Top Law Schools

I'm hoping to get advice on whether or not a t25 school is a possibility.

My GPA and LSAT are below mean for virtually all t25 schools. Hoping my non-trad status will be a saving grace; I obtained my MD in 2008 from UCSF (top 5). Completed orthopaedic surgery residency at NYU and have been practicing in a private group for the last two years.

I hope to one day get into public policy and/or politics and think a law degree (along with the connections a t25 can provide) would be extremely beneficial. For that reason, I am setting my sights on a top school only.

Anyone have any insight and/or advice? Much appreciated.

islanddive89 wrote:I'm hoping to get advice on whether or not a t25 school is a possibility.

My GPA and LSAT are below mean for virtually all t25 schools. Hoping my non-trad status will be a saving grace; I obtained my MD in 2008 from UCSF (top 5). Completed orthopaedic surgery residency at NYU and have been practicing in a private group for the last two years.

I hope to one day get into public policy and/or politics and think a law degree (along with the connections a t25 can provide) would be extremely beneficial. For that reason, I am setting my sights on a top school only.

Anyone have any insight and/or advice? Much appreciated.

Mylsn.info for chances. Unfortunately schools don't get points for admitting MDs (to my knowledge). Have you considered MPA/MPP? It would likely set you up better for politics earlier. If you are setting your sights on top schools only, you should drop the "T25" arbitrariness, retake the LSAT, and look at the schools that put people where you want to go. T14 is a decent metric because of the distinction between them and the rest in regards to job placement, but even with that you have to pick and choose with placement power. I'm a 0L, so feel free to disregard everything I just said.

Forgive me if this is out of line, but how did you get into UCSF with a 3.1? And as far as law school goes you could probably get in a somewhere in the t25 range, but I'm not really sure what kind of connections you think you'll be making that outweigh the connections you can make as a rich doctor.

lymenheimer wrote:

islanddive89 wrote:I'm hoping to get advice on whether or not a t25 school is a possibility.

My GPA and LSAT are below mean for virtually all t25 schools. Hoping my non-trad status will be a saving grace; I obtained my MD in 2008 from UCSF (top 5). Completed orthopaedic surgery residency at NYU and have been practicing in a private group for the last two years.

I hope to one day get into public policy and/or politics and think a law degree (along with the connections a t25 can provide) would be extremely beneficial. For that reason, I am setting my sights on a top school only.

Anyone have any insight and/or advice? Much appreciated.

Mylsn.info for chances. Unfortunately schools don't get points for admitting MDs (to my knowledge). Have you considered MPA/MPP? It would likely set you up better for politics earlier. If you are setting your sights on top schools only, you should drop the "T25" arbitrariness, retake the LSAT, and look at the schools that put people where you want to go. T14 is a decent metric because of the distinction between them and the rest in regards to job placement, but even with that you have to pick and choose with placement power. I'm a 0L, so feel free to disregard everything I just said.

Points well taken, thanks for the reply.

I need to read up on MPA/MPP; not totally sure what this is.

My LSAT score was from 2014, so I'd likely be starting from scratch with the studying. Not totally sure the amount of time I could commit to that considering I'm putting in 80+ hour weeks at the moment. I know this isn't the best answer, but it's all I've got right now.

I need to look into how this relates to law schools, but I do know med schools place a heavy emphasis on "X" factors in applicants. Hoping it will carry some weight, though again, I'm not nearly as familiar with this process as I am with MD.

oil wrote:Forgive me if this is out of line, but how did you get into UCSF with a 3.1? And as far as law school goes you could probably get in a somewhere in the t25 range, but I'm not really sure what kind of connections you think you'll be making that outweigh the connections you can make as a rich doctor.

39 MCAT, loads of research (some with UCSF faculty), and a 3.8 science GPA.

I suppose school is for more than just connections - I'm pretty excited about the actual skills/experience a great law school can provide...something money can't buy.. at least not in the literal sense.

islanddive89 wrote:
Points well taken, thanks for the reply.

I need to read up on MPA/MPP; not totally sure what this is.

My LSAT score was from 2014, so I'd likely be starting from scratch with the studying. Not totally sure the amount of time I could commit to that considering I'm putting in 80+ hour weeks at the moment. I know this isn't the best answer, but it's all I've got right now.

I need to look into how this relates to law schools, but I do know med schools place a heavy emphasis on "X" factors in applicants. Hoping it will carry some weight, though again, I'm not nearly as familiar with this process as I am with MD.

