Top Law Schools

Hello all,

I am writing to see whether or not I should even bother applying to law school. To give you a feel of my background, I will enumerate some of my past achievements.

Education:
I obtained a BA in Middle Eastern Studies/Arabic at a private school, procuring a 3.82 GPA and a place in the Golden Key International Honors Society. At this particular school, I traveled to the Middle East and participated in a study abroad program. I was able to achieve Advanced-MID on the ACTFL OPI for Arabic and Advanced for reading comprehension in the same language. I have traveled and lived in Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, Kuwait, and Israel. Also, my institution rewarded me for my academic achievements with a Full-Tuition scholarship for the last 2 years of my BA program.

Later in life, I acquired a MA in Classics (Ancient Latin and Greek) from a reputable public institution in the South. I was able to procure a 3.95 GPA, and I was inducted into the Phi Kappa Phi Honors Society. I picked up two additional languages and continued to maintain my Arabic skills.

Work Experience:
I am a veteran who served in the Navy attached to Marine Corps units in the last decade. I pursued this avenue upon graduating from high school. I served 4 and half years, until I was medically discharged for injuries sustained in combat. I work no jobs worthy of mention here. As of late, I have been pursuing teacher certifications.

With the little information provided, what advice do any of you have for me? Will these credentials bolster my application? Also, does age play a role for admissions committees? I know I need to take the LSAT, so I will peruse the forum on here to find out what materials to use. However, if any of you are willing to share advice on this aspect, please do.

Let's start with the most basic question. Do you want to be a lawyer? If yes, why do you want to be a lawyer?

You survived the marine core talking like that? Embark, enumerate, procure?

fliptrip wrote:Let's start with the most basic question. Do you want to be a lawyer? If yes, why do you want to be a lawyer?

I believe what draws me to this particular profession pertains to international law and constitutional law: International law because of the economic aspects and constitutional law for its philosophical nature. I find great joy in defending my arguments or persuading people to see my point of view. The whole Socratic method, which law schools employ, is another attraction for me as well.

International law (trade and treaties) seems to be a good fit with my skill sets and experience. However, this is just my initial assumptions. Constitutional law would be loads of fun. I am not sure what the prospects are in the field with the rise of globalization.

My personal hobbies are economics and philosophy. The more I read, the more law appears to be a good fit.

jrass wrote:You survived the marine core talking like that? Embark, enumerate, procure?

No, this is something I adopted after my time in the service. I like to use a wide range of vocabulary to keep the mind sharp. It is just a personal choice. I am not trying to be ostentatious. I am sorry if it appears as such.

Ciceronian43 wrote:

jrass wrote:You survived the marine core talking like that? Embark, enumerate, procure?[/quote

No, this is something I adopted after my time in the service. I like to use a wide range of vocabulary to keep the mind sharp. It is just a personal choice. I am not trying to be ostentatious. I am sorry if it appears as such.

It sure does haha.
Did you use gi bill/yellow ribbon etc for your MA?

It sure does haha.
Did you use gi bill/yellow ribbon etc for your MA?

I have some G.I. Bill left over.

Unless you're going to a top top school (think Harvard/Yale) you're probably not going to be messing with the type of "international law" you seem to be interested in. Maybe look into doing policy work

eagle2a wrote:Unless you're going to a top top school (think Harvard/Yale) you're probably not going to be messing with the type of "international law" you seem to be interested in. Maybe look into doing policy work

I was looking at the top 15 schools. I guess the deciding factors will ultimately be LSAT preparation and its results.

Ciceronian43 wrote:

fliptrip wrote:Let's start with the most basic question. Do you want to be a lawyer? If yes, why do you want to be a lawyer?

I believe what draws me to this particular profession pertains to international law and constitutional law: International law because of the economic aspects and constitutional law for its philosophical nature. I find great joy in defending my arguments or persuading people to see my point of view. The whole Socratic method, which law schools employ, is another attraction for me as well.

International law (trade and treaties) seems to be a good fit with my skill sets and experience. However, this is just my initial assumptions. Constitutional law would be loads of fun. I am not sure what the prospects are in the field with the rise of globalization.

My personal hobbies are economics and philosophy. The more I read, the more law appears to be a good fit.

Don't waste your time on here. Delete your username, focus entirely on the lsat, then come back with a score.

Your undergrad GPA is good, so that is a great start. Your undergrad GPA will be 40% of what you are evaluated on in your application. the other 50% will be your LSAT score. So you would really need to take that to get an accurate picture of what school you might end up going to. All the other things you mentioned will make up 10% of what you are evaluated on.

