Top Law Schools

Thanks!

a)Ones that get you the job you want at an appropriate cost
b)Doubt it. It's an ok soft but you probably won't outperform your numbers
c)Nope

LS is different from practice so thats something u should look into

Any chance youre open to identity swapping

Could have you in law school by august

You should apply to all of the T-14 schools. My guess it that you'll get into most of them and almost definitely into Columbia. I wouldn't be surprised if you get into one of Harvard, Yale, or Stanford as well. Having worked for McKinsey and having an MBA from Columbia (regardless of GPA) puts you incredibly far ahead of the pack. I can almost guarantee you that, barring a steep recession, you'll also get a job at a top, top corporate law firm after your graduation as well (if that's what you want). I'm fairly certain mine would hire you.

I'm not a big blog fan, but I came across this site and saw people giving advice that was almost laughably wrong. I felt compelled to create a profile. I think a lot of it just has to do with people in college/1L's writing posts, and they don't have a ton of experience to know how things really work. For instance, here, I strongly, strongly disagree that having an MBA from Columbia is an "okay soft" (no disrespect to the person who said it). McKinsey is also one of the most reputable company in the world. Every admissions officer knows that.

I would recommend trying to tack on your J.D. right now at CLS (if McKinsey would allow it), even if you have to pay for it yourself. Just get all your education out of the way now.

Lawyerrr wrote:You should apply to all of the T-14 schools. My guess it that you'll get into most of them and almost definitely into Columbia. I wouldn't be surprised if you get into one of Harvard, Yale, or Stanford as well. Having worked for McKinsey and having an MBA from Columbia (regardless of GPA) puts you incredibly far ahead of the pack. I can almost guarantee you that, barring a steep recession, you'll also get a job at a top, top corporate law firm after your graduation as well (if that's what you want). I'm fairly certain mine would hire you.

I'm not a big blog fan, but I came across this site and saw people giving advice that was almost laughably wrong. I felt compelled to create a profile. I think a lot of it just has to do with people in college/1L's writing posts, and they don't have a ton of experience to know how things really work. For instance, here, I strongly, strongly disagree that having an MBA from Columbia is an "okay soft" (no disrespect to the person who said it). McKinsey is also one of the most reputable company in the world. Every admissions officer knows that.

I would recommend trying to tack on your J.D. right now at CLS (if McKinsey would allow it), even if you have to pay for it yourself. Just get all your education out of the way now.

Just no. GPA and LSAT are still the most important 98%+ factors LS consider

mvp99 wrote:

Lawyerrr wrote:You should apply to all of the T-14 schools. My guess it that you'll get into most of them and almost definitely into Columbia. I wouldn't be surprised if you get into one of Harvard, Yale, or Stanford as well. Having worked for McKinsey and having an MBA from Columbia (regardless of GPA) puts you incredibly far ahead of the pack. I can almost guarantee you that, barring a steep recession, you'll also get a job at a top, top corporate law firm after your graduation as well (if that's what you want). I'm fairly certain mine would hire you.

I'm not a big blog fan, but I came across this site and saw people giving advice that was almost laughably wrong. I felt compelled to create a profile. I think a lot of it just has to do with people in college/1L's writing posts, and they don't have a ton of experience to know how things really work. For instance, here, I strongly, strongly disagree that having an MBA from Columbia is an "okay soft" (no disrespect to the person who said it). McKinsey is also one of the most reputable company in the world. Every admissions officer knows that.

I would recommend trying to tack on your J.D. right now at CLS (if McKinsey would allow it), even if you have to pay for it yourself. Just get all your education out of the way now.

Just no. GPA and LSAT are still the most important 98%+ factors LS consider

I wouldn't go to law school. If you MUST, you certainly need to raise your LSAT over 170 for schools worth attending.

OP, assuming you're not a flame, you ought to apply some honest and dispassionate analysis into your decision whether you should go to law school. Given your age and Ivy League pedigree, there are so many better things you can do with your life than attending law school for three years, accumulating debt, and then finally embarking on a brand new career as a lawyer.

Why do you want to be a lawyer so bad? Unless your fantasy is to become the first Asian American Supreme Court justice or US Attorney General, you'll be giving up tremendous opportunity for something most people do simply because they don't have any better alternatives. You said you were "disinterested" in banking and other business fields, so what makes you think being a lawyer would be your calling? The opportunity costs are simply far too great than whatever marginal satisfaction you would get from being a lawyer, if that.

Lawyerrr wrote:You should apply to all of the T-14 schools. My guess it that you'll get into most of them and almost definitely into Columbia. I wouldn't be surprised if you get into one of Harvard, Yale, or Stanford as well. Having worked for McKinsey and having an MBA from Columbia (regardless of GPA) puts you incredibly far ahead of the pack. I can almost guarantee you that, barring a steep recession, you'll also get a job at a top, top corporate law firm after your graduation as well (if that's what you want). I'm fairly certain mine would hire you.

