178, 2.9 University of Sydney, any chance with t6/14? Forum

[rosbaz]

Hi guys,

I have a 178 in lsat and a 2.9 gpa. I am a UG student at the University of Sydney, bachelor of science and bachelor of law. I will be finishing my science degree (1st degree) next year and my wam (Australian GPA) is around top 20-30% of my class.

I came to Australia three years ago to undertake a dual degree UG course and now, if I choose to stay in Sydney, I will have my LLB degree by the end of 2020. But in the past 3 years, I have became incredibly homesick and regretted coming to Sydney since I can only see my family once a year. Now I want to go back to the US and unite with my family and I am trying every possible way out of it. I learned from my faculty that I will have a choice to continue my LLB part (2 years) of my second degree from USYD or just graduate. I have been thinking for over 6 months and now have decided to apply for JD in the US. I have a LSAT score of 178, but my GPA is only 2.9 (a part of the reason is that Australia University has different schooling and marking system than the US University, and I can probably explain that in my application).

I am just wondering if my (foreign?) GPA would play a big part in my application and if I have a shot with the t6 or t14 law schools. Because Sydney Law School was ranked the 11th last year and it would be stupid for me to drop USYD and go to law school that is outside the t14.

Thank you guys for helping me here. I really appreciate any consideration.

P.S. Because I have already done all the first year law subjects (e.g. torts, contracts etc.) in my past 3 years of study, and based on what I have heard, the study pattern to do law is not much different back in the US. I am just wondering here whether that could be any help in my application. Or if I can't get into the t6 straight away, any chance for me to get into the t14 and transfer after 1st year?

[pleasesendhelp]

Your chances at a t6 or t14 depend entirely on what your transcript is evaluated as by LSAC. For foreign transcripts, LSAC gives a rating instead of a GPA to law schools. These ratings are Below Average, Average, Above Average, Superior. Foreign transcripts matter a lot more than what you might have heard. I was told that my GPA essentially doesn't matter. After researching for months, I learned that foreign transcripts act as thresholds. Meaning you need to have a minimum GPA to have more than a 0% shot. On top of that, if you pass that threshold, it doesn't help you in any way because US law schools don't need to report foreign transcripts for ranking purposes. So your LSAT (after you meet the threshold) is essentially all that matters (along with your softs LOR's and extracurriculars etc.).

With your GPA you're looking at a Below Average or Average evaluation. If your school is ranked super high and has a reputation for being incredibly rigorous, you may get an Above Average. I got an Above average with a 3.1 from a uni in South Korea (dual degree in bio/lit and #2 uni in the nation), but a 3.1 is significantly different from a 2.9.

Having anything below Above Average really hurts. It basically blocks you out of most t14 even with your amazing LSAT score, which sucks because that really is a fucking great score.

The thing is, LSAC almost evaluates foreign transcripts arbitrarily so there's no truly accurate way to predict what rating you'll receive. So submit your transcript and wait it out. It could be a long or short wait. Mine took about a week and a half, some have waited over 8 weeks.

In regards to transferring... It's tough. You need to be TOP of your class. #1 or #2 to transfer from a lower t14 into a higher. On average, less than 10 transfers are accepted each year for the upper t14, so it's not something I would plan on. The first school you go to should be a school you'd be happy graduating from.

[rosbaz]

Your chances at a t6 or t14 depend entirely on what your transcript is evaluated as by LSAC. For foreign transcripts, LSAC gives a rating instead of a GPA to law schools. These ratings are Below Average, Average, Above Average, Superior. Foreign transcripts matter a lot more than what you might have heard. I was told that my GPA essentially doesn't matter. After researching for months, I learned that foreign transcripts act as thresholds. Meaning you need to have a minimum GPA to have more than a 0% shot. On top of that, if you pass that threshold, it doesn't help you in any way because US law schools don't need to report foreign transcripts for ranking purposes. So your LSAT (after you meet the threshold) is essentially all that matters (along with your softs LOR's and extracurriculars etc.).

