Top Law Schools

Revisiting the idea of law school, deciding if taking the LSAT is worth it. I would be a pretty non-traditional applicant:

- 31-years old, non-urm
- undergrad at Harvard, 3.65 GPA + honors thesis
- MBA at Chicago Booth (top 5 program), 3.0 gpa (did not take business school very seriously)
- work experience is mostly in the business/startup world with no clear path to law school
- LSAT would be in the 172-175 range. I had a 730 gmat, 1500 SAT, and have taken some practice tests in the low 170s.

I would only really be interested in going to a top program like Harvard or similar.

I feel like a 3.65 from Harvard with a 17x score would position me well, but I don’t know if the following issues would be fatal:

- bad grades at b-school
- being old
- not a tight career path
- having gone to b-school already

In a perfect world, if I hunkered down and crushed the LSAT with, say a 175, what do you think would be the best school I could get into?

The answer to that question will help me decide if it’s a fool’s errand to take the LSAT.

Thanks so much. Sorry for the long post.

If you get a high LSAT it will compensate for your GPA. I think you know you are capable of getting into a good law school, that doesn't seem like a hard question for you to answer. Just curious, why do you want to go to law school? It doesn't seem money is the motivation because you already have degrees from Harvard and Booth that can get you well over 6 figures. Do you simply want to add another degree? At 31, you should consider putting your degrees to work and establishing your career. By the time you graduate, you'll be 34 with three great degrees, but with presumably no real career.

CR7 wrote:If you get a high LSAT it will compensate for your GPA. I think you know you are capable of getting into a good law school, that doesn't seem like a hard question for you to answer. Just curious, why do you want to go to law school? It doesn't seem money is the motivation because you already have degrees from Harvard and Booth that can get you well over 6 figures. Do you simply want to add another degree? At 31, you should consider putting your degrees to work and establishing your career. By the time you graduate, you'll be 34 with three great degrees, but with presumably no real career.

Thank you. Man, a lot of A’s went into that 3.6 - certainly didn’t feel “low” when I was in school. Competition is no joke these days!


Wheather or not it’s a good idea is a huge question that I have not really tackled yet. At this stage, I’m just trying to understand what would be possible. If my profile would preclude me from attending a top 5ish school even with a monster LSAT, then I will abondon the idea altogether. If it’s possible, then I will think more about the extremely important points you lay out.

I also understand how difficult the LSAT is, and saying “I’ll get a 175” is easy to say and hard to do. Thanks again.

CR7 wrote:If you get a high LSAT it will compensate for your GPA. I think you know you are capable of getting into a good law school, that doesn't seem like a hard question for you to answer. Just curious, why do you want to go to law school? It doesn't seem money is the motivation because you already have degrees from Harvard and Booth that can get you well over 6 figures. Do you simply want to add another degree? At 31, you should consider putting your degrees to work and establishing your career. By the time you graduate, you'll be 34 with three great degrees, but with presumably no real career.

Also, traditional legal jobs from top law schools (i.e. big law) suck majorly, so without a clear goal of why you're going to law school, you would be doing your self and your current degrees a great disservice.

Sampson521 wrote:If my profile would preclude me from attending a top 5ish school even with a monster LSAT, then I will abondon the idea altogether.

Then I wouldn't bother going at all.

Sounds like you're not very committed to the idea of practicing law, and there's no such thing as the T5. If you can't articulate a reason for wanting to go to law school beyond wanting another prestigious degree on your wall, then it's going to be a massive waste of time and money.

I feel like a 3.65 from Harvard with a 17x score would position me well, but I don’t know if the following issues would be fatal:

- bad grades at b-school
- being old
- not a tight career path
- having gone to b-school already

None of these things will prevent you from getting into a top law school. Having another grad degree and some work experience are (small) pluses to your application. While you'd be older than most other law students, it's not that unusual. The undergrad GPA is a bit below median for the top schools, but definitely could be made up for with a good LSAT. As others have mentioned, the real questions are why you want to go to law school and whether it's worth it.

cavalier1138 wrote:

Sampson521 wrote:If my profile would preclude me from attending a top 5ish school even with a monster LSAT, then I will abondon the idea altogether.

Then I wouldn't bother going at all.

