3.5, Pure Math, 179, Canadian Aboriginal Forum

[CalMc]

Hi everyone,

So I'm in pure math, with a year remaining in my undergrad at one of the better known Canadian schools (U of T or McGill, would prefer to not say which) and have a 3.5.

It's an incredibly rigorous program where almost all of us, in my track, go on to do PhDs with somewhere between a 3.0 to 3.7. I know that doesn't matter for law school, but just context that the GPA will not rise over the next year and I'm incredibly proud of where it stands (even though that's of no consequence when admission GPA averages are what they are). I took the LSAT, based off of a variation of the three month plan here (but over four months) and scored 179.

Some quick ECs:

• Spent a summer doing immunology research, which also brought me into the operating room for hundreds of hours
• Have worked with the (Canadian) Federal government on large grants for Aborigianl causes
• Spent a summer at a US investment bank in S&T (GS, JP Morgan, or Morgan Stanley)
• Played hockey competitively until Freshman year

No publications or big awards (not that the goal has been to achieve either). I'm also Canadian Aborigianl - non-status, don't want to be status for the sake of law school - which I'm still unsure of how that's viewed in American admissions. I've searched the forums and there are very few threads on it.

I know my GPA is very low, and probably can't be overly compensated for by a high LSAT, but am curious if anyone can flesh out my chances.

[Lawdood]

You'll definitely get in at some of the T14, maybe even Harvard.

[CalMc]

I've been reading many T-14 admissions threads - because they're fascinating and very enjoyable - and a big takeaway has been that nothing really mitigates a GPA that is (unfortunately) this low. I believe for most of the T-14 my GPA would be below the 10th percentile and on LSN I see very few, if any, folks who get in with a 3.4-3.6 irrespective of their LSAT score.

At this point I have nothing to lose by applying I guess, but is my GPA less of a factor than I believe it is?

EDIT: Thanks very much for taking the time to reply, by the way.

[Mack.Hambleton]

mylsn.info

[Traynor Brah]

do you have some really compelling reason to go to an american law school? even going to harvard law is probably on the less desirable end of your career prospects. I'd pretty strongly advise trying out another path first; law school will always be there.

but killer score dude, no school is out of the running for you.

[CalMc]

mylsn.info

Thanks. I looked, even though there's a very small sample size with my divergent scores, but part of my question is how I will be viewed as a non-status Canadian Aboriginal (perhaps a better question for each school directly, but thought someone might have some insight).

[CalMc]

do you have some really compelling reason to go to an american law school? even going to harvard law is probably on the less desirable end of your career prospects. I'd pretty strongly advise trying out another path first; law school will always be there.

but killer score dude, no school is out of the running for you.

Thanks very much. I've churned through a lot of prospective careers and have been fortunate/lucky enough to have had immersive experiences in many of these areas. I do have very specific reasons for going south of the border. Still a bit surprised no one is viewing my GPA as being a large, consequential impediment to getting into a T-14 school. Is my LSAT really enough with a final GPA that will likely be between 3.45-3.55 when I'm done my undergrad?

[Mack.Hambleton]

mylsn.info

Thanks. I looked, even though there's a very small sample size with my divergent scores, but part of my question is how I will be viewed as a non-status Canadian Aboriginal (perhaps a better question for each school directly, but thought someone might have some insight).

Probably won't affect anything

[CalMc]

mylsn.info

Thanks. I looked, even though there's a very small sample size with my divergent scores, but part of my question is how I will be viewed as a non-status Canadian Aboriginal (perhaps a better question for each school directly, but thought someone might have some insight).

Probably won't affect anything

Thanks for the quick reply.

[PoopNpants]

Have fun at Harvard dude

[Tiago Splitter]

do you have some really compelling reason to go to an american law school? even going to harvard law is probably on the less desirable end of your career prospects. I'd pretty strongly advise trying out another path first; law school will always be there.

but killer score dude, no school is out of the running for you.

Thanks very much. I've churned through a lot of prospective careers and have been fortunate/lucky enough to have had immersive experiences in many of these areas. I do have very specific reasons for going south of the border. Still a bit surprised no one is viewing my GPA as being a large, consequential impediment to getting into a T-14 school. Is my LSAT really enough with a final GPA that will likely be between 3.45-3.55 when I'm done my undergrad?

Not sure what you're looking at but people get into every non-HYS T14 with GPAs like yours. At this point you're basically guaranteed Columbia and NYU and very likely in at a few others. And Harvard is a real possibility if you get some solid LORs and put together a strong application.

Are you sure you can't take any easy classes to pad the GPA? It probably won't make much of a difference at this point, but every little bit helps.

[CalMc]

Have fun at Harvard dude

Thanks for the reply. Surprised at how confident people seem to be given that TLS is full of talk of people with 180s not getting into HYS (often because of their GPAs, I assume).

[CalMc]

do you have some really compelling reason to go to an american law school? even going to harvard law is probably on the less desirable end of your career prospects. I'd pretty strongly advise trying out another path first; law school will always be there.

but killer score dude, no school is out of the running for you.

