Top Law Schools

Hi all,

First time poster. Probably should've been earlier, but, as you will see below, I procrastinate.

Thanks in advance for any guidance/help - this place is an incredible resource (also hopefully I am posting in the right thread...).

Essentially, I applied super late (I think full applications weren't in till first week of Feb?). I had even considered not applying and waiting till next year, but by that point I had done all the hard work and sort of lost my mind over getting everything together that I figured I would submit.

Results so far:
Accepted:
- NYU (90k)
- Columbia (unknown)
- Harvard (unknown)
- Berkeley (90k)
Rejected:
- Stanford
Waitlist:
- Yale
- Chicago

My preferences are:
1. Yale or NYU RTK (My inclination has been Yale, but it would be hard for me to turn down a debt free education)
2. Stanford
3. Harvard/Columbia - depending on funding package.

Have spoken to a couple of people familiar with the system. Both suggested I turn down offers and reapply next year, as they think I'd have a shot at better funding packages and acceptance at Stanford (I suppose Yale would be the same chances given that they consider all applications equally. Chicago not high on my list). I think I'll do so, as I'm not in any particular rush. That being said, I am leaning towards going onto the Yale waitlist and, if I get in, going in September. A few specific questions:

1. I understand that Yale's scholarships are stated as being needs based only. Is this true for waitlisted people as well? If I got in this year off the waitlist, or next year directly, would it not effect the amount I would be awarded? Not at all presuming I would get in next year (hence my leaning towards taking the waitlist opportunity right now) but just wondering. If its the same, waitlist decision a no-brainer.
2. I know the RTK is very competitive. I'd feel somewhat silly passing up my other top choice if this is just a pipe dream. But the scholarship is just such an amazing opportunity and I am kicking myself for having missed the deadline this year and would want to see how I faired. I suppose my question is, is this stupid thinking?
3. Do people largely agree with the advice I've received (that I'd have a better shot at more funding/acceptances if I reapplied early)?

Like I said, I am leaning towards waitlist at Yale as I recognize even getting waitlisted requires a fair amount of luck and I would REALLY be kicking myself if I didn't even get waitlisted next year, but thought I'd see if I could get a few more specific answers and viewpoints that might sway my thinking (or confirm it). Hopefully none of this sounds presumptuous, I just have seen how helpful this place can be so thought easiest to lay my cards on the table and see what you all thought. Also if these have been answered elsewhere, my apologies and please just send links!

For info:
LSAT: 174; GPA: 3.9/4; Master's degree; fair amount of human rights/criminal justice reform experience internationally. late 20s (hence the attractiveness of a debt free law degree).

Thanks again and best of luck to everyone who is in the thick of getting responses and making decisions.

Welcome to TLS!

I agree with the previous advice you've received to reapply next year. Applying in February is extremely late, and will have put you at a huge disadvantage for basically every school aside from YLS. If your stats were strong enough to get you waitlisted at Yale and Chicago, you would likely have gotten significantly more money from NYU - and maybe even RTK, who knows - if you'd applied by November.

It is true that Yale, Stanford and Harvard only award need-based aid. They do not award merit-based aid.

When you reapply, reapply by Halloween, and definitely apply to RTK. For public interest, NYU RTK is one of the best outcomes ever. In terms of PI network and placement strength, NYU RTK is second only to Yale, and the funding package makes it a very compelling choice even compared to YLS, especially if you won't qualify for max need-based aid at YLS (and most applicants don't, because parental income gets considered through age 29, regardless of whether there will actually be any parental contributions).

Also, when you reapply, don't limit yourself to the seven schools you applied to this cycle. You should include all of the T13, maybe excepting Cornell (which primarily places into NY BigLaw and isn't particularly strong on the PI front relative to the other T13s). Certainly you should apply to Michigan, which 1) has historical strength especially in PI, and 2) tends to be one of the most generous T13s in awarding merit aid, along with NYU. Depending on the type of PI you want to do, a hypothetical scenario involving Michigan on a full ride, vs. NYU on a half-scholarship (not RTK) vs. Yale at sticker (minimal need-based aid) could very well have Michigan being the best choice.

Thanks for the quick response! Very helpful. I'm interested in continuing to work internationally, hence the focus on YSH/NYU/Columbia, although perhaps that thinking is flawed.

As for Yale waitlist, your take would be to do the whole slate next year and pass that over? I'm 29 in June so I don't think parental income will factor but I do have personal savings from few years work. Good to know that the waitlist factor wouldn't effect how much I would receive, if I do decide to try my chances this year. Also weighing the impact of COVID19. Not keen on the first semester online, which seems like a possibility at this point.

Anyways, thanks again.

ABCDEFGHJK wrote:Thanks for the quick response! Very helpful. I'm interested in continuing to work internationally, hence the focus on YSH/NYU/Columbia, although perhaps that thinking is flawed.

As for Yale waitlist, your take would be to do the whole slate next year and pass that over? I'm 29 in June so I don't think parental income will factor but I do have personal savings from few years work. Good to know that the waitlist factor wouldn't effect how much I would receive, if I do decide to try my chances this year. Also weighing the impact of COVID19. Not keen on the first semester online, which seems like a possibility at this point.

Anyways, thanks again.

Happy to help. If you get off the waitlist this cycle at Yale, definitely defensible to go. Especially for international human rights, that's tough enough to break into that Yale may be worth it even over NYU RTK (which is much stronger than NYU sans RTK, but even then is a clear second to Yale). You'd want to consider your own tolerance for debt (even with Yale's first-in-class COAP, which to my knowledge is the best LRAP offered by any law school), how badly you want that international human rights job, what other kinds of work you'd be happy doing if you don't land international human rights work (which you must anticipate as a realistic and significant possibility, even from Yale). You'd also want to look at your chances of landing NYU RTK, or a Michigan full-ride, or a similar outcome at, say, Chicago. If you're a "splitter", i.e., a low(er) LSAC GPA, but a very high LSAT, then your chances will be lower, but if you have a 3.9x/173+, then your odds of substantial merit aid at CCN on down (even though RTK will remain very competitive) are very good.

If you don't get off the waitlist this cycle at Yale, absolutely reapply next cycle, when you'd have another shot at Yale, and a shot at NYU RTK (which you missed the deadline for this cycle) and a Michigan full ride.

Columbia isn't particularly strong in international human rights, and I would recommend even NYU without RTK (let alone NYU RTK) over Columbia.

Every T13 offers merit aid, except Y/S/H which are solely need-based. Some of the other T13s offer both merit and need-based aid, but most schools outside of Y/S/H reserve the bulk of their funding for merit aid. (And you're right - I double-checked, and so long as you're 29 by December 31, which you will be, parental income won't be considered by Yale in calculating need-based aid.)