Top Law Schools

Hey all!

I’m inquiring as to my chances of admission into a top program. My gpa is 3.84 and my LSAT score is 162. I have URM status. I go to a state school in the rural Midwest. What follows is a list of the “soft” aspects of my application:

• I took senior-level courses as a freshman and graduate-level courses as a sophomore and received A’s in all of them.
• I have glowing letters of recommendation.
• I had a McNair research internship.
• I have an article published in Psychology Today.
• I was a finalist for the Truman Scholarship.
• I have presented at 8 conferences or so (will only be listing a few on my resume, such as the AAA and ASA).
• I took part in a service project to raise money for an orphanage in Kenya.
• I am in the acknowledgements of a book published in NYU press on inequity in the criminal justice system.
• I have an acknowledgement in the book of a super famous critical theorist.
• I have been involved in three research projects total, one of them independently driven and the other two based on a faculty member’s research.
• I have teaching experience (several guest lectures and a teaching internship)
• Lots of travel experience (Mexico, Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic, etc.)
• I can get by with Spanish, and was raised in a Spanish-speaking household.
• I've managed the campaign of a state legislator.
• Work experience: state health department, jewelry and watch repair, staff writer for the student newspaper, and a host of research internships.
• I’m involved with several student groups on campus, the majority of which focus on multiculturalism and social justice advocacy.
• I come from a single-parent household.

Retaking is not an option for me, unfortunately. What are my chances at a T14 program? A T25 program? Thanks so much, y'all!

amorga14 wrote:Hey all!

I’m inquiring as to my chances of admission into a top program. My gpa is 3.84 and my LSAT score is 162. I have URM status. I go to a state school in the rural Midwest. What follows is a list of the “soft” aspects of my application:

• I took senior-level courses as a freshman and graduate-level courses as a sophomore and received A’s in all of them.
• I have glowing letters of recommendation.
• I had a McNair research internship.
• I have an article published in Psychology Today.
• I was a finalist for the Truman Scholarship.
• I have presented at 8 conferences or so (will only be listing a few on my resume, such as the AAA and ASA).
• I took part in a service project to raise money for an orphanage in Kenya.
• I am in the acknowledgements of a book published in NYU press on inequity in the criminal justice system.
• I have an acknowledgement in the book of a super famous critical theorist.
• I have been involved in three research projects total, one of them independently driven and the other two based on a faculty member’s research.
• I have teaching experience (several guest lectures and a teaching internship)
• Lots of travel experience (Mexico, Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic, etc.)
• I can get by with Spanish, and was raised in a Spanish-speaking household.
• I've managed the campaign of a state legislator.
• Work experience: state health department, jewelry and watch repair, staff writer for the student newspaper, and a host of research internships.
• I’m involved with several student groups on campus, the majority of which focus on multiculturalism and social justice advocacy.
• I come from a single-parent household.

Retaking is not an option for me, unfortunately. What are my chances at a T14 program? A T25 program? Thanks so much, y'all!

FWIW: I have much the same stats, and damn good softs. So far I'm in Berkeley, Duke, and Penn. You have a chance at the T14, especially with good recs.

Any reason in particular why retaking is not an option?

How is this different from your last thread asking for your chances? People accurately assessed your chances in that thread (to the extent any of us can be accurate considering we're working with incomplete data and anecdotes that leave room for certainty).

With your current profile, you have a decent shot at the T14, and you generically will have options in the T25, since that's the question you asked. But that's hardly the end of your analysis.

Let's dive deeper: what do you want out of a law degree beyond admission to a certain law school? What sort of career are you imagining? Where do you imagine that career starting? And how are you planning to finance your education when you have options available?

Retaking is always an option, and you're wrong to claim it's not. I won't push that further, but I sincerely doubt you have a legitimate reason to say retaking is not an option. If you want to push back on that, fine. I won't fight you on it. But people save themselves hundreds of thousands of dollars regularly by retaking. You have that capability. Keep that in mind.

Please, please, please stop thinking about these archaic levels of prestige, but not because they don't matter. The fact that you're thinking about how a "T25" is an option to you is problematic. And T14 is a thing worth appreciating, but even that needs to be better understood. You don't seem to be understanding that yet.