The real question is, do you want to be a lawyer? Realize that most lawyers work for law firms, and a law firm is a business. What you are ultimately judged on when working at a law firm is your ability to make the firm money. Waxing eloquently on the finer points of international economic law, while intellectually stimulating, may not be the most profitable. You'll need to churn out work product that can be billed to the client.

A legal career can be rewarding if you enjoy the nature of the work. Do you want to try cases in court, draft pleadings, review contracts, advise clients on the law, negotiate settlements, fill out lots of paperwork, represent clients even when sometimes you know they are in the wrong?

Also, keep in mind that legal jobs in fields like international law are jobs that most law students want. Therefore, there is a lot of competition for jobs in such a field. However, most of the demand for legal services is in fields like family law, bankruptcy, and personal injury. Would still want to be a lawyer if you end up practicing in an area of law that wasn't your first choice?

SDviaVA wrote:Your undergrad GPA is good, so that is a great start. Your undergrad GPA will be 40% of what you are evaluated on in your application. the other 50% will be your LSAT score. So you would really need to take that to get an accurate picture of what school you might end up going to. All the other things you mentioned will make up 10% of what you are evaluated on.

The real question is, do you want to be a lawyer? Realize that most lawyers work for law firms, and a law firm is a business. What you are ultimately judged on when working at a law firm is your ability to make the firm money. Waxing eloquently on the finer points of international economic law, while intellectually stimulating, may not be the most profitable. You'll need to churn out work product that can be billed to the client.

A legal career can be rewarding if you enjoy the nature of the work. Do you want to try cases in court, draft pleadings, review contracts, advise clients on the law, negotiate settlements, fill out lots of paperwork, represent clients even when sometimes you know they are in the wrong?

Also, keep in mind that legal jobs in fields like international law are jobs that most law students want. Therefore, there is a lot of competition for jobs in such a field. However, most of the demand for legal services is in fields like family law, bankruptcy, and personal injury. Would still want to be a lawyer if you end up practicing in an area of law that wasn't your first choice?

Thank you for this candid reply. I didn't know the breakdown of the criteria for the admissions committee. I do think that legal defense or even prosecution would be something to look into.

Though the competition may be stiff, I think I will engage the idea of international law as my top aspiration, relegating to trial law if the former doesn't happen.

Now, it is off to research LSAT prep material.

Ciceronian43 wrote:

SDviaVA wrote:Your undergrad GPA is good, so that is a great start. Your undergrad GPA will be 40% of what you are evaluated on in your application. the other 50% will be your LSAT score. So you would really need to take that to get an accurate picture of what school you might end up going to. All the other things you mentioned will make up 10% of what you are evaluated on.

The real question is, do you want to be a lawyer? Realize that most lawyers work for law firms, and a law firm is a business. What you are ultimately judged on when working at a law firm is your ability to make the firm money. Waxing eloquently on the finer points of international economic law, while intellectually stimulating, may not be the most profitable. You'll need to churn out work product that can be billed to the client.

A legal career can be rewarding if you enjoy the nature of the work. Do you want to try cases in court, draft pleadings, review contracts, advise clients on the law, negotiate settlements, fill out lots of paperwork, represent clients even when sometimes you know they are in the wrong?

Also, keep in mind that legal jobs in fields like international law are jobs that most law students want. Therefore, there is a lot of competition for jobs in such a field. However, most of the demand for legal services is in fields like family law, bankruptcy, and personal injury. Would still want to be a lawyer if you end up practicing in an area of law that wasn't your first choice?

Thank you for this candid reply. I didn't know the breakdown of the criteria for the admissions committee. I do think that legal defense or even prosecution would be something to look into.

Though the competition may be stiff, I think I will engage the idea of international law as my top aspiration, relegating to trial law if the former doesn't happen.

Now, it is off to research LSAT prep material.

Thats because he just made them up lol. Its all a numbers game though, and if I were to pull numbers out of nowhere I'd prob raise the LSAT well above 50%. In reality its much more focused around medians though, above both for money, under both for no admission, between the 25% and 75th% with one over and the other below median, probable admission. Above one 75th and below one 25th truly depends on the school, but if you're above 75th for LSAT you're in at splitter friendly schools usually and dinged at reverse splitter friendly schools.

The overwhelming majority of applications and schools would line up to these broad rules.

My advice to you is not to take the LSAT until you are CONSISTENTLY destroying practice tests. No use seeking anything but perfection here. You seem like a bright motivated dude, settling for a meh score and wasting a good GPA would be a real shame. It can be a frustrating experience getting to that level, but its a multiple choice test that will mean more to your application than all the rest of your life combined (in that applying with a shitty score will put you at a shitty school, regardless of everything else).

