Top Law Schools

The February LSAT was my first time sitting for it. I had already sent in 13 apps before my score was released, most to top 50 schools, as well as 1 to Emory and 1 to GW. I studied for 1 month and was scoring in the low-160s on my preptests --- 153 was actually the exact score that I got on my diagnostic PT before having any idea what I was doing (my LG section was a 30% on my diag - LOL).

I have already contacted Emory (my brother is in fellowship at the Emory hospital), GSU, Richmond, Wake Forest (bro-in-law is a WFU Law alum), and UNC and told them to please put my file on hold, as I will be retaking the LSATs in June. I have already heard back from Akron (safety school) and was given a scholarship with no stips.

My question is, if I pull out a score in the 160s in June and receive a late admission to the 2019 class at a top-50 school, would you suggest accepting it or holding out another year and applying early for the next cycle, with the belief that more money may be available for them to give at that time?

I will be paying for my education with student loans and MLM business ($30-40k/year profit, should cove COL) and am currently debt-free with a few dollars in my savings to also help.

Thanks you

P.S I think that I want to practice law in PA, but am not in love with that

Just go to akron and be like those millionaire attorneys who went to TTTs. Forget the lsat.

lymenheimer wrote:Just go to akron and be like those millionaire attorneys who went to TTTs. Forget the lsat.

Haha, nice job trolling and bringing unrelated threads into this convo... reminds me of high school.

Anyway, if someone has better options than TTT schools, go with them. I was just saying, a TTT isnt a life sentence of failure.

It's the same calculus whether you're talking about June or right now. If you get into a school that gives you a good chance of entering your targeted career at reasonable cost, then it's worth it.

If you want to practice in Pennsylvania, then your best bet is to go to school in Pennsylvania and even more specifically, I'd divide the state into two and go to Villanova/Temple if I wanted Philly, and Pitt/Duquesne if I wanted western PA. I definitely wouldn't be going to UNC, Wake, or Emory if I wanted to practice in PA, regardless of how high I was able to get my LSAT.

fliptrip wrote:It's the same calculus whether you're talking about June or right now. If you get into a school that gives you a good chance of entering your targeted career at reasonable cost, then it's worth it.

If you want to practice in Pennsylvania, then your best bet is to go to school in Pennsylvania and even more specifically, I'd divide the state into two and go to Villanova/Temple if I wanted Philly, and Pitt/Duquesne if I wanted western PA. I definitely wouldn't be going to UNC, Wake, or Emory if I wanted to practice in PA, regardless of how high I was able to get my LSAT.

Thanks. I didn't mention - I have some family in the Atlanta area, and I have always talked about moving to North Carolina -- I don't think that I would mind practicing there (I also have some family in northern South Carolina). I could probably get into Duquesne as of now, but a scholarship would be severely limited. I applied to Penn State (I am a 3rd-generation alum there, have 7 other alums in my family) and Villanova. If I wait until next cycle, I will apply to Temple as well (and possibly Drexel).


FWIW, Duquesne medians are 152/3.44 and $38k/yr. I would imagine that Akron would have some play in Pittsburgh too, no? It's only maybe 2 hrs away.

Study using the guides on this forum and then post your score and ask again.

Tls2016 wrote:Study using the guides on this forum and then post your score and ask again.

I enrolled in a Kaplan course starting on March 14. Would you reccomend using BOTH that and this site to prep, or will just the Kaplan class be enough?

bmathers wrote:

Tls2016 wrote:Study using the guides on this forum and then post your score and ask again.

I enrolled in a Kaplan course starting on March 14. Would you reccomend using BOTH that and this site to prep, or will just the Kaplan class be enough?

This site is better than Kaplan. Read the guides or post in the LSAT section to ask. Generally people don't think that highly of Kaplan but it may be good for you if you need the discipline of a class for self study.

bmathers wrote:

Tls2016 wrote:Study using the guides on this forum and then post your score and ask again.

I enrolled in a Kaplan course starting on March 14. Would you reccomend using BOTH that and this site to prep, or will just the Kaplan class be enough?

90% of my tutoring business is Kaplan/Princeton Review refugees. Proceed with caution.

fliptrip wrote:

bmathers wrote:

Tls2016 wrote:Study using the guides on this forum and then post your score and ask again.

I enrolled in a Kaplan course starting on March 14. Would you reccomend using BOTH that and this site to prep, or will just the Kaplan class be enough?

