Top Law Schools

+ 2 years work experience at a big firm in NY, great recommendations from directors of my college & Partners at my firm. Also ton of volunteer and work experience in UG. Dean of a school where I was accepted said my essay was exceptional.

Chances @ Indiana, WUSL (For some reason they sent me a waiver), Northeastern, Tulane, Cordozo, Villanova, Temple (Went there for UG).

templehayden wrote: Chances @ Indiana, WUSL (For some reason they sent me a waiver), Northeastern, Tulane, Cordozo, Villanova, Temple (Went there for UG).

I'm gonna hit you with a "retake or don't go."

A 158 isn't doing you any favors.
A 164 gives you a 100% acceptance at schools like William & Mary, or Boston College.
A 167 would give you a possible scholarship at WUSTL (on your list) or a full scholarship at any of the other schools you mentioned.

I'm not saying those schools aren't good choices (some may be less than optimal, as they don't turn out high-paying or high-profile jobs). But even a modest score increase would give you a world of opportunities for better schools, or much more money at your current selection.

Check out http://www.mylsn.info for chances

Given your GPA I think you're going to need to retake the LSAT to make law school a worthwhile investment of time and money.

templehayden wrote:+ 2 years work experience at a big firm in NY, great recommendations from directors of my college & Partners at my firm. Also ton of volunteer and work experience in UG. Dean of a school where I was accepted said my essay was exceptional.

Chances @ Indiana, WUSL (For some reason they sent me a waiver), Northeastern, Tulane, Cordozo, Villanova, Temple (Went there for UG).

Are you a URM? If not, your chances at Indiana and WUSTL are slim. WUSTL is probably a deny. At Indiana you might have a chance, but being below both medians, you won't get much (if any) scholarship money.

I didn't retake (but tbh, I should have) so I'm not usually part of the "retake or bust" crowd. However, you really need to retake with a 158. Your GPA is way too low to even begin to make up for your LSAT score, and your score is in a range where it's easy to improve if you put in enough work. You can absolutely study your way to at least a 165, and a 170 (maybe even a 168) might very well get you a full ride at WUSTL.

sjs12 wrote:

templehayden wrote:+ 2 years work experience at a big firm in NY, great recommendations from directors of my college & Partners at my firm. Also ton of volunteer and work experience in UG. Dean of a school where I was accepted said my essay was exceptional.

Chances @ Indiana, WUSL (For some reason they sent me a waiver), Northeastern, Tulane, Cordozo, Villanova, Temple (Went there for UG).

Are you a URM? If not, your chances at Indiana and WUSTL are slim. WUSTL is probably a deny. At Indiana you might have a chance, but being below both medians, you won't get much (if any) scholarship money.

I didn't retake (but tbh, I should have) so I'm not usually part of the "retake or bust" crowd. However, you really need to retake with a 158. Your GPA is way too low to even begin to make up for your LSAT score, and your score is in a range where it's easy to improve if you put in enough work. You can absolutely study your way to at least a 165, and a 170 (maybe even a 168) might very well get you a full ride at WUSTL.

I have almost full/75%+ @ St. Johns, Drexel, Rutgers, Seton Hall, and Miami - not prudent to attend of any of these school? Rather kick off for a year and retake the LSAT for the third time?

templehayden wrote:

sjs12 wrote:

templehayden wrote:+ 2 years work experience at a big firm in NY, great recommendations from directors of my college & Partners at my firm. Also ton of volunteer and work experience in UG. Dean of a school where I was accepted said my essay was exceptional.

Chances @ Indiana, WUSL (For some reason they sent me a waiver), Northeastern, Tulane, Cordozo, Villanova, Temple (Went there for UG).

Are you a URM? If not, your chances at Indiana and WUSTL are slim. WUSTL is probably a deny. At Indiana you might have a chance, but being below both medians, you won't get much (if any) scholarship money.

I didn't retake (but tbh, I should have) so I'm not usually part of the "retake or bust" crowd. However, you really need to retake with a 158. Your GPA is way too low to even begin to make up for your LSAT score, and your score is in a range where it's easy to improve if you put in enough work. You can absolutely study your way to at least a 165, and a 170 (maybe even a 168) might very well get you a full ride at WUSTL.

I have almost full/75%+ @ St. Johns, Drexel, Rutgers, Seton Hall, and Miami - not prudent to attend of any of these school? Rather kick off for a year and retake the LSAT for the third time?

What are your career goals? Depending on your goals, attending any of those schools (except maybe Miami? someone else can chime in on that one) would be a waste of three years.