With your GPA you're looking at a Below Average or Average evaluation. If your school is ranked super high and has a reputation for being incredibly rigorous, you may get an Above Average. I got an Above average with a 3.1 from a uni in South Korea (dual degree in bio/lit and #2 uni in the nation), but a 3.1 is significantly different from a 2.9.

Having anything below Above Average really hurts. It basically blocks you out of most t14 even with your amazing LSAT score, which sucks because that really is a fucking great score.

The thing is, LSAC almost evaluates foreign transcripts arbitrarily so there's no truly accurate way to predict what rating you'll receive. So submit your transcript and wait it out. It could be a long or short wait. Mine took about a week and a half, some have waited over 8 weeks.

In regards to transferring... It's tough. You need to be TOP of your class. #1 or #2 to transfer from a lower t14 into a higher. On average, less than 10 transfers are accepted each year for the upper t14, so it's not something I would plan on. The first school you go to should be a school you'd be happy graduating from.

Thank you so much for your help. I really appreciate it.

I checked the CAS website and it seems like they will only take student who has a complete UG transacript. I guess I still have one year to pull my GPA up then. Sydney uni is among the top3 of Australian Unis, and is famous here for failing students lols, hope this would help.

Still, thank you for your information. Hope all is going well for you.

[pleasesendhelp]

Your chances at a t6 or t14 depend entirely on what your transcript is evaluated as by LSAC. For foreign transcripts, LSAC gives a rating instead of a GPA to law schools. These ratings are Below Average, Average, Above Average, Superior. Foreign transcripts matter a lot more than what you might have heard. I was told that my GPA essentially doesn't matter. After researching for months, I learned that foreign transcripts act as thresholds. Meaning you need to have a minimum GPA to have more than a 0% shot. On top of that, if you pass that threshold, it doesn't help you in any way because US law schools don't need to report foreign transcripts for ranking purposes. So your LSAT (after you meet the threshold) is essentially all that matters (along with your softs LOR's and extracurriculars etc.).

With your GPA you're looking at a Below Average or Average evaluation. If your school is ranked super high and has a reputation for being incredibly rigorous, you may get an Above Average. I got an Above average with a 3.1 from a uni in South Korea (dual degree in bio/lit and #2 uni in the nation), but a 3.1 is significantly different from a 2.9.

Having anything below Above Average really hurts. It basically blocks you out of most t14 even with your amazing LSAT score, which sucks because that really is a fucking great score.

The thing is, LSAC almost evaluates foreign transcripts arbitrarily so there's no truly accurate way to predict what rating you'll receive. So submit your transcript and wait it out. It could be a long or short wait. Mine took about a week and a half, some have waited over 8 weeks.

In regards to transferring... It's tough. You need to be TOP of your class. #1 or #2 to transfer from a lower t14 into a higher. On average, less than 10 transfers are accepted each year for the upper t14, so it's not something I would plan on. The first school you go to should be a school you'd be happy graduating from.

Thank you so much for your help. I really appreciate it.

I checked the CAS website and it seems like they will only take student who has a complete UG transacript. I guess I still have one year to pull my GPA up then. Sydney uni is among the top3 of Australian Unis, and is famous here for failing students lols, hope this would help.

Still, thank you for your information. Hope all is going well for you.

No problem! International students have it rough since the info is so dispersed and decentralized. Glad to be of help

[dabigchina]

I'm not international, but given that OP said he's in the top 30% of his class I'm having a hard time believing CCN is going to take a pass on a 178. Hell, the t14 might be open to him even if he had a 2.9 from an American university without the crazy grade deflation.

OP: You already have the LSAT. You might as well take a shot. Write an addendum explaining the weird grading for Australian Unis.

[heythatslife]

Low GPAs from foreign schools are less of a bar to top schools than for domestic applicants, because your GPA won't be counted for the purpose of USNWR rankings though your LSAT will be. While I've never heard of anyone being admitted to HYS with anything other than a Superior rating, I think there's a good chance that one or more of the T6/T14 may bite, possibly with some $$ thrown in for your 178.

