Top Law Schools

Hey guys,

First time I've been on the forum, wanted to
Get some feedback on top schools, specifically Stanford, Berkeley, Harvard, Columbia, UCLA, Yale.

-Princeton class of 2015
-GPA:3.35 (grade deflation is the worst)
-LSAT: 173
-African-Canadian

I've spent my summers from 2011-2015 interning in investment banking in New York and Toronto at JPMorgan. After grad, I worked full time
At JPM in London, England for a year.

Im about to start a year long position with a Member Parliament in Canada (the equivalent of a hybrid between a congressman and senator in US terms) doing constituency work specifically with regards to rural poverty.

Appreciate any feedback

any and all help would be good, applications arent cheap

Gstate wrote:any and all help would be good, applications arent cheap

I would think MyLSN would have info for you.

Apply to everywhere and get your apps in early. myLSN has very small sample sizes for your stat range, but you should be in for a great cycle. I can't speak to how your GPA from Princeton will be viewed, but Princeton grads are certainly well represented at top schools so I would imagine adcomms are pretty well aware of the grade deflation. Good luck with your cycle!

Thanks very much, one thing I noticed is that not much attention is paid to professional/work experiences on the forums. Can anyone speak to how (if at all) this plays into decisions? Of course these things arent measurable on MyLSN and so I thought I'd ask

Gstate wrote:Thanks very much, one thing I noticed is that not much attention is paid to professional/work experiences on the forums. Can anyone speak to how (if at all) this plays into decisions? Of course these things arent measurable on MyLSN and so I thought I'd ask

Work experience isn't very important in admissions. Some IB and legislature experience is pretty unremarkable stuff at top schools. Good for interviews in the future, however.

pretty good shot at HCCN down. coinflip's chance at YS. Why UCLA? Seems kind of random to me.

I've personally never understood why people from super elite undergrads want to go to law school but to each their own.

ETA: nobody cares about your work experience. Trust me on this.

.

Gstate wrote:Thanks very much, one thing I noticed is that not much attention is paid to professional/work experiences on the forums. Can anyone speak to how (if at all) this plays into decisions? Of course these things arent measurable on MyLSN and so I thought I'd ask

Softs factors are usually not very important. As mentioned above, your softs are OK and will not be that helpful, as law school admissions is heavily based on numbers. (As a general rule, if you are above both the LSAT and GPA medians, you will probably be accepted, although exceptions do exist). Law schools known for accepting splitters are UVA and Northwestern.

Examples of very good softs:

Rhodes Scholarship, Marshall Scholarship, Fulbright, etc. (You get the point.)

Gray wrote:

Gstate wrote:Thanks very much, one thing I noticed is that not much attention is paid to professional/work experiences on the forums. Can anyone speak to how (if at all) this plays into decisions? Of course these things arent measurable on MyLSN and so I thought I'd ask

FWIW it will be considered more heavily at UofT (if you apply).

True, I would suggest applying to Toronto, McGill, and UBC as well.

HYPSM wrote:Law schools known for accepting splitters are UVA and Northwestern.

Dude is a URM with a 173 and a HYP undergrad. I think he can do better than UVA and Northwestern.

you'd be an idiot to go to law school.

dabigchina wrote:

HYPSM wrote:Law schools known for accepting splitters are UVA and Northwestern.

Dude is a URM with a 173 and a HYP undergrad. I think he can do better than UVA and Northwestern.

Agreed, but OP is the one who mentioned UCLA. I personally think he may get WL'd at HYSCC, which is why I suggested applying to UVA/Northwestern/UofT/McGill/UBC.

To clarify, now that its clear the softs don't matter then I'd want to clarify that I added UCLA as a safety. I'm more skewed towards the West Coast, and so Berkley and Stanford are top of my list. If Stanford is seen as a reach, how does this audience consider Berkley for my profile?

Thanks for everyone's input

Gstate wrote:To clarify, now that its clear the softs don't matter then I'd add that I added UCLA as a safety. I'm more skewed towards the West Coast, and so Berkley and Stanford are top of my list. If Stanford is seen as a reach, how does this audience consider Berkley for my profile?

Thanks for everyone's input

I wouldn't go to law school if I had to be on the west coast and UCLA were my only option.

I have no idea how Cal treats URMs so you might be SoL. You are by no means out of the running at Stanford.

I seriously doubt you will be waitlisted at CCN.

dabigchina wrote:

Gstate wrote:To clarify, now that its clear the softs don't matter then I'd add that I added UCLA as a safety. I'm more skewed towards the West Coast, and so Berkley and Stanford are top of my list. If Stanford is seen as a reach, how does this audience consider Berkley for my profile?

Thanks for everyone's input

I wouldn't go to law school if I had to be on the west coast and UCLA were my only option.

I have no idea how Cal treats URMs so you might be SoL. You are by no means out of the running at Stanford.

I seriously doubt you will be waitlisted at CCN.

I was speaking from experience (a friend/URM with the same numbers), but I acknowledge he may have been an exception. It's always difficult to predict with splitter URMs, I think.