90% of my tutoring business is Kaplan/Princeton Review refugees. Proceed with caution.

Thanks. I'll do both this site and kaplan then to prepare. All of my prep went out the window when I mis-sketched the 2nd or 3rd LG game and got rattled (LG was my first section), unfortunately. I''m not going to let that happen again.

bmathers wrote:

Tls2016 wrote:Study using the guides on this forum and then post your score and ask again.

I enrolled in a Kaplan course starting on March 14. Would you reccomend using BOTH that and this site to prep, or will just the Kaplan class be enough?

Kaplan is terrible. Don't waste your money.

tsujimoto74 wrote:

bmathers wrote:

Tls2016 wrote:Study using the guides on this forum and then post your score and ask again.

I enrolled in a Kaplan course starting on March 14. Would you reccomend using BOTH that and this site to prep, or will just the Kaplan class be enough?

Kaplan is terrible. Don't waste your money.

Why are they terrible?

If you want to practice in Pennsylvania, go to law school in Pennsylvania. Law schools are mostly regional and you are doing yourself a huge disservice if you go to a regional school in a region you don't want to practice. How do you intend to network? What kind of job do you imagine getting out of any of these schools? Will you make enough to service your debt? Will you even get a job as a lawyer?

This thread is a strong example of why people who are not qualified to give admissions/law school advice should not give it. You're applying with a 3.33/153, clearly know very little about job outcomes and the legal market, but feel comfortable telling other applicants to go to Michigan State based on a single anecdote.

Mullens wrote:This thread is a strong example of why people who are not qualified to give admissions/law school advice should not give it. You're applying with a 3.33/153, clearly know very little about job outcomes and the legal market, but feel comfortable telling other applicants to go to Michigan State based on a single anecdote.

Again, bringing an unrelated job thread into this one. Really? Do we have so little to do, that we must follow message board posters around to other threads, finding sly ways to refer to past comments? Come on, people.

If the advice of this board was taken as law, 2/3 of all law schools would be shut down. I know the 60% median employment rate in this nation within the first 9 months of entering the work force as an attorney. I'm half tempted to say "eff it", purposely go to a TTT and succeed just to blow your mind.

I have a network marketing business within the top 5% of the company. You want to talk about a low percentage? How about people who succeed in the network marketing business. However, if I took the advice that I'm sure is prevalent on here, I would have never even started for fear of the low % of success.

The best investment that you can make is in yourself - it is the only investment that you have 100% control of. Enough with these cheap shots.

bmathers wrote:

Mullens wrote:This thread is a strong example of why people who are not qualified to give admissions/law school advice should not give it. You're applying with a 3.33/153, clearly know very little about job outcomes and the legal market, but feel comfortable telling other applicants to go to Michigan State based on a single anecdote.

Again, bringing an unrelated job thread into this one. Really? Do we have so little to do, that we must follow message board posters around to other threads, finding sly ways to refer to past comments? Come on, people.

If the advice of this board was taken as law, 2/3 of all law schools would be shut down. I know the 60% median employment rate in this nation within the first 9 months of entering the work force as an attorney. I'm half tempted to say "eff it", purposely go to a TTT and succeed just to blow your mind.

If the advice of this board was taken as law, the supply of law school seats would rationalize to reflect the demand for new lawyers in the economy. The students who would be shut out of law school under this scenario would seek other work and be fine. The only ones who would be in trouble are the law professors and administrators who work at these schools and frankly, I'm not shedding too many tears for them.

I think most people here would be pretty happy to see 2/3 of law schools shut down, actually. Good luck at your TTT.

A. Nony Mouse wrote:I think most people here would be pretty happy to see 2/3 of law schools shut down, actually

That is precisely what I said Obviously this board would be happy, since it would be following their advice

bmathers wrote:

A. Nony Mouse wrote:I think most people here would be pretty happy to see 2/3 of law schools shut down, actually

That is precisely what I said Obviously this board would be happy, since it would be following their advice

Right. You seemed to suggest you disagreed, though?

The thing is, law is a super risk-averse profession. It's kind of like looking for all the problems that could ever happen before they do. And the downside of your law school choices not turning out well is pretty high. So it's not about elitism, but about helping people have the best chance at success they can. Something 0Ls don't often realize is that studying/retaking the LSAT is much more in your control than what grades you get in law school.

