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Hi everyone,

Long time lurker unveiled.

This past fall, as a Junior in college, I was cited for plagiarism. I provided citations but did not cite properly, aka did not put quotes around the content that was more or less verbatim. It is a serious case of plagiarism. I am compassionate to myself and recognize that this was a huge learning experience.

What steps should I be taking now so that when I disclose the incident I have a still have a strong case for admission? Should I ask for a letter from the dean or from the professor who cited me for the plagiarism, on my behalf? I don't have an excellent relationship with the professor but I imagine she would be willing to make amends if I explain my situation. Should I take time off after school to work?

Members of my family work in BigLaw and they have told me that Law school is not worth my time unless I attend a T14 school. I really do think that I want to study the law and practice as a lawyer. I think it is what I want to do above all else. Is it possible to have a legal career if I don't attend a top school? I am from Boston, where there are strong regional schools, such as BC. Is it a waste of time to go there? I really think that Law is the place for me. I believe the incident pointed me in the right direction and I am in many ways grateful, as much as remorseful, for the experience.

I recommend learning how to code.

E: seriously, it's tough to tell how this will affect you. Impossible to say until you apply. I doubt a school like BC is going to be anymore forgiving than a t-14 will be though. Making nice with the prof is probably a good idea. But the more you can do to seperate yourself from the incident, the better. Going K-Jd is a bad idea in the best of circumstances, seems doubly true in your case. Which gets me back to my original, and 100% serious, advice: learn how to code.

idk why you think the regional schools aren't going to care about plagiarism

Quick Edit: I thought that because they have lower stats, they would be more willing to take a student with higher stats who has a record with a transgression. In retrospect, that sounds foolish. I wrote my post in an unfocused and distressed state of mind, so forgive me if my reasoning is not what it should be. The incident is not on my official transcript, but that doesn't matter. Whether or not it is on my transcript, the ethical gravity remains the same.

academic misconduct involving dishonesty is basically the worst thing you can do for your law school chances

This post has got me so wound up.

while plagurism is the ultimate academic sin as a junior you should have been given some forgiveness in your mistake.

Your professor is clearly self important and you should be appealing the decision. I would plead mercy and show how you have learned from your mistakes.

I hope your law career isn't scuppered by this clown.

I think he must still disclose the incident regardless. Also he would definitely had some trouble during the character and fitness app.

Absolutely, but there's levels of discretion. As a junior you make mistakes. If the OP deliberately intended to plagurise then obviously that is serious but if he simply formatted badly then there should be room for discretion.

I've worked in teaching as well as legal practice. I honestly believe guidance is the best way at the junior level. Some professors would take this approach while clearly some want to play the hard man. It's a lottery.

Gelato1 wrote: This past fall, as a Junior in college, I was cited for plagiarism. I provided citations but did not cite properly, aka did not put quotes around the content that was more or less verbatim. It is a serious case of plagiarism. I am compassionate to myself and recognize that this was a huge learning experience.

I'm going to be blunt: stop spinning this into something it's not. You did not just fail to "cite properly." You copied someone else's work and passed it off as your own.

If you didn't put quotes around a couple of sentences, that could be a formatting mistake or something. But no college junior gets busted for plagiarism for that kind of thing. I bet you copied paragraphs (or pages) of text. You cheated. Own that.

If/when you apply to law schools, you're going to have to explain this in an addendum. Do not describe what you did as a citation mistake or some other such bullshit. You plagiarized someone else's work, got caught, learned your lesson, and won't do it again.

I rarely post on law school admission a forums given how long I have been out of law school. In this case, however, I would highly recommend that OP not rely on advice from TLS unless someone can cite relevant experience. As this is likely a serious issue in admissions, I doubt many people posting in this forum have the experience needed to provide you with proper advice.