Sounds like you're not very committed to the idea of practicing law, and there's no such thing as the T5. If you can't articulate a reason for wanting to go to law school beyond wanting another prestigious degree on your wall, then it's going to be a massive waste of time and money.

Expressing interest in a “top 5ish lawschool” means I’m not committed because there is no top 5 law schools? I’m not neck-deep in this game but that sounds strange.

Also, the reason for posting here is not to “articulate a reason for wanting to go” but rather to simply ascertain if it is even possible. Then I will think about if it’s a good idea.

I appreciate everyone’s concern about it being a bad idea - and it really may be. But for now I was just trying to get some expert input on what is even possible, or if my profile excludes me from the best schools regardless of LSAT. Thanks.

HamlinMcgill wrote:

I feel like a 3.65 from Harvard with a 17x score would position me well, but I don’t know if the following issues would be fatal:

- bad grades at b-school
- being old
- not a tight career path
- having gone to b-school already

None of these things will prevent you from getting into a top law school. Having another grad degree and some work experience are (small) pluses to your application. While you'd be older than most other law students, it's not that unusual. The undergrad GPA is a bit below median for the top schools, but definitely could be made up for with a good LSAT. As others have mentioned, the real questions are why you want to go to law school and whether it's worth it.

Thank you. This is the info I was after.

The reasons people think you aren’t serious:
No reason at all why you want to go to law school
Only wanting to go if it’s one of a handful of schools
Assuming a high LSAT to compensate for grades
Already in a good high paying career

There’s no gold star pat on your back for adding say a Harvard Law diploma if you don’t want to practice law. There is absolutely no reason to go to law school if it won’t benefit you in your career.

Npret wrote:The reasons people think you aren’t serious:
No reason at all why you want to go to law school
Only wanting to go if it’s one of a handful of schools
Assuming a high LSAT to compensate for grades
Already in a good high paying career

.

Thanks. You’re not wrong in most of this. In terms of being “serious” I’m probably a 2 out of 10, where 10 is sitting in your first day of class and 1 is “what is the Lsat?” I hope I didn’t mislead at all on that point - really am kicking the tires but am serious about considering it.

To your specific points:

Only wanting to go if it’s one of a handful of schools

Isn’t it pretty common to only want to go to certain schools? Isn’t that sort of the point of “t-13”? In b-school it was common for people to apply and then not go at all if they didn’t get into a certain caliber of school. For example, my friend got rejected at Wharton, Harvard, and Standord so just didn’t go at all. I realize it may be different for law school.

Already in a good high paying career

This is off. I’m at a failing startup. Though it’s probably safe to say I *could* get a good job.

Assuming a high LSAT to compensate for grades

I appreciate that people get annoyed by hypothetical LSAT scores and that’s fair. Though the question right now for me is it it’s worth putting in the time to study. Given my score on past standardized tests and a couple PTs, I think it’s reasonable but in no way guaranteed.

There’s no gold star pat on your back for adding say a Harvard Law diploma if you don’t want to practice law. There is absolutely no reason to go to law school if it won’t benefit you in your career

This is a totally legit point. But my purpose writing here was to answer “can” rather than “should.”

Thanks for your comments!

Sampson521 wrote:Isn’t it pretty common to only want to go to certain schools?

Yes. The issue is that you selected an arbitrary cut-off that seems to indicate you don't know why you want to attend those certain schools. It's not so much that there aren't technically schools in the "top 5." It's that "top 5" isn't a reasonable designation, because it doesn't have anything to do with professional outcomes.

cavalier1138 wrote:

Sampson521 wrote:Isn’t it pretty common to only want to go to certain schools?

Yes. The issue is that you selected an arbitrary cut-off that seems to indicate you don't know why you want to attend those certain schools. It's not so much that there aren't technically schools in the "top 5." It's that "top 5" isn't a reasonable designation, because it doesn't have anything to do with professional outcomes.

My offensive use of “top 5ish” while not knowing T6 is a thing hopefully just shows that I’m at the very first stages of considering this, which I hope I made abundantly clear.

For those that helped - thank you! I have gathered that b-school grades and age really won’t stand in the way of admissions, which is what I was trying to understand.

Thanks again!