Yes, retake. A 158 is a score that is easy to improve on IF you are willing to put in the work.

sjs12 wrote:

templehayden wrote:

sjs12 wrote:

templehayden wrote:+ 2 years work experience at a big firm in NY, great recommendations from directors of my college & Partners at my firm. Also ton of volunteer and work experience in UG. Dean of a school where I was accepted said my essay was exceptional.

Chances @ Indiana, WUSL (For some reason they sent me a waiver), Northeastern, Tulane, Cordozo, Villanova, Temple (Went there for UG).

Are you a URM? If not, your chances at Indiana and WUSTL are slim. WUSTL is probably a deny. At Indiana you might have a chance, but being below both medians, you won't get much (if any) scholarship money.

I didn't retake (but tbh, I should have) so I'm not usually part of the "retake or bust" crowd. However, you really need to retake with a 158. Your GPA is way too low to even begin to make up for your LSAT score, and your score is in a range where it's easy to improve if you put in enough work. You can absolutely study your way to at least a 165, and a 170 (maybe even a 168) might very well get you a full ride at WUSTL.

I have almost full/75%+ @ St. Johns, Drexel, Rutgers, Seton Hall, and Miami - not prudent to attend of any of these school? Rather kick off for a year and retake the LSAT for the third time?

What are your career goals? Depending on your goals, attending any of those schools (except maybe Miami? someone else can chime in on that one) would be a waste of three years.

Yes, retake. A 158 is a score that is easy to improve on IF you are willing to put in the work.

Miami only relevant if you're going to bust your butt for 3 years and gun hard for top 15%. You're already locked into practicing in Florida forever if you got to Miami, and unless you're top of the class, you don't have a shot against UF and FSU grads.

Source: uncle is a hiring partner in Florida

Don't plan on being top 15% anywhere, that's foolish. Even if you work your butt off you might just be one of those people who isn't all that good at law school. It happens to the best of us.

BigZuck wrote:Don't plan on being top 15% anywhere, that's foolish. Even if you work your butt off you might just be one of those people who isn't all that good at law school. It happens to the best of us.

Very valid

HennessyVSOP wrote:

templehayden wrote: Chances @ Indiana, WUSL (For some reason they sent me a waiver), Northeastern, Tulane, Cordozo, Villanova, Temple (Went there for UG).

I'm gonna hit you with a "retake or don't go."

A 158 isn't doing you any favors.
A 164 gives you a 100% acceptance at schools like William & Mary, or Boston College.
A 167 would give you a possible scholarship at WUSTL (on your list) or a full scholarship at any of the other schools you mentioned.

I'm not saying those schools aren't good choices (some may be less than optimal, as they don't turn out high-paying or high-profile jobs). But even a modest score increase would give you a world of opportunities for better schools, or much more money at your current selection.

Thanks for doing the comprehensive research on this. I am going to wait and see what all of these schools say, and then if there isn't any great offers at the end, I will probably make the decision to re-take in September.

What do you want to do with a law degree? What does your preferred career trajectory look like?

BigZuck wrote:What do you want to do with a law degree? What does your preferred career trajectory look like?

Securities litigation, mainly white-collar defense, as that is what I do now and really enjoy. Work at a big law firm now in NY and I believe they would take me back to summer, also have solid connections in NJ/NY so that is why I am thinking Brooklyn, Seton Hall, or Rutgers for almost free would be prudent.

templehayden wrote:Indiana, WUSTL, Northeastern, Tulane, Cordozo, Villanova, Temple

These are all good schools - you can get a job out of them.

However, the likelihood that it will be the exact job you want, or high-paying enough to combat your loans, is low. You want to minimize your indebtedness for these schools because your options coming out may be slim.

If you retake, you can nail those full scholarships. Northeastern employment numbers don't look so bad if you only have ~$65k cost-of-living debt.

HennessyVSOP wrote:

templehayden wrote:Indiana, WUSTL, Northeastern, Tulane, Cordozo, Villanova, Temple

These are all good schools - you can get a job out of them.

However, the likelihood that it will be the exact job you want, or high-paying enough to combat your loans, is low. You want to minimize your indebtedness for these schools because your options coming out may be slim.

If you retake, you can nail those full scholarships. Northeastern employment numbers don't look so bad if you only have ~$65k cost-of-living debt.

Going to think very hard about the re-take, would definitely shift my plans that I have set up now - but totally understood about minimizing debt in connection with the value of your education.