Mullens wrote: You're applying with a 3.33/153, clearly know very little about job outcomes and the legal market, but feel comfortable telling other applicants to go to Michigan State based on a single anecdote.

BTW, keep comments in context. That MSU comment was to a student with a low LSAT, high GPA, asking for schools that would weigh his high GPA heavier than his low LSAT, WITH THOSE NUMBERS - aka, did not want to be told "retake, retake ,retake." He has already taken his LSATs three times. To twist that as a way to blast me is mind-boggling, but go ahead and try.

As for my 153 and a TTT - I have already said that I will retake. But damn, is this ever an elitist forum

A. Nony Mouse wrote:

bmathers wrote:

A. Nony Mouse wrote:I think most people here would be pretty happy to see 2/3 of law schools shut down, actually

That is precisely what I said Obviously this board would be happy, since it would be following their advice

Right. You seemed to suggest you disagreed, though?

The thing is, law is a super risk-averse profession. It's kind of like looking for all the problems that could ever happen before they do. And the downside of your law school choices not turning out well is pretty high.

/i would absolutely agree with shutting down TTTT schools, but not nearly as drastic as 2/3.

Well, I'll jump in and try to explain a little better:

1. The I have x.xx/xxx stats and I'm looking for a school that will work with me kind of question often presents a false dichotomy. The assumption behind those questions is that the person has to proceed with x.xx/xxx stats. Though undoubtedly annoying, the right thing to do in an advisory capacity is to push/destroy this false dichotomy. So, if you have a 3.97/151 and you're asking which schools to attend among a set of horrific options, why wouldn't we bring up the idea that one need not accept those choices as absolute?

2. TLS is not elitist, but there is a clear orthodoxy. If you'd like advice from a different ortodoxy you can find it on the general law school admissions advice stuff that's just generally out on the internet. Now, some of the stuff they tell you (there's a ton of things you can do with a law degree besides practice law, for instance) is just outright wrong and borderline malpractice, but caveat emptor. But back to this non-elitist thing, you notice no one told you to retake to get to above 170 so you can have a shot to ED Northwestern, right? That's because your goals (we only know you want to practice in PA) would quite possibly be well served by attending any number of other "lower ranked" schools at reasonable cost.

3. You're entrepreneurial obviously. You have to accept that the entrepreneurial mindset is not often found among attorneys or aspiring attorneys. The idea of taking a big risk is pretty much anathema to them. Think about it, would you like a lawyer who was just like "hey man, take a shot! your upside is huge!"?

Thank you for clearly explaining that.

fliptrip wrote:Think about it, would you like a lawyer who was just like "hey man, take a shot! your upside is huge!"?

It depends on what it was about. Perhaps it is a large, inexpensive rental that you are looking to purchase as a fixer upper to make some money, but the numbers do not match, yet you feel like you could do something with it. Sometimes you just need to pull the trigger to rise up. Even though I have been considering law school for 10+ years now, law school is "pulling that trigger" for me. Action is the point where fear ends, action is what is going to produce a result.

Extreme hesitancy and fear of failure drives me nuts, i will say that.

bmathers wrote: Extreme hesitancy and fear of failure drives me nuts, i will say that.

LOL! That's what law school teaches you!

Get thee to business school!!!!!!!!!!

IMO, never taking action b/c you fear that you MAY fail, is not going to lead to success. Know the risks, be cognizant of them, but sometimes you just need to step off that ledge

bmathers wrote:Thank you for clearly explaining that.

fliptrip wrote:Think about it, would you like a lawyer who was just like "hey man, take a shot! your upside is huge!"?

It depends on what it was about. Perhaps it is a large, inexpensive rental that you are looking to purchase as a fixer upper to make some money, but the numbers do not match, yet you feel like you could do something with it. Sometimes you just need to pull the trigger to rise up. Even though I have been considering law school for 10+ years now, law school is "pulling that trigger" for me. Action is the point where fear ends, action is what is going to produce a result.

Extreme hesitancy and fear of failure drives me nuts, i will say that.

And as your lawyer, my job is to inform you of the myriad risks you're taking on from a legal perspective. If the property is not currently zoned for your intended use or has a particularly troublesome easement or your planned use carries a great chance of other liabilities, it's my job to tell you. It's not my job to advise you as to the wisdom or not of the business opportunity. If I were excited about taking on challenging business opportunities, I'd never have gone to law school. LOL.