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Hey everyone,

was a little blindsided by a 176 LSAT score for a Feb re-take...At the time, I was looking to just boost chances at Cornell, GULC, and NU - but then it looked like a T-6 might actually happen. As of now though, I have only 1 acceptance from the T-20 at 50% discount, waitlisted everywhere else...radio silence from USC, Vandy, and UT. This is my second application cycle, should I be considering applying in a third cycle with early apps at this point?

Yes. With your numbers, you'll have drastically better options next cycle. I wouldn't even accept a position off one of those waitlists unless it comes at significant discount (T13 for free comes to mind). You're looking at really great outcomes next cycle, even if it sucks waiting a year.

Holy shit, congrats on that ridiculous score.

Whether to reapply is completely up to you, but if I were in your situation, I would sit back and get excited about spending an actual gap year saving up dineros, travelling, and knowing that an acceptance/scholarship at one of the T6s is waiting for you in the Fall.

+1 to the other two comments. I would reapply. Congrats!

100% reapply.

Thank you guys for the great feedback, should I ride out the waitlists?

2 points:

1- you might have something in your application that is unseemly. Spend the summer really working on your application.

2- apply the first day apps open in the fall.

Profit.

Mootmath wrote:Thank you guys for the great feedback, should I ride out the waitlists?

There's no harm in it, but only accept an admissions offer with a full ride to a T13 you'd like to attend. Otherwise politely decline and reapply early next fall.

Mootmath wrote:Thank you guys for the great feedback, should I ride out the waitlists?

There's no specific need to withdraw, but you should accept nothing less that the moon from those schools. Those numbers could (potentially) get you into Harvard (go look at their LSN graph this year) or a good chunk of money at a t-6.

For a third-cycle application for some of these schools, should I write new materials for the apps? ( re-write a new personal statement? And/Or re-write everything in my current applications? New letters of Rec etc.?)

Thank you guys again!

Yes. Also, I doubt you need new LORs. Unless you believe your personal statement could be improved or you have more substance to incorporate, I also doubt there's any reason to change much. If it's been a couple years since submitting your first PS, then I would re-write.

What did you do differently to study for your retake?

Mootmath wrote:For a third-cycle application for some of these schools, should I write new materials for the apps? ( re-write a new personal statement? And/Or re-write everything in my current applications? New letters of Rec etc.?)

Thank you guys again!

Definitely do not need need letters of recommendation - however, if you have only two, a third couldn't hurt.

I don't know about personal statement - if I was in your circumstance, I would write a new one (after two cycles with the same statement.) If you aren't recognized as a third-time applicant, your statement will be read with new attention. If you are recognized as a third-time applicant, it will show your flexibility and creativity.

No matter what, adcomms are going to lap up your new score, and I don't think repeated material otherwise is going to hurt you.

YBF-W wrote:
What did you do differently to study for your retake?

Great question. So I had been really focused on learning the tips and tricks to LR and LG, and that got me up from 158 to 168ish. Then this time, I
1.) began to listen to audio books at 2x time the speed to build up the speed of my internal reading voice.
2.) Bought a course on argumentation analysis - this gave me a framework for evaluating arguments. All the 10+ type of LR questions began to look like just 3 types, and I started quickly spotting issues in the warrants/justifications between premise and conclusion.

After those two things my score jumped to averaging 176-180 consistently.

Mootmath wrote:
1.) began to listen to audio books at 2x time the speed to build up the speed of my internal reading voice.

This is really interesting, I've never heard of someone doing this before. I may give it a try. Dumb question, but did you feel like you were actually able to read faster? Did you consider yourself a slow reader beforehand?

Platopus wrote:

Mootmath wrote:
1.) began to listen to audio books at 2x time the speed to build up the speed of my internal reading voice.

This is really interesting, I've never heard of someone doing this before. I may give it a try. Dumb question, but did you feel like you were actually able to read faster? Did you consider yourself a slow reader beforehand?

It wasn't so much reading slow, as it was processing things slow. I went from not being able to finish LR and RC sections (Always killed it at Games) to having a good 5 minutes to check work. Not to humble-brag or anything, but on FEB I had enough time after the games section to go pee and come back before the writing section started... so stupid lol.

Mootmath wrote: Not to humble-brag or anything, but on FEB I had enough time after the games section to go pee and come back before the writing section started... so stupid lol.

HAHA I hope you at least got them all right...

Anyway, thanks for the tip, I think that kinda makes sense. I'll try it out and see if it works for me. Best of luck, and definitely reapply

Mootmath wrote:

YBF-W wrote:
What did you do differently to study for your retake?

Great question. So I had been really focused on learning the tips and tricks to LR and LG, and that got me up from 158 to 168ish. Then this time, I
1.) began to listen to audio books at 2x time the speed to build up the speed of my internal reading voice.
2.) Bought a course on argumentation analysis - this gave me a framework for evaluating arguments. All the 10+ type of LR questions began to look like just 3 types, and I started quickly spotting issues in the warrants/justifications between premise and conclusion.

After those two things my score jumped to averaging 176-180 consistently.

What was the argumentation analysis course?

