3.8 GPA/178 LSAT Forum

[threetwentyeight]

I have a 3.8 GPA and a 178 LSAT. Looking to apply to law schools in 2021.

Interested mostly in NYU, Columbia, UPenn, UChicago, Cornell, Northwestern, Michigan, and (possibly?) Yale?

What are my chances? I will go wherever I get the largest scholarship, preferably in the T14. I am not prestige-obsessed but I want to put myself in the best position for employment.

Other info: I am a non-trad student; I took off about 8 years between my first stint of college and the stint in which I graduated. During this time I founded a successful consulting company and moved abroad. Would like to work in trusts and estates, tax, or general corporate in NYC.

[The Lsat Airbender]

You're live everywhere, including for huge scholarships. Your instinct of taking the cheapest T14 offer is a good one. Good luck.

[ksm6969]

I have a 3.8 GPA and a 178 LSAT. Looking to apply to law schools in 2021.

Interested mostly in NYU, Columbia, UPenn, UChicago, Cornell, Northwestern, Michigan, and (possibly?) Yale?

What are my chances? I will go wherever I get the largest scholarship, preferably in the T14. I am not prestige-obsessed but I want to put myself in the best position for employment.

Other info: I am a non-trad student; I took off about 8 years between my first stint of college and the stint in which I graduated. During this time I founded a successful consulting company and moved abroad. Would like to work in trusts and estates, tax, or general corporate in NYC.

I assume given your profile you are over 30 or nearly so. That means H doesnt look at your parents finances and makes it fairly straightforward to arrange your finances such that you get almost a free ride at HLS (free ride meaning nearly full tuition-- you will still need to take ~$45k / year in loans on paper for living expenses, but you can pay these off as soon as you graduate). If you started a successful consulting company, you can figure out how to do it by browsing harvard finaid policies. Then you get the preftige + the money.
You will also probably get in the rest except Y, plus full scholarship (tuition, plus maybe some living expenses) in at least some. Thats just harder to predict than gaming H finaid.

[threetwentyeight]

I did not know that Harvard gives free rides! How does one get that? Just finding a way to make your deductions greater to lower your income? Is there a certain income threshold?

Assuming I am not putting the cart before the horse here, obviously.

[threetwentyeight]

You're live everywhere, including for huge scholarships. Your instinct of taking the cheapest T14 offer is a good one. Good luck.

Thank you! I absolutely am not trying to graduate with a huge debt which would necessitate staying in BigLaw for years and years.

[ksm6969]

I did not know that Harvard gives free rides! How does one get that? Just finding a way to make your deductions greater to lower your income? Is there a certain income threshold?

Assuming I am not putting the cart before the horse here, obviously.

HYS all do only need based aid. I think they all max out and slightly below full rides unless you have special expenses like ongoing medical bills or kids. H max aid (not counting special expenses) is like 55, on a tuition of like 65, so not technically full ride but close.

H only looks at assets under your name at the time you accept admission. They dont look at past income (except income made in the summer immediately before attendance, which is after you accept admission). If you move your assets out of your name before accepting admission, well you can figure out what happens. Note that H includes primary residence and some (substantially discounted) portion of retirement money, so if you have significant assets in those types of things that are non-liquid (and possibly harder to move), it will be more difficult.

S only looks at past income. So if you had high past income, you are pretty much dead.

Y is more like H, but it doesnt count primary residence. So its a little easier to game if you own a home (or buy a home and essentially stash money in it) .

Theres some very unhelpful discussion here that devolved into stupidity about gift tax reporting pretty quickly: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=103638 .

I just mentioned H by default because its most predictable and with a 3.8/178, decent / unique WE and presumably not terrible reccomendations, you have a pretty strong shot at admission.

(Note that they will also take some portion of your summer earnings if you do, e.g., a 2L firm job, so its not quite as good as a full ride to Columbia or something where you keep all your summer earnings....)

[threetwentyeight]

This is so helpful! Thank you, thank you.

I own an apartment which I purchased for around $106,000 (I don't remember the total amount offhand but it was weird, like $106,000 and some random change). Other than that, I do have retirement accounts and such. This will require some creativity, methinks.

I am wondering--am I completely out of the running for named scholarships? It is my impression that these scholarships go to truly exceptional candidates. I don't think I am one of them, lol.

[The Lsat Airbender]

I did not know that Harvard gives free rides! How does one get that? Just finding a way to make your deductions greater to lower your income? Is there a certain income threshold?

Assuming I am not putting the cart before the horse here, obviously.

HYS all do only need based aid. I think they all max out and slightly below full rides unless you have special expenses like ongoing medical bills or kids. H max aid (not counting special expenses) is like 55, on a tuition of like 65, so not technically full ride but close.

[...]

I think the drastically understates the marginal cost of HYS over a Ruby or Darrow (or other T14 full-ride + stipend). Even with "max aid," a bit of a misnomer because some people can get more aid in weird edge cases, the minimum financial contribution (which, if you're poor, you cover with loans) is around $150k.

Unless OP has been carefully avoiding any wealth accumulation, which frankly would be a terrible life choice, they're going to have assets which will increase that $150k pricetag further. For instance, at H they assume you spend half of retirement savings. If OP co-founded a business, and that business is doing well, they should anticipate paying sticker or close to it at HYS. Any improvement on sticker would be a pleasant surprise.

That said, this is all just speculation. OP, you should blanket the T14 and see what your actual cost-of-attendance options are, and then go from there. You are definitely in the running for HYS as well as full rides. Your numbers are great and your story is certainly more interesting than the average applicant.