[hellohalo]

Your chances at a t6 or t14 depend entirely on what your transcript is evaluated as by LSAC. For foreign transcripts, LSAC gives a rating instead of a GPA to law schools. These ratings are Below Average, Average, Above Average, Superior. Foreign transcripts matter a lot more than what you might have heard. I was told that my GPA essentially doesn't matter. After researching for months, I learned that foreign transcripts act as thresholds. Meaning you need to have a minimum GPA to have more than a 0% shot. On top of that, if you pass that threshold, it doesn't help you in any way because US law schools don't need to report foreign transcripts for ranking purposes. So your LSAT (after you meet the threshold) is essentially all that matters (along with your softs LOR's and extracurriculars etc.).

With your GPA you're looking at a Below Average or Average evaluation. If your school is ranked super high and has a reputation for being incredibly rigorous, you may get an Above Average. I got an Above average with a 3.1 from a uni in South Korea (dual degree in bio/lit and #2 uni in the nation), but a 3.1 is significantly different from a 2.9.

Having anything below Above Average really hurts. It basically blocks you out of most t14 even with your amazing LSAT score, which sucks because that really is a fucking great score.

The thing is, LSAC almost evaluates foreign transcripts arbitrarily so there's no truly accurate way to predict what rating you'll receive. So submit your transcript and wait it out. It could be a long or short wait. Mine took about a week and a half, some have waited over 8 weeks.

In regards to transferring... It's tough. You need to be TOP of your class. #1 or #2 to transfer from a lower t14 into a higher. On average, less than 10 transfers are accepted each year for the upper t14, so it's not something I would plan on. The first school you go to should be a school you'd be happy graduating from.

Thank you for your info! Helpful. I got mine evaluated as B, 3.59... hope this won't rule me out of Columbia NYU etc... my LSAT is 174... forgive my insecurity.

The OP 2.9 GPA is out of 4?! That puts you top 20%ish? It's a little confusing...

[rosbaz]

Your chances at a t6 or t14 depend entirely on what your transcript is evaluated as by LSAC. For foreign transcripts, LSAC gives a rating instead of a GPA to law schools. These ratings are Below Average, Average, Above Average, Superior. Foreign transcripts matter a lot more than what you might have heard. I was told that my GPA essentially doesn't matter. After researching for months, I learned that foreign transcripts act as thresholds. Meaning you need to have a minimum GPA to have more than a 0% shot. On top of that, if you pass that threshold, it doesn't help you in any way because US law schools don't need to report foreign transcripts for ranking purposes. So your LSAT (after you meet the threshold) is essentially all that matters (along with your softs LOR's and extracurriculars etc.).

With your GPA you're looking at a Below Average or Average evaluation. If your school is ranked super high and has a reputation for being incredibly rigorous, you may get an Above Average. I got an Above average with a 3.1 from a uni in South Korea (dual degree in bio/lit and #2 uni in the nation), but a 3.1 is significantly different from a 2.9.

Having anything below Above Average really hurts. It basically blocks you out of most t14 even with your amazing LSAT score, which sucks because that really is a fucking great score.

The thing is, LSAC almost evaluates foreign transcripts arbitrarily so there's no truly accurate way to predict what rating you'll receive. So submit your transcript and wait it out. It could be a long or short wait. Mine took about a week and a half, some have waited over 8 weeks.

In regards to transferring... It's tough. You need to be TOP of your class. #1 or #2 to transfer from a lower t14 into a higher. On average, less than 10 transfers are accepted each year for the upper t14, so it's not something I would plan on. The first school you go to should be a school you'd be happy graduating from.

Thank you for your info! Helpful. I got mine evaluated as B, 3.59... hope this won't rule me out of Columbia NYU etc... my LSAT is 174... forgive my insecurity.

The OP 2.9 GPA is out of 4?! That puts you top 20%ish? It's a little confusing...

It's crazy here. A typical mark distribution is
10% gets below 50 (fail)
50% gets 50-65
30-35% gets 66-84
3%-10% gets over 85
(For a typical mid-sem, the fail rate is even crazier, usually around 40%.)
.....................

At my law school, people get into top 10%-15% for sure (even higher) with a mark over 75...

Just gonna try hard next year to pull my gpa up... But I guess anything average 3/4 is pretty worth celebrating.