As it is, you're potentially competitive for the first step to a legal career, which is admission to a good law school that could potentially start you off on the career you want, but that's not the end. Once you demystify that admissions process, you can begin to plan your career within the context of law school admissions. Thinking about this decision as an entry to the career you want will pay dividends for you, should you take this advice seriously.

Admissions is the first step for the career you want, but don't end your analysis there. It honestly matters very little whether you get into a given law school. What matters more is figuring out the career you want, figuring out what schools can place you in that practice area, and how much those schools will cost. That cost-benefit analysis you'll eventually perform, once you have options, will inform your options way more than whether you can get into a "T25."

KENYADIGG1T wrote:FWIW: I have much the same stats, and damn good softs. So far I'm in Berkeley, Duke, and Penn. You have a chance at the T14, especially with good recs.

I can't really comment on the OP's chances, but I don't think a 162 and a 166 are quite much the same.

A. Nony Mouse wrote:

KENYADIGG1T wrote:FWIW: I have much the same stats, and damn good softs. So far I'm in Berkeley, Duke, and Penn. You have a chance at the T14, especially with good recs.

I can't really comment on the OP's chances, but I don't think a 162 and a 166 are quite much the same.

Fair point. But if we take OP at their word about "glowing recs," does that close the gap? Also you remember my LSAT?

I looked up your LSAT up in your post history because 162 seemed low from other on-topic discussions I've seen you in (sorry if that seems creepy, I spend too much time here).

And no, I don't think glowing recs make up the difference between a 162 and a 166 (or any other higher score). Lots of applicants - I'd guess most - have glowing recommendations.

The other softs look pretty good (although being in acknowledgments of a book...that looks like reaching), but I don't think they move the needle very much either. Softs help you outperform other people with your stats or stats very close to you, they don't add LSAT points.

If you're a URM you have a good shot at T14 schools. However, what type of URM (e.g, AA, hispanic, etc.) will be a big factor.

UVA2B wrote:How is this different from your last thread asking for your chances? People accurately assessed your chances in that thread (to the extent any of us can be accurate considering we're working with incomplete data and anecdotes that leave room for certainty).

With your current profile, you have a decent shot at the T14, and you generically will have options in the T25, since that's the question you asked. But that's hardly the end of your analysis.

Let's dive deeper: what do you want out of a law degree beyond admission to a certain law school? What sort of career are you imagining? Where do you imagine that career starting? And how are you planning to finance your education when you have options available?

Retaking is always an option, and you're wrong to claim it's not. I won't push that further, but I sincerely doubt you have a legitimate reason to say retaking is not an option. If you want to push back on that, fine. I won't fight you on it. But people save themselves hundreds of thousands of dollars regularly by retaking. You have that capability. Keep that in mind.

Please, please, please stop thinking about these archaic levels of prestige, but not because they don't matter. The fact that you're thinking about how a "T25" is an option to you is problematic. And T14 is a thing worth appreciating, but even that needs to be better understood. You don't seem to be understanding that yet.

As it is, you're potentially competitive for the first step to a legal career, which is admission to a good law school that could potentially start you off on the career you want, but that's not the end. Once you demystify that admissions process, you can begin to plan your career within the context of law school admissions. Thinking about this decision as an entry to the career you want will pay dividends for you, should you take this advice seriously.

Admissions is the first step for the career you want, but don't end your analysis there. It honestly matters very little whether you get into a given law school. What matters more is figuring out the career you want, figuring out what schools can place you in that practice area, and how much those schools will cost. That cost-benefit analysis you'll eventually perform, once you have options, will inform your options way more than whether you can get into a "T25."

As always, UVA gives us an objective view into your expectations...

A. Nony Mouse wrote:I looked up your LSAT up in your post history because 162 seemed low from other on-topic discussions I've seen you in (sorry if that seems creepy, I spend too much time here).

And no, I don't think glowing recs make up the difference between a 162 and a 166 (or any other higher score). Lots of applicants - I'd guess most - have glowing recommendations.

The other softs look pretty good (although being in acknowledgments of a book...that looks like reaching), but I don't think they move the needle very much either. Softs help you outperform other people with your stats or stats very close to you, they don't add LSAT points.