I'm not a big blog fan, but I came across this site and saw people giving advice that was almost laughably wrong. I felt compelled to create a profile. I think a lot of it just has to do with people in college/1L's writing posts, and they don't have a ton of experience to know how things really work. For instance, here, I strongly, strongly disagree that having an MBA from Columbia is an "okay soft" (no disrespect to the person who said it). McKinsey is also one of the most reputable company in the world. Every admissions officer knows that.

I would recommend trying to tack on your J.D. right now at CLS (if McKinsey would allow it), even if you have to pay for it yourself. Just get all your education out of the way now.

176

As soon as I saw the word "blog" I knew this post would be a good one

OP- keep in mind that Layerrr's post was a joke post. It's funny, but don't take it seriously

qiuyidio wrote: MBA: Columbia, '15, 3.9 GPA
GMAT (2011): 770

Northwestern would love that profile. PM'd you about the two-year accelerated program.

MVP/Big Zuck- Genuinely curious why you guys/girls say think otherwise? Were you in a similar position and didn't get into top schools? The conversations I've had with the admissions officers at the law school I went to makes me think they'd love this guy. I know schools care about LSAT/GPA because of the rankings, but he'd be one of the people in the bottom 25% whose stats no one sees (i.e., they only show 25-75 percentiles). Plus, he'd be so easily employable. Like a 99% change he'd get a job as a 1L summer associate. Don't you think?

Lawyerrr wrote:MVP/Big Zuck- Genuinely curious why you guys/girls say think otherwise? Were you in a similar position and didn't get into top schools? The conversations I've had with the admissions officers at the law school I went to makes me think they'd love this guy. I know schools care about LSAT/GPA because of the rankings, but he'd be one of the people in the bottom 25% whose stats no one sees (i.e., they only show 25-75 percentiles). Plus, he'd be so easily employable. Like a 99% change he'd get a job as a 1L summer associate. Don't you think?

Lol

No

Dude, just stop. You're killing the joke

First we look at data. And then we look at reality. I can share anecdotal reasons why he won't get into a majority of the T14 but the data solidly backs that up. You said he would get into a majority (including Columbia) with a 3.1/165. But even with a 3.1/180 he wouldn't get into a majority. That's simply not how the law school application process works.

And work experience alone wouldn't propel him into an automatic 1L SA

Come on man

BigZuck wrote:

Lawyerrr wrote:MVP/Big Zuck- Genuinely curious why you guys/girls say think otherwise? Were you in a similar position and didn't get into top schools? The conversations I've had with the admissions officers at the law school I went to makes me think they'd love this guy. I know schools care about LSAT/GPA because of the rankings, but he'd be one of the people in the bottom 25% whose stats no one sees (i.e., they only show 25-75 percentiles). Plus, he'd be so easily employable. Like a 99% change he'd get a job as a 1L summer associate. Don't you think?

Lol

No

Dude, just stop. You're killing the joke

First we look at data. And then we look at reality. I can share anecdotal reasons why he won't get into a majority of the T14 but the data solidly backs that up. You said he would get into a majority (including Columbia) with a 3.1/165. But even with a 3.1/180 he wouldn't get into a majority. That's simply not how the law school application process works.

And work experience alone wouldn't propel him into an automatic 1L SA

Come on man

I can see where you're coming from. I admit I'm not an admissions officer, so I can't say with certainty that he'll get in. My only real resource is that I befriended the admissions officers while I was in school. So perhaps you're right and my conversations with them aren't representative of every top school.

As far as 1L SA, what makes you say that? Are you a part of the recruiting process at a firm? I'm part of the recruiting process at my firm. Assuming he's fairly normal and his grades aren't B-'s, we would hire him in a second for a 1L SA in the corporate group. Perhaps your firm differs.

Not trying to be combative . . . just wondering where you're coming from.

I'm coming from what you're saying doesn't align with reality

Lots of people on this site look for 1L SAs and come up short, next December you might want to make an anonymous post and say your specific firm so that medianish candidates with good work experience can know where they can get a 100% guaranteed offer. I'm totally serious, that would really help people out.

Lawyerrr wrote:

BigZuck wrote:

Lawyerrr wrote:MVP/Big Zuck- Genuinely curious why you guys/girls say think otherwise? Were you in a similar position and didn't get into top schools? The conversations I've had with the admissions officers at the law school I went to makes me think they'd love this guy. I know schools care about LSAT/GPA because of the rankings, but he'd be one of the people in the bottom 25% whose stats no one sees (i.e., they only show 25-75 percentiles). Plus, he'd be so easily employable. Like a 99% change he'd get a job as a 1L summer associate. Don't you think?

Lol

No

Dude, just stop. You're killing the joke

First we look at data. And then we look at reality. I can share anecdotal reasons why he won't get into a majority of the T14 but the data solidly backs that up. You said he would get into a majority (including Columbia) with a 3.1/165. But even with a 3.1/180 he wouldn't get into a majority. That's simply not how the law school application process works.

And work experience alone wouldn't propel him into an automatic 1L SA

Come on man

I can see where you're coming from. I admit I'm not an admissions officer, so I can't say with certainty that he'll get in. My only real resource is that I befriended the admissions officers while I was in school. So perhaps you're right and my conversations with them aren't representative of every top school.