Gstate wrote:Hey guys,

First time I've been on the forum, wanted to
Get some feedback on top schools, specifically Stanford, Berkeley, Harvard, Columbia, UCLA, Yale.

-Princeton class of 2015
-GPA:3.35 (grade deflation is the worst)
-LSAT: 173
-African-Canadian

I've spent my summers from 2011-2015 interning in investment banking in New York and Toronto at JPMorgan. After grad, I worked full time
At JPM in London, England for a year.

Im about to start a year long position with a Member Parliament in Canada (the equivalent of a hybrid between a congressman and senator in US terms) doing constituency work specifically with regards to rural poverty.

Appreciate any feedback

Youre me with better softs. African Canadian k-jd with a U Toronto undergrad 3.29 and a 173.

I was out at Harvard Yale Stanford Berkeley
WL at UVA and Chicago
In at Columbia NYU Penn (110k) Michigan(Full tuition+10k/yr Darrow scholarship) Duke Cornell Northwestern Georgetown Toronto Western

I'd think youd get in everywhere I did at least. Your Princeton undergrad plus work experience should help you at Harvard as well. But the extent to which they take into account grade deflation is debatable. I think people are being a little too optimistic about your chances at HYS and Berkeley. Someone said a coin flip, that's ridiculous.

dabigchina wrote:I've personally never understood why people from super elite undergrads want to go to law school but to each their own.

to become lawyers? you can't practice law without a JD. How is this confusing?

does African-Canadian receive an equivalent boost to AA? If so, I think you have a strong shot at Harvard, Columbia, and Berkeley from the schools you listed, easy admission to UCLA, and a chance but not a strong one at Yale and Stanford.

jbagelboy wrote:does African-Canadian receive an equivalent boost to AA? If so, I think you have a strong shot at Harvard, Columbia, and Berkeley from the schools you listed, easy admission to UCLA, and a chance but not a strong one at Yale and Stanford.

It does but like i said. I think Harvard and Berkeley like reverse splitters a lot more than regular splitter URM's. I was dinged at both despite an otherwise strong cycle. Columbia should be an easy admit.,

jbagelboy wrote:

dabigchina wrote:I've personally never understood why people from super elite undergrads want to go to law school but to each their own.

to become lawyers? you can't practice law without a JD. How is this confusing?

He was asking why anybody would want to become a lawyer after graduating from an elite school.

HYPSM wrote:

jbagelboy wrote:

dabigchina wrote:I've personally never understood why people from super elite undergrads want to go to law school but to each their own.

to become lawyers? you can't practice law without a JD. How is this confusing?

He was asking why anybody would want to become a lawyer after graduating from an elite school.

that seems like a really naive question with a tautological answer--why would anyone want to enter any profession? because they want to? how does where you got your B.A. matter? I just really don't understand. There's no opportunity cost question here because the barrier to entry to practice law isn't where you got your bachelors, its whether you have a J.D.

The first thing you need to do is decide in which country you want to practice, and then, attend law school in that country. If you want to be a lawyer in Canada, go to a law school there, even if it is a less prestigious school. The multi-year accreditation requirements apply to all foreign-trained lawyers, even Harvard graduates. And you will still then have to compete with students who actually studied Canadian law.

jbagelboy wrote:

HYPSM wrote:

jbagelboy wrote:

dabigchina wrote:I've personally never understood why people from super elite undergrads want to go to law school but to each their own.

to become lawyers? you can't practice law without a JD. How is this confusing?

He was asking why anybody would want to become a lawyer after graduating from an elite school.

that seems like a really naive question with a tautological answer--why would anyone want to enter any profession? because they want to? how does where you got your B.A. matter? I just really don't understand. There's no opportunity cost question here because the barrier to entry to practice law isn't where you got your bachelors, its whether you have a J.D.

I think HYPSM's point was that a Princeton grad theoretically has access to a broad range of career paths, and being a lawyer kind of sucks. It's kind of like intentionally ordering the worst thing on the menu.

jbagelboy wrote:

HYPSM wrote:

jbagelboy wrote:

dabigchina wrote:I've personally never understood why people from super elite undergrads want to go to law school but to each their own.

to become lawyers? you can't practice law without a JD. How is this confusing?

He was asking why anybody would want to become a lawyer after graduating from an elite school.

that seems like a really naive question with a tautological answer--why would anyone want to enter any profession? because they want to? how does where you got your B.A. matter? I just really don't understand. There's no opportunity cost question here because the barrier to entry to practice law isn't where you got your bachelors, its whether you have a J.D.

Law school is probably most valuable as a method of signaling your intelligence/work ethic after an unimpressive undergrad.

It's not completely valueless if your undergrad is impressive, but it will make much less of a difference in your ability to get decent employment, find jobs, etc. than it would for someone from Shitty State U with a 3.4.

And frankly, practicing law is shitty for a huge number of people, so if someone already has the "I'm smart" credential and is on a great career path, it's always weird to see them decide to give that up for a profession that makes people miserable