OP, you need to start trying to find contacts that can help guide you through (to the extent possible) your plagiarism issue. Unfortunately, I don't have the experience to suggest what the best sources might be, but anybody who has been directly connected with admitting students to law school (perhaps, for example, someone from a school you will not be applying to) would be a good starting place. I would not rely on a random TLS poster because, despite the good intentions, they may not point you in the right direction and you may not get a do over after walking down that road.

rpupkin wrote:

Gelato1 wrote: This past fall, as a Junior in college, I was cited for plagiarism. I provided citations but did not cite properly, aka did not put quotes around the content that was more or less verbatim. It is a serious case of plagiarism. I am compassionate to myself and recognize that this was a huge learning experience.

I'm going to be blunt: stop spinning this into something it's not. You did not just fail to "cite properly." You copied someone else's work and passed it off as your own.

If you didn't put quotes around a couple of sentences, that could be a formatting mistake or something. But no college junior gets busted for plagiarism for that kind of thing. I bet you copied paragraphs (or pages) of text. You cheated. Own that.

If/when you apply to law schools, you're going to have to explain this in an addendum. Do not describe what you did as a citation mistake or some other such bullshit. You plagiarized someone else's work, got caught, learned your lesson, and won't do it again.

I agree -- from the way I remember undergrad, plagiarism was very serious, but a lot of it seemed to be about perceived intent. If they just got the impression that you were some kid that was in a rush and forgot to put in a few sets of quotation marks it was clear that it was just a formatting error and no one was going to file a complaint based on that. So I think it might have been a little bit more than OP would have us believe. And I think you're right, the best thing to do is just to own it. If he/she tries to sugar coat it and the school investigates and finds out that it was an egregious case of plagiarism they are in even worse trouble. But a few years away from undergrad, to simply say "you know, I was under a lot of pressure and I made a mistake, and I've learned, blah, blah, blah" can soften the blow.

inter-associate wrote:I rarely post on law school admission a forums given how long I have been out of law school. In this case, however, I would highly recommend that OP not rely on advice from TLS unless someone can cite relevant experience. As this is likely a serious issue in admissions, I doubt many people posting in this forum have the experience needed to provide you with proper advice.

OP, you need to start trying to find contacts that can help guide you through (to the extent possible) your plagiarism issue. Unfortunately, I don't have the experience to suggest what the best sources might be, but anybody who has been directly connected with admitting students to law school (perhaps, for example, someone from a school you will not be applying to) would be a good starting place. I would not rely on a random TLS poster because, despite the good intentions, they may not point you in the right direction and you may not get a do over after walking down that road.

This also sounds like solid advice, although I don't know how the OP would cultivate those contacts unless he/she already had them. Maybe call up a school and see if you can pose a "hypothetical" to an admissions counselor?

fitnessfreak1000 wrote:This post has got me so wound up.

while plagurism is the ultimate academic sin as a junior you should have been given some forgiveness in your mistake.

Your professor is clearly self important and you should be appealing the decision. I would plead mercy and show how you have learned from your mistakes.

I hope your law career isn't scuppered by this clown.

A junior in college should know how to cite properly. And it's not clear from the OP that this was simply a formatting error - just that the OP was cited for plagiarism. So characterizing the professor as self-important is leaping to conclusions.

OP, I would not go to the prof and ask her to "make amends" based on you wanting to go to law school - that will not go over well. (I'm assuming you either don't contest the prof's finding, or have gone through any appeal process.)

In terms of people to consult, this might be a situation where an admissions consultant like Spivey et al. could be helpful?

just wanted to say OP, i'm so glad that you're compassionate to yourself.

Mr/Ms Mouse you're more diplomatic than me (I'm from the Donald Trump school of blunt speech)

I still think the fact this was dealt with so severely is a travesty at junior level but what's done is done.

Good luck with your career kid. At least you learned your lesson.

Appeal the crap out of this. Though this is technically the definition of plagiarism, it's bullshit. If you have a citation on your paper and forgot to put quotes around the sentence(s) that are being plagiarized and your professor goes HAM on you for that, you appeal that.

Seriously, your professor is a biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiitch for this. Also, try consulting a lawyer.

A. Nony Mouse wrote:

fitnessfreak1000 wrote:This post has got me so wound up.

while plagurism is the ultimate academic sin as a junior you should have been given some forgiveness in your mistake.

