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Hello,

I double majored and got 3.5 gpa from a top 10 institution & 171 LSAT.
I am currently working as a server and I don't have any work experience in the legal field.
I do have an independent research experience related to criminal justice.
I am certain I can get 3 strong recommendation letters.

My questions are
1. What are my t14 chances?
2. I am considering Penn ED. Is it worth it? I am very interested in Penn's JD/MS joint program. It also fits well with my personal statement & resume
3. Is it a good idea to apply to a few t14 schools (UC Berkeley, UVA, Penn, U of Michigan, Northwestern, NYU, Georgetown and Cornell) only? i.e. no safety school
Since I am a splitter and it's already kinda late, I am considering to re-apply in September 2020 if I don't get a good result this year.


Thanks in advance for your time!

https://mylsn.info/70fumw

This MyLSN output confirms what a lot of people on TLS say regularly: Berkeley and Cornell seem to care a lot about grades. Also, it looks like your chances with t5 are pretty slim, but there's some noise below that. A 171 is high for schools in the 8-14 range, and some schools may weigh the 3.5 differently because it came from an elite institution. I won't speculate on your softs, but softs (at least in theory) tend to matter more for splitters. This data excludes ED, but the one person with your stats who did Penn ED in the last 5 cycles got waitlisted. Most observers comment that ED does not significantly improve your admissions chances, and that seems to be the case here.

As for your comment about only applying to T14, I think that's shortsighted. As a splitter, you need to maximize your sample size. I was a splitter, and I ended up getting rejected from places that maybe I should have gotten into and accepted into places that I maybe shouldn't have. There's a lot of uncertainty as to how schools will view a splitter's application, so make sure you have a few viable options, you need to apply a bit more broadly. I suggest applying to a school or two in the top 6 (and realistically, Columbia and NYU), a few schools below 14 (Texas, UCLA, Vandy maybe), and every school between Penn and GULC. Regardless of which cycle you choose to apply, maximizing your sample size will be vital.

1) You'd probably get 2-3 (maybe 1-4) T14 offers with those numbers if you had applied at the start of the cycle. You still have decent chances if you can get apps in by Christmas but it's good that you're willing to take another shot next year.
2) ED, and dual-degree programs, are not worthwhile for the vast majority of people. I'm curious why you're interested in a JD/MS - do you truly want to be a lawyer? The extra coursework for the master's will add basically zero value to your legal credentials and in fact might inhibit your legal career by taking time and energy away from the intense exam/recruiting cycle of law school.
3) Depends on your career goals. WashU likes to throw scholarship money at 170+ LSAT scores, so that might be worth considering if your goals are realistic from WashU, and ditto for a strong regional school in your desired geographic area (e.g., UMinnesota if you'd be happy living in the Twin Cities, with the same caveat about realistic career outcomes). You should definitely apply to Duke in any case.

decimalsanddollars wrote:https://mylsn.info/70fumw

This MyLSN output confirms what a lot of people on TLS say regularly: Berkeley and Cornell seem to care a lot about grades. Also, it looks like your chances with t5 are pretty slim, but there's some noise below that. A 171 is high for schools in the 8-14 range, and some schools may weigh the 3.5 differently because it came from an elite institution. I won't speculate on your softs, but softs (at least in theory) tend to matter more for splitters. This data excludes ED, but the one person with your stats who did Penn ED in the last 5 cycles got waitlisted. Most observers comment that ED does not significantly improve your admissions chances, and that seems to be the case here.

As for your comment about only applying to T14, I think that's shortsighted. As a splitter, you need to maximize your sample size. I was a splitter, and I ended up getting rejected from places that maybe I should have gotten into and accepted into places that I maybe shouldn't have. There's a lot of uncertainty as to how schools will view a splitter's application, so make sure you have a few viable options, you need to apply a bit more broadly. I suggest applying to a school or two in the top 6 (and realistically, Columbia and NYU), a few schools below 14 (Texas, UCLA, Vandy maybe), and every school between Penn and GULC. Regardless of which cycle you choose to apply, maximizing your sample size will be vital.

Thanks! I do agree my chances with t5 are slim (and I am not going to apply to HYSC)
I was considering to only applying to T14 because I am willing to apply again next year & wanted to save some application fees. But I will consider UCLA.

That being said, would it be worth it to take the LSAT again? It will be my third time taking the LSAT.

The Lsat Airbender wrote:1) You'd probably get 2-3 (maybe 1-4) T14 offers with those numbers if you had applied at the start of the cycle. You still have decent chances if you can get apps in by Christmas but it's good that you're willing to take another shot next year.
2) ED, and dual-degree programs, are not worthwhile for the vast majority of people. I'm curious why you're interested in a JD/MS - do you truly want to be a lawyer? The extra coursework for the master's will add basically zero value to your legal credentials and in fact might inhibit your legal career by taking time and energy away from the intense exam/recruiting cycle of law school.
3) Depends on your career goals. WashU likes to throw scholarship money at 170+ LSAT scores, so that might be worth considering if your goals are realistic from WashU, and ditto for a strong regional school in your desired geographic area (e.g., UMinnesota if you'd be happy living in the Twin Cities, with the same caveat about realistic career outcomes). You should definitely apply to Duke in any case.

Thanks for the reply! I was considering UPenn's JD/MS criminology program since it's what I am aiming for in my career.
Speaking of scholarship, would it be a better move to go to a below T14 school with a scholarship than T14 without or less amount of scholarship? I am planning to get a student loan. My friends who currently work as a big-law lawyer or got a full-time offer told me I must go to T14 for the job opportunities.

Also, Would it be better to retake the LSAT in March? It will be my third time taking the LSAT.

reywon0113 wrote:Thanks for the reply! I was considering UPenn's JD/MS criminology program since it's what I am aiming for in my career.
Speaking of scholarship, would it be a better move to go to a below T14 school with a scholarship than T14 without or less amount of scholarship? I am planning to get a student loan. My friends who currently work as a big-law lawyer or got a full-time offer told me I must go to T14 for the job opportunities.

What are your career goals precisely? Do you want to work in BigLaw? Do you want to be a federal prosecutor? Do you want to be a public defender or work as a state/local prosecutor? Do you want to join the ACLU or similar high-profile advocacy group? Are you more interested in joining a local civil rights/legal services nonprofit representing disadvantaged populations?

If you're strongly interested in criminology, you should consider going into that field instead of pursuing a J.D. If you're strongly interested in criminal law, a UPenn J.D. is more than enough, and adding a criminology MS will not help you.