Law schools mostly look at numbers. Soft factors help insofar as they show that you are not a bump on a log, can handle graduate level work, etc, but they're generally only spoken to when as a borderline candidate. My SO was actually just going through the grad school app process (looking at Psych PhD/MD programs) and noted this difference between how our applications are weighed and measured. She was even more surprised that a bunch of law schools don't do interviews, whereas for her programs, your numbers get your interview, the interview sells you. It's unfortunate for those who didn't do 100% in UG, but can be overcome by a strong LSAT and some distance from your UG grades.

lymenheimer wrote:

islanddive89 wrote:
Points well taken, thanks for the reply.

I need to read up on MPA/MPP; not totally sure what this is.

My LSAT score was from 2014, so I'd likely be starting from scratch with the studying. Not totally sure the amount of time I could commit to that considering I'm putting in 80+ hour weeks at the moment. I know this isn't the best answer, but it's all I've got right now.

I need to look into how this relates to law schools, but I do know med schools place a heavy emphasis on "X" factors in applicants. Hoping it will carry some weight, though again, I'm not nearly as familiar with this process as I am with MD.

Law schools mostly look at numbers. Soft factors help insofar as they show that you are not a bump on a log, can handle graduate level work, etc, but they're generally only spoken to when as a borderline candidate. My SO was actually just going through the grad school app process (looking at Psych PhD/MD programs) and noted this difference between how our applications are weighed and measured. She was even more surprised that a bunch of law schools don't do interviews, whereas for her programs, your numbers get your interview, the interview sells you. It's unfortunate for those who didn't do 100% in UG, but can be overcome by a strong LSAT and some distance from your UG grades.

Thanks for the info.

I have not had LSAC compute my GPA with my medical school grades. I'm not sure how this will affect things since grading is quite different than UG; UCSF was on P/F, and High Honor/Honor/etc. during rotations. I graduated with honors, but again, we were never given specific class rankings/GPA.

islanddive89 wrote:

lymenheimer wrote:

islanddive89 wrote:
Points well taken, thanks for the reply.

I need to read up on MPA/MPP; not totally sure what this is.

My LSAT score was from 2014, so I'd likely be starting from scratch with the studying. Not totally sure the amount of time I could commit to that considering I'm putting in 80+ hour weeks at the moment. I know this isn't the best answer, but it's all I've got right now.

I need to look into how this relates to law schools, but I do know med schools place a heavy emphasis on "X" factors in applicants. Hoping it will carry some weight, though again, I'm not nearly as familiar with this process as I am with MD.

Law schools mostly look at numbers. Soft factors help insofar as they show that you are not a bump on a log, can handle graduate level work, etc, but they're generally only spoken to when as a borderline candidate. My SO was actually just going through the grad school app process (looking at Psych PhD/MD programs) and noted this difference between how our applications are weighed and measured. She was even more surprised that a bunch of law schools don't do interviews, whereas for her programs, your numbers get your interview, the interview sells you. It's unfortunate for those who didn't do 100% in UG, but can be overcome by a strong LSAT and some distance from your UG grades.

Thanks for the info.

I have not had LSAC compute my GPA with my medical school grades. I'm not sure how this will affect things since grading is quite different than UG; UCSF was on P/F, and High Honor/Honor/etc. during rotations. I graduated with honors, but again, we were never given specific class rankings/GPA.

Medical school grades will not factor in at all. Only your first UG degree is used in the calculations.

Being able to score in the 99th percentile for MCAT means you are most certainly going to be in the 99th percentile on LSAT with some reasonable preparation, which translates to 172+, which will most certainly put you in T14.

Eta: in other words, retake. I have more confidence in you than some other random 162 scorers.

I think there is a misunderstanding here. You would apply with undergrad grades, not what you got in med school. So if you have a 3.8 undergrad gpa you would use that, which is a stellar gpa.

JonTheMandamus wrote:I think there is a misunderstanding here. You would apply with undergrad grades, not what you got in med school. So if you have a 3.8 undergrad gpa you would use that, which is a stellar gpa.

Unfortunately my cumulative ugpa is a 3.1. The 3.8 I referenced is my uscience gpa; medical schools break out the two and place a heavier emphasis on the latter.

I appreciate everyone's feedback. I'm going to study for the LSAT over the next few months and see if I can break into high 160s. If so I think I'll apply to the t14...if not, I think I'll take a long hard look at whether another degree is the right move at this point.