Also, and I apologize for the frankness here, but using a wide vocabulary doesn't keep the mind sharp, it just makes you sound like a tool. Now I'm not saying you're a tool by any means, I'm sure you're great, I'm just politely informing you that if this were real life, and you spoke (or wrote) like this day to day, I'd walk away and think "wow, that guy is a tool".

Have thine contemplated a theatrical endeavor?

Clearly wrote:Also, and I apologize for the frankness here, but using a wide vocabulary doesn't keep the mind sharp, it just makes you sound like a tool. Now I'm not saying you're a tool by any means, I'm sure you're great, I'm just politely informing you that if this were real life, and you spoke (or wrote) like this day to day, I'd walk away and think "wow, that guy is a tool".

This. Also, you have some diction issues that aren't helping ("relegate" to trial law for example).

Also, LSAT/GPA weights are knowable at least in the sense that admission index formulae are available. So at Stanford LSAT counts about two times what GPA does and at Columbia it counts over 3 times as much. But we didn't need to resort to all that to affirm that the LSAT is extremely important for admissions.

Ciceronian43 wrote:

eagle2a wrote:Unless you're going to a top top school (think Harvard/Yale) you're probably not going to be messing with the type of "international law" you seem to be interested in. Maybe look into doing policy work

I was looking at the top 15 schools. I guess the deciding factors will ultimately be LSAT preparation and its results.

This isn't true. OP, assuming you've accurately portrayed everything you've stated here, you seem smart. If that transfers to law school, eg the prospect of a 4 hour essay exam determining your grade (maybe some for participation or something) just balance the amount of money they'll offer with the location and you'll be fine. Look into investor-trade disputes and the issues (legal and otherwise) associated with it. Might find it interesting!

Catsinthebag wrote:

Ciceronian43 wrote:

eagle2a wrote:Unless you're going to a top top school (think Harvard/Yale) you're probably not going to be messing with the type of "international law" you seem to be interested in. Maybe look into doing policy work

I was looking at the top 15 schools. I guess the deciding factors will ultimately be LSAT preparation and its results.

This isn't true. OP, assuming you've accurately portrayed everything you've stated here, you seem smart. If that transfers to law school, eg the prospect of a 4 hour essay exam determining your grade (maybe some for participation or something) just balance the amount of money they'll offer with the location and you'll be fine. Look into investor-trade disputes and the issues (legal and otherwise) associated with it. Might find it interesting!

Mods, please

Thank you all for your remarks. I will return to the forum after I have obtained an LSAT score.

eagle2a wrote:

Catsinthebag wrote:

Ciceronian43 wrote:

eagle2a wrote:Unless you're going to a top top school (think Harvard/Yale) you're probably not going to be messing with the type of "international law" you seem to be interested in. Maybe look into doing policy work

I was looking at the top 15 schools. I guess the deciding factors will ultimately be LSAT preparation and its results.

This isn't true. OP, assuming you've accurately portrayed everything you've stated here, you seem smart. If that transfers to law school, eg the prospect of a 4 hour essay exam determining your grade (maybe some for participation or something) just balance the amount of money they'll offer with the location and you'll be fine. Look into investor-trade disputes and the issues (legal and otherwise) associated with it. Might find it interesting!

Mods, please

Ciceronian43 wrote:Thank you all for your remarks. I will return to the forum after I have obtained an LSAT score.

That's great, but if you don't stop talking like a douche robot, I'm not gonna help you when you do.

Clearly wrote:

Ciceronian43 wrote:Thank you all for your remarks. I will return to the forum after I have obtained an LSAT score.

That's great, but if you don't stop talking like a douche robot, I'm not gonna help you when you do.

Seriously. This all was uncomfortable to read

One thing please don't write like this in your personal statement- it can kill an otherwise great app. Sound more like a socially adjusted person.

OLitch wrote:Have thine contemplated a theatrical endeavor?

"Hast thou," technically.

Clearly wrote:

Ciceronian43 wrote:Thank you all for your remarks. I will return to the forum after I have obtained an LSAT score.

That's great, but if you don't stop talking like a douche robot, I'm not gonna help you when you do.

I am sure this will just end his/her life, that some guy from the internet who likes to put others down for being eccentric and liking the classics won't help him. omggggg Clearly from TLS won't help me with my apppps, Boo hoo.

I get that his post was, umm, unique, but to sit here and put him/her down is a real cunt move.

Best of luck w/ the LSAT OP and get ready- this was a good elucidation of some of the narcissistic, self important losers you may come across in law school. You just have to get a good laugh at how pathetic it is that their own self worth comes from trying to put others down.