Mootmath wrote:

Platopus wrote:

Mootmath wrote:
1.) began to listen to audio books at 2x time the speed to build up the speed of my internal reading voice.

This is really interesting, I've never heard of someone doing this before. I may give it a try. Dumb question, but did you feel like you were actually able to read faster? Did you consider yourself a slow reader beforehand?

It wasn't so much reading slow, as it was processing things slow. I went from not being able to finish LR and RC sections (Always killed it at Games) to having a good 5 minutes to check work. Not to humble-brag or anything, but on FEB I had enough time after the games section to go pee and come back before the writing section started... so stupid lol.

LOL but.........you really could've just taken your sweet time because...it's the writing section haha

I think you should reapply as well. You should get into multiple T6 schools next cycle, and with decent scholarships.

But I want to caution you against expecting a T13 for free/close to free. People vastly over-rate what a well above 75th% LSAT does for you at the middle and lower T13.

I have a 178/3.6x and admittedly weak softs. However, I have not gotten anything close to a T13 for free. Rather, I have gotten loads of waitlists from 7-13. While that high LSAT will help you a ton with admittance (and some money) at T6 schools and give you a shot at Harvard, it actually doesn't do that much for the rest of the T13.

These schools have 75% LSAT at 169-171. For them, it makes more sense to find somebody with a lower 17x who will help their GPA median. Same effect on their LSAT percentiles, better effect on GPA percentiles, and less competition from T6 (so higher yield).

You have to understand that at Columbia or Harvard, your 176 LSAT functions as such. At Virginia, it is no different than a 171. As a super high LSAT splitter, your stats "get better" at better schools.

So, yes. Reapply. Expect to have some T6 options with decent $ and a shot at Harvard. But don't bank on being able to cash in on a full ride to Virginia or Cornell, etc...

jb111 wrote:But I want to caution you against expecting a T13 for free/close to free. People vastly over-rate what a well above 75th% LSAT does for you at the middle and lower T13.

I have a 178/3.6x and admittedly weak softs. However, I have not gotten anything close to a T13 for free.

Seconding this. I had substantively similar stats and got nothing even remotely close to a full ride anywhere in the T13 (back in muh day it was the T14 and we walked uphill in the snow both ways to apply).

I got into H & S and my need-based aid was way higher than any merit aid I got anywhere else.

UVA2B wrote:

Mootmath wrote:Thank you guys for the great feedback, should I ride out the waitlists?

There's no harm in it, but only accept an admissions offer with a full ride to a T13 you'd like to attend. Otherwise politely decline and reapply early next fall.

Don't you think full ride is a bit optimistic with a 3.6? At a T6 it seems like 50% maximum

Veil of Ignorance wrote:

UVA2B wrote:

Mootmath wrote:Thank you guys for the great feedback, should I ride out the waitlists?

There's no harm in it, but only accept an admissions offer with a full ride to a T13 you'd like to attend. Otherwise politely decline and reapply early next fall.

Don't you think full ride is a bit optimistic with a 3.6? At a T6 it seems like 50% maximum

Probably, but I meant this solely in the riding the waitlist advice. Don't take an acceptance at sticker off the waitlist when the likelihood of better offers next cycle are almost guaranteed. And maybe T13 for free is a stretch even for next cycle, but the general advice is just do everything to have all your best options on the table.

Nonconsecutive wrote:

jb111 wrote:But I want to caution you against expecting a T13 for free/close to free. People vastly over-rate what a well above 75th% LSAT does for you at the middle and lower T13.

I have a 178/3.6x and admittedly weak softs. However, I have not gotten anything close to a T13 for free.

Seconding this. I had substantively similar stats and got nothing even remotely close to a full ride anywhere in the T13 (back in muh day it was the T14 and we walked uphill in the snow both ways to apply).

I got into H & S and my need-based aid was way higher than any merit aid I got anywhere else.

You got into Stanford with a 3.6X ??

Veil of Ignorance wrote:

Nonconsecutive wrote:

jb111 wrote:But I want to caution you against expecting a T13 for free/close to free. People vastly over-rate what a well above 75th% LSAT does for you at the middle and lower T13.

I have a 178/3.6x and admittedly weak softs. However, I have not gotten anything close to a T13 for free.

Seconding this. I had substantively similar stats and got nothing even remotely close to a full ride anywhere in the T13 (back in muh day it was the T14 and we walked uphill in the snow both ways to apply).

I got into H & S and my need-based aid was way higher than any merit aid I got anywhere else.

You got into Stanford with a 3.6X ??

I know, right?

Nonconsecutive wrote:

jb111 wrote:But I want to caution you against expecting a T13 for free/close to free. People vastly over-rate what a well above 75th% LSAT does for you at the middle and lower T13.

I have a 178/3.6x and admittedly weak softs. However, I have not gotten anything close to a T13 for free.

Seconding this. I had substantively similar stats and got nothing even remotely close to a full ride anywhere in the T13 (back in muh day it was the T14 and we walked uphill in the snow both ways to apply).

I got into H & S and my need-based aid was way higher than any merit aid I got anywhere else.

Thirding this. You'll likely have better options but don't come into a reapply scenario expecting free T13