HE will be graduating from MCL in just about a month. I made many friends at MCL who are still an important part of my life. Very often the lawyer at the other table is also a graduate of MCL, it never hurts.

[seatown12]

Many people who go to MCL never plan to take the bar and become an attorney; they cannot afford the pay cut from their current jobs as CEO, doctors, dentists, bankers etc.

So then what's the point? It seems like the only people to whom your school would appeal are those who don't really need a JD anyway. Why would a person whose career goal is to be an attorney choose a school with a substandard library and faculty? It's nice to point out that your tuition is less than accredited schools, but an MCL degree still costs upwards of $50,000 which is no small sum.

[coolkatz321]

Because the ABA requires that an ABA accredited school hire a fixed percentage of full-time law professors to students (15 to 1, 12 to 1 are numbers that are thought to be current, but the actual number is a secret!), and pay a minimum salary, schools like Monterey College of Law (MCL) will ever be accredited; they hire only part-time professors, who are lawyers and judges in real life. The school operates only at night, and by my estimate carries about 130 students at any given time. Full-time professors are not an option for this school.

Because the ABA has a requirement that an accredited school carry a fixed number of volume of books in its law library, a number that is not a reality for a school of 130 students who attend school about 12 hours per week, MCL will never gain accreditation.

At an ABA school you will not likely get the personalized attention from your professors that you find at MCL. When you pass the bar and finally open a practice or join a firm you will know quite a few actual practicing local attorneys who are already familiar with you.

That first time you step into a courtroom and have to face a judge, it sure does not hurt that last summer it was this very judge who taught you courtroom procedures and practice.

Yes MCL might be for you if you plan to practice in California and not out of state. MCL might be for you if this is not your first career and you do not plan to take a job that requires 75 hours a week as a new attorney would expect. MCL might be for you if you do not want to have a student loan debt that matches the national budget of a small third world nation.

Many people who go to MCL never plan to take the bar and become an attorney; they cannot afford the pay cut from their current jobs as CEO, doctors, dentists, bankers etc.

When you read that MCL who is pushing 30 years of service to their community has “still not” gained ABA acceptance, consider this; MCL does NOT want to take that road. ABA accreditation would be the death nell for schools like MCL; it would drive the prices way up, would require a huge growth in the student population that is unrealistic for a community based law school and would take the focus off the goal of MCL; to provide a quality education at realistic prices producing lawyers who will benefit their community and not simply leave the area to work for Goldman Sachs, Exxon, or Enron.

I graduated from MCL 13 years ago, am licensed in California, and the US Supreme Court. I am a partner in a local law firm, left MCL with no debt; appear in court at over 30 hearings per month. Only once has a potential client asked me what law school I attended. I told him, and helped him with his legal issue. I am happy to say that HE will be graduating from MCL in just about a month. I made many friends at MCL who are still an important part of my life. Very often the lawyer at the other table is also a graduate of MCL, it never hurts.

Flame.

[seatown12]

Wow I didn't even realize it wasn't the dean again, oops.

[coolkatz321]

Please, this isn't the dean. It's just a flame-- look at the posts. What kind of dean posts worthless news stories or ones that glorify themselves?

[Todd]

One commenter states that Monterey College of Law’s faculty and library are sub-par. This is patently incorrect.

It is important to understand that many of the factors the American Bar Association uses in its law school accreditation process are related to money.

==========

For accreditation, the ABA considers two factors related to a law school’s faculty. First, it considers what percentage of a law school’s faculty graduated from tier-one and tier-two law schools. Second, it considers how many of the faculty are full-time instructors being paid a certain level of salary. The first factor relates to quality. The second factor is intended to limit accreditation to those law schools that can afford to support full-time academic staff.

At MCL, the percentage of faculty who graduated from a tier-one or tier-two law school is HIGHER than the ABA-accredited law school average. Indeed, MCL's percentage is on par with that of the country’s top law schools. As an MCL student, my instructor for professional responsibility was a California Court of Appeal justice. My instructors for contracts, real property, and remedies were or became California Superior Court judges. My instructor for evidence was a sitting public defender. My instructor for constitutional law was a former government attorney who argued constitutional issues before the United States Supreme Court. Clearly, the quality of MCL’s faculty is not the issue.

MCL’s shortcoming is that its faculty is not full-time and this is a function of dollars. It is interesting to note that in virtually all ABA-accredited advanced legal degree programs (e.g., LLM programs), the faculty is composed of adjunct practitioners and not full-time faculty. And, interestingly, Supreme Court Justice Kennedy was an adjunct faculty at a tier-three school.

==========

For accreditation, the ABA considers how many physical volumes a law school’s library has. It does not consider how many volumes are electronically accessible. Today, virtually all legal research done by the courts, by law firms, and by law students is done electronically via services such as West Law, Lexis Nexis, etc. Electronic research is the great leveler in legal research. Given this, the capital-intensive requirement for physical volumes seems to have no rational basis other than to ensure a given law school has a certain amount of money.

==========

The ABA has required schools to have an endowment of a certain dollar level that is dedicated to only its law school. Indeed, I know of one university with an ABA-accredited law school to segregate its law school finances and endowment from the rest of the university.

==========

One thing that no commenter has discussed is MCL’s internship programs. As an MCL student, I had the privilege of serving as an intern at the California Court of Appeal for a full year. My research contributed to roughly a dozen appellate decisions. And, I served along side of law students from Hastings. A fellow student served as an intern at the Santa Cruz County District Attorney’s Office. She was responsible for prosecuting infraction cases. She was responsible for case management and trial.

==========

Ultimately, each student’s learning experience boils down to how far he/she takes it. The case text books at MCL are the same case text books at Hastings or Boalt or Harvard. The faculty at MCL are typically tier-one and tier-two graduates. All the law schools have West Law and Lexis Nexis. It’s what each student does with it.

[LawDog3]

I would like to add this: any fool who looks across the table at a lawyer from a lower-ranked or unacredited school and assumes him/her to be inferior may be in for a rude awakening, and an even ruder one if the stakes are high. Many no-name grads have built their chops (and their bank accounts) by chewing on Harvard ass!

[General Tso]

I would like to add this: any fool who looks across the table at a lawyer from a lower-ranked or unacredited school and assumes him/her to be inferior may be in for a rude awakening, and an even ruder one if the stakes are high. Many no-name grads have built their chops (and their bank accounts) by chewing on Harvard ass!

Many no-name law schools have built their chops (and their bank accounts!) by chewing up lemming ass!