As far as 1L SA, what makes you say that? Are you a part of the recruiting process at a firm? I'm part of the recruiting process at my firm. Assuming he's fairly normal and his grades aren't B-'s, we would hire him in a second for a 1L SA in the corporate group. Perhaps your firm differs.

Not trying to be combative . . . just wondering where you're coming from.

Since we're playing this credential game what firm do you work at? A little background here would be helpful

Harvard doesn't accept white people with a 3.1. Hell it usually doesn't accept black people with a 3.1. An MBA isn't going to make up for that.

OP schools worth attending tend not to give significant scholarships to people with your undergrad GPA. If you bump up your LSAT you'll have no problem getting into a top school and getting a big firm job, but the value proposition just isn't there when it's going to cost you 200k+ and huge opportunity costs.

You may be suffering from what I call the 'smart guy' careerist syndrome i.e. an individual who finds himself jaded and disinterested in a job no matter how well paid/high-flung/prestigious because he's not mentally stimulated enough. This individual bounces back and forth between top academic institutions and top firms across the private sector until the day he retires.

To be frank, it doesn't get much better.

I peg you as in at one of HYS with a lock on all CCN.

Where in hell is all this optimism coming from

Op is an asian american male (relevant because overrepresented) with a 3.1/165

Hys? Lock at ccn??? Did I miss the part where he won a Nobel peace prize

Clemenceau wrote:Where in hell is all this optimism coming from

Op is an asian american male (relevant because overrepresented) with a 3.1/165

Hys? Lock at ccn??? Did I miss the part where he won a Nobel peace prize

yeah none of this is guaranteed but tbf he can ED Penn or NYU and sleepwalk his way into a biglaw job. But why pay so much for that when you can get similar pay now? Honestly makes a lot more sense if he had a change of heart and wanted to be a public defender or something

Clemenceau wrote:Where in hell is all this optimism coming from

Op is an asian american male (relevant because overrepresented) with a 3.1/165

Hys? Lock at ccn??? Did I miss the part where he won a Nobel peace prize

He has a proven track record of business success, probably has existing client relationships and an M7 MBA. He worked at McKinsey - the panty-dropper of F500 execs everywhere. He's also 7 years removed from undergrad and that 3.1. Granted he's Asian-American, but otherwise than his ORM status he oozes success. I'm also assuming he lands the 170, like he says in the original post. I'm not an adcom, obviously my word is not law.

Edit: OP, some schools are taking the GMAT in place of the LSAT these days. With a 770, I suggest you look into it.

Don't do it.

mudiverse wrote:

Clemenceau wrote:Where in hell is all this optimism coming from

Op is an asian american male (relevant because overrepresented) with a 3.1/165

Hys? Lock at ccn??? Did I miss the part where he won a Nobel peace prize

He has a proven track record of business success, probably has existing client relationships and an M7 MBA. He worked at McKinsey - the panty-dropper of F500 execs everywhere. He's also 7 years removed from undergrad and that 3.1. Granted he's Asian-American, but otherwise than his ORM status he oozes success. I'm also assuming he lands the 170, like he says in the original post. I'm not an adcom, obviously my word is not law.

Edit: OP, some schools are taking the GMAT in place of the LSAT these days. With a 770, I suggest you look into it.

Is this a joke

Even if he gets a 170+ which is completely hypothetical right now, his best option would probably be lower T14 at sticker (something like NW)

not a good decision, don't go OP

BigZuck wrote:I'm coming from what you're saying doesn't align with reality

Lots of people on this site look for 1L SAs and come up short, next December you might want to make an anonymous post and say your specific firm so that medianish candidates with good work experience can know where they can get a 100% guaranteed offer. I'm totally serious, that would really help people out.

Haha. Posting an ad on this site would definitely be cheaper than the typical drink/dinner parties we usually throw for 1L's, I'll give you that!

Luckiest fortuitous events in the last 100 years:

1. In 1940ish my grandpa was at his European home with his wife when the radio alert went off for all police officers to report to the station for an emergency. Grandpa grabbed his hat and pipe and headed out the door. On his way walking to the station, a random stranger saw his police uniform and told him that the Nazis had just taken the police station and was rounding everyone up to do who knows what with them. My grandpa went back home, packed his things, and went with his wife to hideout for a few months as the Nazis would surely be looking for him on a roll call.

2.

qiuyidio wrote:Hi guys,

I spent most of my career after undergrad at a top strategy consulting firm (McKinsey and Co). However, my dream has always been to go to law school. I would have done so after undergrad (was accepted into Fordham) but family issues forced me to find a job instead. I did very well, and am currently sponsored at Columbia Business School.

3. Lottery winner

I don't get the optimism here. The work experience might help a little. They could be worth a couple LSAT points. But this guy has a bad gpa and an lsat well below median for the schools we are talking about. And a 1L SA??? That's just crazy. Its not like this guy is the first person to leave McKinsey for law school. He isn't that special.

Also. A 3.9 at Columbia is downright terrible (they have a unique grading system - you need a 5.5 just to graduate). The recent bad grades at Columbia might be a cause for concern.