[rosbaz]

Low GPAs from foreign schools are less of a bar to top schools than for domestic applicants, because your GPA won't be counted for the purpose of USNWR rankings though your LSAT will be. While I've never heard of anyone being admitted to HYS with anything other than a Superior rating, I think there's a good chance that one or more of the T6/T14 may bite, possibly with some $$ thrown in for your 178.

Thanks for your info. Big help!

[rosbaz]

I'm not international, but given that OP said he's in the top 30% of his class I'm having a hard time believing CCN is going to take a pass on a 178. Hell, the t14 might be open to him even if he had a 2.9 from an American university without the crazy grade deflation.

OP: You already have the LSAT. You might as well take a shot. Write an addendum explaining the weird grading for Australian Unis.

Thanks for your info. It helps a lot!

[RictusErectus]

Low GPAs from foreign schools are less of a bar to top schools than for domestic applicants, because your GPA won't be counted for the purpose of USNWR rankings though your LSAT will be. While I've never heard of anyone being admitted to HYS with anything other than a Superior rating, I think there's a good chance that one or more of the T6/T14 may bite, possibly with some $$ thrown in for your 178.

For what it's worth, I know of someone who was admitted to H with a 172 LSAT and 'Above Average' transcript rating.

OP, I think you should definitely consider applying. That LSAT score is great, and will draw many top schools to you, even T6. They won't have to report your GPA score to USWNR, so with just an LSAT score you make an excellent candidate even just stats-wise.

LSAC has variable classifications depending on the country, university, and grading system. I submitted transcripts from the UK and China, both scored out of 100. For the UK, anything above 70 was 'Superior' while for China, 'Superior' needed 85+. If the grading system for U of Sydney is truly as strict as you are saying, they'll definitely accommodate for it. The best way to find out is to see if any senior or alum has also applied to LSAC. They'll have the grading rubric on them.

Best of luck!

[pleasesendhelp]

Your chances at a t6 or t14 depend entirely on what your transcript is evaluated as by LSAC. For foreign transcripts, LSAC gives a rating instead of a GPA to law schools. These ratings are Below Average, Average, Above Average, Superior. Foreign transcripts matter a lot more than what you might have heard. I was told that my GPA essentially doesn't matter. After researching for months, I learned that foreign transcripts act as thresholds. Meaning you need to have a minimum GPA to have more than a 0% shot. On top of that, if you pass that threshold, it doesn't help you in any way because US law schools don't need to report foreign transcripts for ranking purposes. So your LSAT (after you meet the threshold) is essentially all that matters (along with your softs LOR's and extracurriculars etc.).

With your GPA you're looking at a Below Average or Average evaluation. If your school is ranked super high and has a reputation for being incredibly rigorous, you may get an Above Average. I got an Above average with a 3.1 from a uni in South Korea (dual degree in bio/lit and #2 uni in the nation), but a 3.1 is significantly different from a 2.9.

Having anything below Above Average really hurts. It basically blocks you out of most t14 even with your amazing LSAT score, which sucks because that really is a fucking great score.

The thing is, LSAC almost evaluates foreign transcripts arbitrarily so there's no truly accurate way to predict what rating you'll receive. So submit your transcript and wait it out. It could be a long or short wait. Mine took about a week and a half, some have waited over 8 weeks.

In regards to transferring... It's tough. You need to be TOP of your class. #1 or #2 to transfer from a lower t14 into a higher. On average, less than 10 transfers are accepted each year for the upper t14, so it's not something I would plan on. The first school you go to should be a school you'd be happy graduating from.

Thank you for your info! Helpful. I got mine evaluated as B, 3.59... hope this won't rule me out of Columbia NYU etc... my LSAT is 174... forgive my insecurity.

The OP 2.9 GPA is out of 4?! That puts you top 20%ish? It's a little confusing...

Is your transcript from an international institution? If so you shouldn't receive a number evaluation. Regardless, with a 3.59 you'd get an Above Average and with that LSAT you've got a great shot (I'd say guaranteed unless you've got felony charges or something horrendous in application) admission at both Columbia and NYU. Scholarship wise I have no idea. It's less predictable than estimating admissions.