LOL not creepy at all; I was just surprised. I'm trying to forget my score

If you were a finalist for the Truman Scholarship you can definitely retake and raise that score.

Barack O'Drama wrote:

UVA2B wrote:How is this different from your last thread asking for your chances? People accurately assessed your chances in that thread (to the extent any of us can be accurate considering we're working with incomplete data and anecdotes that leave room for certainty).

With your current profile, you have a decent shot at the T14, and you generically will have options in the T25, since that's the question you asked. But that's hardly the end of your analysis.

Let's dive deeper: what do you want out of a law degree beyond admission to a certain law school? What sort of career are you imagining? Where do you imagine that career starting? And how are you planning to finance your education when you have options available?

Retaking is always an option, and you're wrong to claim it's not. I won't push that further, but I sincerely doubt you have a legitimate reason to say retaking is not an option. If you want to push back on that, fine. I won't fight you on it. But people save themselves hundreds of thousands of dollars regularly by retaking. You have that capability. Keep that in mind.

Please, please, please stop thinking about these archaic levels of prestige, but not because they don't matter. The fact that you're thinking about how a "T25" is an option to you is problematic. And T14 is a thing worth appreciating, but even that needs to be better understood. You don't seem to be understanding that yet.

As it is, you're potentially competitive for the first step to a legal career, which is admission to a good law school that could potentially start you off on the career you want, but that's not the end. Once you demystify that admissions process, you can begin to plan your career within the context of law school admissions. Thinking about this decision as an entry to the career you want will pay dividends for you, should you take this advice seriously.

Admissions is the first step for the career you want, but don't end your analysis there. It honestly matters very little whether you get into a given law school. What matters more is figuring out the career you want, figuring out what schools can place you in that practice area, and how much those schools will cost. That cost-benefit analysis you'll eventually perform, once you have options, will inform your options way more than whether you can get into a "T25."

As always, UVA gives us an objective view into your expectations...

Not sure if sarcasm, but do you have any issue with any of the advice I gave?

UVA2B wrote:

Barack O'Drama wrote:

UVA2B wrote:How is this different from your last thread asking for your chances? People accurately assessed your chances in that thread (to the extent any of us can be accurate considering we're working with incomplete data and anecdotes that leave room for certainty).

With your current profile, you have a decent shot at the T14, and you generically will have options in the T25, since that's the question you asked. But that's hardly the end of your analysis.

Let's dive deeper: what do you want out of a law degree beyond admission to a certain law school? What sort of career are you imagining? Where do you imagine that career starting? And how are you planning to finance your education when you have options available?

Retaking is always an option, and you're wrong to claim it's not. I won't push that further, but I sincerely doubt you have a legitimate reason to say retaking is not an option. If you want to push back on that, fine. I won't fight you on it. But people save themselves hundreds of thousands of dollars regularly by retaking. You have that capability. Keep that in mind.

Please, please, please stop thinking about these archaic levels of prestige, but not because they don't matter. The fact that you're thinking about how a "T25" is an option to you is problematic. And T14 is a thing worth appreciating, but even that needs to be better understood. You don't seem to be understanding that yet.

As it is, you're potentially competitive for the first step to a legal career, which is admission to a good law school that could potentially start you off on the career you want, but that's not the end. Once you demystify that admissions process, you can begin to plan your career within the context of law school admissions. Thinking about this decision as an entry to the career you want will pay dividends for you, should you take this advice seriously.

Admissions is the first step for the career you want, but don't end your analysis there. It honestly matters very little whether you get into a given law school. What matters more is figuring out the career you want, figuring out what schools can place you in that practice area, and how much those schools will cost. That cost-benefit analysis you'll eventually perform, once you have options, will inform your options way more than whether you can get into a "T25."

As always, UVA gives us an objective view into your expectations...

Not sure if sarcasm, but do you have any issue with any of the advice I gave?

Sorry UVA, I can see how that sounds sarcastic. No, I'm actually a big fan of your advice!

ETA: I don't know how to be normal and think I have Aspergers.

Depends on the URM. I'd try low to mid T14 though.
Spend time on your Berkeley app.

I'd retake February though, if I were you. Both for WL and for scholarship increases.