I'm mostly just curious as to where Ferrisjo is at. This seems like the exact topic he'd jump all over and get angry at the retake advice.

mrgstephe wrote:I'm mostly just curious as to where Ferrisjo is at. This seems like the exact topic he'd jump all over and get angry at the retake advice.

Socratease wrote:

mrgstephe wrote:I'm mostly just curious as to where Ferrisjo is at. This seems like the exact topic he'd jump all over and get angry at the retake advice.

Just found it:) Glad to know I'm missed! Yeah I'm not sure if OP has applied to all the schools he's asking about already(and how many time's he's taken the LSAT). If he's applied and is happy with his choices he should go. OP if you want to have a talk about some of your choices with none of the retake stuff PM me. Still if you haven't applied you're probably throwing away a bit of money regardless of the LSAT and your ability to improve.In regards to the choices he has, where does he want to practice. Also do not go to SJU they take back over half of those conditional scholly's a year.

Ferrisjso wrote:

Socratease wrote:

mrgstephe wrote:I'm mostly just curious as to where Ferrisjo is at. This seems like the exact topic he'd jump all over and get angry at the retake advice.

Just found it:) Glad to know I'm missed! Yeah I'm not sure if OP has applied to all the schools he's asking about already(and how many time's he's taken the LSAT). If he's applied and is happy with his choices he should go. OP if you want to have a talk about some of your choices with none of the retake stuff PM me. Still if you haven't applied you're probably throwing away a bit of money regardless of the LSAT and your ability to improve.In regards to the choices he has, where does he want to practice. Also do not go to SJU they take back over half of those conditional scholly's a year.

have you tried the subreddit for law school admissions? I think you'd fit in well over there

mrgstephe wrote:

Ferrisjso wrote:

Socratease wrote:

mrgstephe wrote:I'm mostly just curious as to where Ferrisjo is at. This seems like the exact topic he'd jump all over and get angry at the retake advice.

Just found it:) Glad to know I'm missed! Yeah I'm not sure if OP has applied to all the schools he's asking about already(and how many time's he's taken the LSAT). If he's applied and is happy with his choices he should go. OP if you want to have a talk about some of your choices with none of the retake stuff PM me. Still if you haven't applied you're probably throwing away a bit of money regardless of the LSAT and your ability to improve.In regards to the choices he has, where does he want to practice. Also do not go to SJU they take back over half of those conditional scholly's a year.

have you tried the subreddit for law school admissions? I think you'd fit in well over there

Reddit doesn't exactly have the best reputation. This forum is far more comprehensive and has far more knowledgeable people as a whole.

Ferrisjso wrote:

mrgstephe wrote:

Ferrisjso wrote:

Socratease wrote:

mrgstephe wrote:I'm mostly just curious as to where Ferrisjo is at. This seems like the exact topic he'd jump all over and get angry at the retake advice.

Just found it:) Glad to know I'm missed! Yeah I'm not sure if OP has applied to all the schools he's asking about already(and how many time's he's taken the LSAT). If he's applied and is happy with his choices he should go. OP if you want to have a talk about some of your choices with none of the retake stuff PM me. Still if you haven't applied you're probably throwing away a bit of money regardless of the LSAT and your ability to improve.In regards to the choices he has, where does he want to practice. Also do not go to SJU they take back over half of those conditional scholly's a year.

have you tried the subreddit for law school admissions? I think you'd fit in well over there

Reddit doesn't exactly have the best reputation. This forum is far more comprehensive and has far more knowledgeable people as a whole.

Thats the point. You aren't knowledgeable and you don't have a good reputation for advice. Hence go to reddit and leave here.

grades?? wrote:

Ferrisjso wrote:

mrgstephe wrote:

Ferrisjso wrote:

Socratease wrote:

mrgstephe wrote:I'm mostly just curious as to where Ferrisjo is at. This seems like the exact topic he'd jump all over and get angry at the retake advice.

Just found it:) Glad to know I'm missed! Yeah I'm not sure if OP has applied to all the schools he's asking about already(and how many time's he's taken the LSAT). If he's applied and is happy with his choices he should go. OP if you want to have a talk about some of your choices with none of the retake stuff PM me. Still if you haven't applied you're probably throwing away a bit of money regardless of the LSAT and your ability to improve.In regards to the choices he has, where does he want to practice. Also do not go to SJU they take back over half of those conditional scholly's a year.

have you tried the subreddit for law school admissions? I think you'd fit in well over there

Reddit doesn't exactly have the best reputation. This forum is far more comprehensive and has far more knowledgeable people as a whole.