Your professor is clearly self important and you should be appealing the decision. I would plead mercy and show how you have learned from your mistakes.

I hope your law career isn't scuppered by this clown.

A junior in college should know how to cite properly. And it's not clear from the OP that this was simply a formatting error - just that the OP was cited for plagiarism. So characterizing the professor as self-important is leaping to conclusions.

OP, I would not go to the prof and ask her to "make amends" based on you wanting to go to law school - that will not go over well. (I'm assuming you either don't contest the prof's finding, or have gone through any appeal process.)

In terms of people to consult, this might be a situation where an admissions consultant like Spivey et al. could be helpful?

I mean sure, he SHOULD know how to cite properly. But is the punishment for forgetting quotation marks (yet still having a citation on the paper) a ruined career? That seems incredibly harsh.

I know that I constantly miss citations in my first/second/third write-ups of papers. Then, when I re-read everything right before I hand it in, I read with an eye on making sure I've cited everything. But again, if I miss ONE, that spells a death sentence to my career?

The OP was actually pretty vague about what exactly their plagiarism entailed beyond it missing quotation marks. I find it interesting that people are assuming things like it was "missing ONE" citation, rather than more like

rpupkin wrote:If you didn't put quotes around a couple of sentences, that could be a formatting mistake or something. But no college junior gets busted for plagiarism for that kind of thing. I bet you copied paragraphs (or pages) of text.

Edit to add: Sorry, OP, to fight over what you did, rather than answer your questions.

I sit on a judicial board at my UG. The "I forgot to put quotes around those sentences" line is a ridiculously common excuse, one that everyone adjudicating your case hates to hear, by the way. If I was you I'd own up to it and make a case that you learned your lesson. Nobody should be blaming a professor for turning someone in. If OP's UG is like mine, students formally punished for plagerism have been caught multiple times and given a warning the first time. A formal punishment is not handed down lightly.

A. Nony Mouse wrote:The OP was actually pretty vague about what exactly their plagiarism entailed beyond it missing quotation marks. I find it interesting that people are assuming things like it was "missing ONE" citation, rather than more like

rpupkin wrote:If you didn't put quotes around a couple of sentences, that could be a formatting mistake or something. But no college junior gets busted for plagiarism for that kind of thing. I bet you copied paragraphs (or pages) of text.

Edit to add: Sorry, OP, to fight over what you did, rather than answer your questions.

OP: For the record, I did not intend to start a debate about what you actually did. I just sincerely believe it's in your interest to change the way you're characterizing your plagiarism. I wrote my post in the spirit of offering helpful (albeit blunt) advice. Good luck to you.

i'm sorry but how do you forget to put quotes around a quote

I'm sorry, but how do you forget to put quotes around a quote?

Easily.

In all seriousness, I agree with the others. You should probably think about owning it more directly, with less spin.

El Pollito wrote:i'm sorry but how do you forget to put quotes around a quote

You don't. I used to hear that one a lot, too, though. (To be fair, the OP never actually claimed to have forgotten - some other people have read that into what the OP said.)

It seems that most people who replied in this post don't have any experience in dealing with OP's scenario.
OP, this is obviously a terrible thing, and you should regret this. However, I don't think this is necessarily the end of the world. After all, you did this when you are 20 years old, and if you put a few years of experience between you and the incident - you should have a second chance.
After all, for all we know, a girl who graduated from Harvard and plagiarized in a teenage novel was caught as a junior/sophomore - she went to GULC, and landed a pretty decent internship at a big law. You should hire Anna Ivey or the like.

OP wrote: "It is a serious case of plagiarism." Missing some quotation marks doesn't seem to measure up to that standard, in my opinion. OP, is there a bit more to the incident that you are not sharing ?

I do know ,however, from personal experience that some instructors/teachers can be unreasonable. For example, I was given a lower grade as a prep school junior because I did not offer a citation for writing that "George Washington was the first President of the United States." (Damn, I just did it again.)