Thanks very much. I've churned through a lot of prospective careers and have been fortunate/lucky enough to have had immersive experiences in many of these areas. I do have very specific reasons for going south of the border. Still a bit surprised no one is viewing my GPA as being a large, consequential impediment to getting into a T-14 school. Is my LSAT really enough with a final GPA that will likely be between 3.45-3.55 when I'm done my undergrad?

Not sure what you're looking at but people get into every non-HYS T14 with GPAs like yours. At this point you're basically guaranteed Columbia and NYU and very likely in at a few others. And Harvard is a real possibility if you get some solid LORs and put together a strong application.

Are you sure you can't take any easy classes to pad the GPA? It probably won't make much of a difference at this point, but every little bit helps.

If I had to bet I'd say my GPA will sink lower, not higher. I'm doing this all accelerated - so there will be no electives, five courses a term going towards pure math - as I started off in a life science degree back when I wanted to be a doctor.

Is there a reason why people keep talking about Harvard, rather than Yale and Stanford? Are they less inclined to take someone with this low of a GPA, irrespective of LSAT, etc.?

[Tiago Splitter]

yeah Harvard has a much bigger class so they can't be as picky. In order to maintain their 173 LSAT median Harvard needs to take a few relatively low GPAs. Stanford and Yale are worth applications but are much less likely.

[PoopNpants]

Have fun at Harvard dude

Thanks for the reply. Surprised at how confident people seem to be given that TLS is full of talk of people with 180s not getting into HYS (often because of their GPAs, I assume).

With a great application and that LSAT score I think you stand a good chance at getting H. Even though your not a "URM" and won't get said boost, be sure to write a diversity statement about being an aboriginal. I used to spend my summers up in Canada with relatives and I'd liken their situation to native Americans in our country to some extent. I'd apply to the entire T6 and some T14s that interest you as well.

[Ron Howard]

do you have some really compelling reason to go to an american law school? even going to harvard law is probably on the less desirable end of your career prospects. I'd pretty strongly advise trying out another path first; law school will always be there.

but killer score dude, no school is out of the running for you.

Thanks very much. I've churned through a lot of prospective careers and have been fortunate/lucky enough to have had immersive experiences in many of these areas. I do have very specific reasons for going south of the border. Still a bit surprised no one is viewing my GPA as being a large, consequential impediment to getting into a T-14 school. Is my LSAT really enough with a final GPA that will likely be between 3.45-3.55 when I'm done my undergrad?

Not sure what you're looking at but people get into every non-HYS T14 with GPAs like yours. At this point you're basically guaranteed Columbia and NYU and very likely in at a few others. And Harvard is a real possibility if you get some solid LORs and put together a strong application.

Are you sure you can't take any easy classes to pad the GPA? It probably won't make much of a difference at this point, but every little bit helps.

If I had to bet I'd say my GPA will sink lower, not higher. I'm doing this all accelerated - so there will be no electives, five courses a term going towards pure math - as I started off in a life science degree back when I wanted to be a doctor.

Is there a reason why people keep talking about Harvard, rather than Yale and Stanford? Are they less inclined to take someone with this low of a GPA, irrespective of LSAT, etc.?

Yale and Stanford are extremely unpredictable, and small differences in initial conditions can yield widely different outcomes. They also care more about GPA.

[baal hadad]

Do finance

[CalMc]

Do finance

Am hoping to do move onto something where I'll (slightly?) hate my life less than during my time as a trader.

Was very hopeful it'd work out, and had a fantastic opportunity, but is certainly not something I'm inclined towards anymore.

[CalMc]

Yale and Stanford are extremely unpredictable, and small differences in initial conditions can yield widely different outcomes. They also care more about GPA.

Thanks for clarifying.

[CalMc]

yeah Harvard has a much bigger class so they can't be as picky. In order to maintain their 173 LSAT median Harvard needs to take a few relatively low GPAs. Stanford and Yale are worth applications but are much less likely.

Thanks for clarifying. Too bad as Yale would, like for many I'm sure, be the dream choice. Wasn't overly bullish on any T6 working out period, though.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Depending on your cultural connections to your aboriginal community, I suspect that would provide at least some boost.

[stego]

Confused about why OP doesn't qualify as URM. I don't know much about it but assume being a non-status Indian in Canadian is similar to being a Native American who isn't enrolled in a federally recognized tribe in the US.

Would US law schools really give a NA boost to members of federally recognized tribes in the US but not to members of First Nations tribes in Canada?

[Mack.Hambleton]

Confused about why OP doesn't qualify as URM. I don't know much about it but assume being a non-status Indian in Canadian is similar to being a Native American who isn't enrolled in a federally recognized tribe in the US.

Would US law schools really give a NA boost to members of federally recognized tribes in the US but not to members of First Nations tribes in Canada?

URM and international are two separate categories.

[A. Nony Mouse]

This has been debated quite a bit on this forum; there is some anecdotal evidence that foreign students have received some URM boost. I don't think the evidence is definitive either way.

[Iwanttolawschool]

mylsn.info

Thanks. I looked, even though there's a very small sample size with my divergent scores, but part of my question is how I will be viewed as a non-status Canadian Aboriginal (perhaps a better question for each school directly, but thought someone might have some insight).

Probably won't affect anything

Thanks for the quick reply.

Canadian Aboriginal is considered an URM. It will be a boost. As long as you put together a good PS and don't come across as a prick, you got at least one of HYS