Thats the point. You aren't knowledgeable and you don't have a good reputation for advice. Hence go to reddit and leave here.

Well if I wasn't posting there would be almost no one to counter the "retake or don't go to law school even if means skipping a year or more!" people and their excess negativity! I'm not the most qualified to give advice but I'm doing an important service by preventing people from thinking their are no dissenters to their logic. I'm not one of those yes men but I'm not T-14/ regional for free or bust either. I'm representing a rational position in between. Would there be better more informed messengers? I have no doubt there , but reading these forums has made it crystal clear if I don't give out positive advice no else(or close to no one else anyway) will(especially for people with sub 160 LSAT's!). I don't want people who have the stats for a solid outcome to not go to law school because people paint the false perception they are in a terrible position, if I can help a few people not give up that's good enough for me:)

Ferrisjso wrote:Well if I wasn't posting there would be almost no one to counter the "retake or don't go to law school even if means skipping a year or more!" people and their excess negativity! I'm not the most qualified to give advice but I'm doing an important service by preventing people from thinking their are no dissenters to their logic. I'm not one of those yes men but I'm not T-14/ regional for free or bust either. I'm representing a rational position in between. Would there be better more informed messengers? I have no doubt there , but reading these forums has made it crystal clear if I don't give out positive advice no else(or close to no one else anyway) will(especially for people with sub 160 LSAT's!). I don't want people who have the stats for a solid outcome to not go to law school because people paint the false perception they are in a terrible position, if I can help a few people not give up that's good enough for me:)

Dude, telling people to take a year off is. not. excess. negativity. It's just not. You, personally, don't want to take a year off. That's great. You do you. Stop flipping out when other people tell posters to take a year off. It is extremely reasonable advice.

You're thinking about this like the people who think for the media to be "balanced" it has to cover all arguments, like the idea that to be balanced the media has to give, say, creationism equal time as it gives evolution. Not all arguments are created equal and they don't all deserve equal time.

Ferrisjso wrote:

grades?? wrote:

Ferrisjso wrote:

mrgstephe wrote:

Ferrisjso wrote:

Socratease wrote:

mrgstephe wrote:I'm mostly just curious as to where Ferrisjo is at. This seems like the exact topic he'd jump all over and get angry at the retake advice.

Just found it:) Glad to know I'm missed! Yeah I'm not sure if OP has applied to all the schools he's asking about already(and how many time's he's taken the LSAT). If he's applied and is happy with his choices he should go. OP if you want to have a talk about some of your choices with none of the retake stuff PM me. Still if you haven't applied you're probably throwing away a bit of money regardless of the LSAT and your ability to improve.In regards to the choices he has, where does he want to practice. Also do not go to SJU they take back over half of those conditional scholly's a year.

have you tried the subreddit for law school admissions? I think you'd fit in well over there

Reddit doesn't exactly have the best reputation. This forum is far more comprehensive and has far more knowledgeable people as a whole.

Thats the point. You aren't knowledgeable and you don't have a good reputation for advice. Hence go to reddit and leave here.

Well if I wasn't posting there would be almost no one to counter the "retake or don't go to law school even if means skipping a year or more!" people and their excess negativity! I'm not the most qualified to give advice but I'm doing an important service by preventing people from thinking their are no dissenters to their logic. I'm not one of those yes men but I'm not T-14/ regional for free or bust either. I'm representing a rational position in between. Would there be better more informed messengers? I have no doubt there , but reading these forums has made it crystal clear if I don't give out positive advice no else(or close to no one else anyway) will(especially for people with sub 160 LSAT's!). I don't want people who have the stats for a solid outcome to not go to law school because people paint the false perception they are in a terrible position, if I can help a few people not give up that's good enough for me:)

Up this. Also OP, given your number, I think you have 90% of getting into Indiana with small money. Mark my words.

templehayden wrote:

BigZuck wrote:What do you want to do with a law degree? What does your preferred career trajectory look like?

Securities litigation, mainly white-collar defense, as that is what I do now and really enjoy. Work at a big law firm now in NY and I believe they would take me back to summer, also have solid connections in NJ/NY so that is why I am thinking Brooklyn, Seton Hall, or Rutgers for almost free would be prudent.

You think they'll hire you regardless of what school you go to and what grades you get?

What are the credentials of the younger associates (5 years or less) in that office? What schools did they go to/what grades did they get?

Are ferrisjso and chicagoburger some weird elaborate double alt? It's starting to get a bit ridiculous.

I don't want to flat-out call your particular brand of "rationale" as suspect, but you give eerily similar bad advice in concert.