Top Law Schools

3.45 GPA Double major
159 September
164 December
non-urm
(Should I write an addendum for the difference?)

Super Softs:
Pro athlete, former All American, various NCAA awards/records.
Played/play pro in a team sport. There was an old thread with people discussing. I don't really care how you may view the sport I may play (not a big 3 sport), but a legit sport. Not competitive team ping pong or that kind of thing (not that I'm hating on ping pong at all, very fun to watch).

Softs:
Part time paralegal work
Masters degree
Other work experience in regards to my sport.

Retake not happening this cycle due to sport.

t-14, with most interest in GULC, Duke, Cornell, Northwestern, UVA
Vandy,
GW,
W&M,
Notre Dame,
BU,
BC.

I have ties to DC and the south.
Would prefer GULC first.

Any prayers for t-14? Should I just hope waitlist? Or do you think I have a shot at a few of those in the t-14? Outside of t-14, what does the situation look like?

EDIT: I know, go to mylsn. Already did. I am asking for the thought with my unique super softs. In this case they are super as far as my athletic career has been. Why law? Career coming to a close sooner rather than later as my knees are leaving competitive sport behind, so it's time for school again. Law specifically for personal reasons.

I doubt anyone is going to be able to give you an accurate prediction. While you will probably overperform your numbers, I don't know if anyone here is going to be able to tell you by how much.

Mullens wrote:I doubt anyone is going to be able to give you an accurate prediction. While you will probably overperform your numbers, I don't know if anyone here is going to be able to tell you by how much.

Thanks. I know it's not something anyone can accurately predict, but I am just looking for some hope I guess hahah.

Considering you're a pro athlete, can you afford to take a few months once your current career has ended and focus on the retake after retirement? It'll pay dividends on the other end, and considering you're likely still young (unless your pro sport is curling, bowling, golf, etc.), it won't affect your next career step.

I don't presume to know your situation, but almost every "can't retake, must apply this cycle" are largely flame. Think long and hard about how important T14 acceptance and reasonable cost of attendance, and if you'd rather pick law school this year over T14 and possible scholarships next year, go ahead and make your decision based on that.

Ramius wrote:Considering you're a pro athlete, can you afford to take a few months once your current career has ended and focus on the retake after retirement? It'll pay dividends on the other end, and considering you're likely still young (unless your pro sport is curling, bowling, golf, etc.), it won't affect your next career step.

I don't presume to know your situation, but almost every "can't retake, must apply this cycle" are largely flame. Think long and hard about how important T14 acceptance and reasonable cost of attendance, and if you'd rather pick law school this year over T14 and possible scholarships next year, go ahead and make your decision based on that.

Thanks for your advice about retake. I truly can't this cycle with sport obligations in Feb. There are other circumstances (family, etc) which would dictate my entering school sooner rather than later. While I agree with your advice that retaking would be beneficial, I truly might not be able to attend law school unless I start this coming year for personal obligations. That may change, so I am considering worst case scenario. These numbers plus given my softs, what reasonably might happen for this cycle?

i know that a surprising percentage of pro athletes end up broke and in debt but this isn't how i imagined it happening

fats provolone wrote:i know that a surprising percentage of pro athletes end up broke and in debt but this isn't how i imagined it happening

You are quite right and it is a shame what happens. But at least I didn't waste it on too many Ferraris?

I have a hard time believing any T14 will reach for those numbers unless you carry more notoriety for your sport than I am giving you credit for. You might get waitlists, which are essentially sweatpants in a strip club. All you can really do is apply and see what happens because you're likely not famous enough to warrant a, "Hey, look who goes to our law school!" admit, leaving you like most other applicants with prior careers.

Without knowing more about your personal notoriety, you can probably predict based on mylsn and be more accurate than our tea leaf reading.

Ramius wrote:I have a hard time believing any T14 will reach for those numbers unless you carry more notoriety for your sport than I am giving you credit for. You might get waitlists, which are essentially sweatpants in a strip club. All you can really do is apply and see what happens because you're likely not famous enough to warrant a, "Hey, look who goes to our law school!" admit, leaving you like most other applicants with prior careers.

Without knowing more about your personal notoriety, you can probably predict based on mylsn and be more accurate than our tea leaf reading.

Thanks. My worry with myLSN is that it is not a full sample size. Also, there are always exceptions to the rule. With those specific numbers, 1 person got into Yale. It becomes a question if my softs are on par with someone like that? (Not saying Yale specifically, but most of the t14 have at least 1 acceptance with those exact numbers that are non-urm). So the question is speculating how strong my softs would be in comparison to someone like this?

bob311 wrote:

Ramius wrote:I have a hard time believing any T14 will reach for those numbers unless you carry more notoriety for your sport than I am giving you credit for. You might get waitlists, which are essentially sweatpants in a strip club. All you can really do is apply and see what happens because you're likely not famous enough to warrant a, "Hey, look who goes to our law school!" admit, leaving you like most other applicants with prior careers.

Without knowing more about your personal notoriety, you can probably predict based on mylsn and be more accurate than our tea leaf reading.

Thanks. My worry with myLSN is that it is not a full sample size. Also, there are always exceptions to the rule. With those specific numbers, 1 person got into Yale. It becomes a question if my softs are on par with someone like that? (Not saying Yale specifically, but most of the t14 have at least 1 acceptance with those exact numbers that are non-urm). So the question is speculating how strong my softs would be in comparison to someone like this?

Maybe try asking the Dean Meeker guy in that thread? He would actually know a lot better than we would.

Also...is it MLS or NHL?

bob311 wrote:

Ramius wrote:I have a hard time believing any T14 will reach for those numbers unless you carry more notoriety for your sport than I am giving you credit for. You might get waitlists, which are essentially sweatpants in a strip club. All you can really do is apply and see what happens because you're likely not famous enough to warrant a, "Hey, look who goes to our law school!" admit, leaving you like most other applicants with prior careers.

Without knowing more about your personal notoriety, you can probably predict based on mylsn and be more accurate than our tea leaf reading.

Thanks. My worry with myLSN is that it is not a full sample size. Also, there are always exceptions to the rule. With those specific numbers, 1 person got into Yale. It becomes a question if my softs are on par with someone like that? (Not saying Yale specifically, but most of the t14 have at least 1 acceptance with those exact numbers that are non-urm). So the question is speculating how strong my softs would be in comparison to someone like this?

Does it really matter what we say? People could encourage you and say that professional athletics will be a game changer, but if you get shut out, you'll still be shut out.

No one can predict soft performance. All you can do is create a completely air tight application and make the ADCOM want you. This requires either retaking, or combining a mixture of prayer and massive refinement of the subjective parts of your app (PS, DS, etc.)

Do we have any TLS history of someone with a professional sports background? I'm curious as to how this plays out, mostly because I'm not so sure if being a professional athlete will allow you to seriously outperform your numbers. I think it will help if you're on the bubble/edge, but I don't think it's going to get you into a school you would not have had at least a chance of getting into. I think it's a super unique soft, but as an ad comm I don't think I'd value it more than something like military service/Peace Corps. I hope I'm wrong, because you seem like a nice guy. But I'm skeptical.

Part of my skepticism derives from the fact that I have a pessimistic view of the admissions process. I don't think a school is going to do something without a tangible benefit for them. I don't see how letting in an athlete, unless you are super famous, really does anything for them. Ir doesn't help them with their USNWR ranking, it doesn't in any way improve their diversity, it doesn't help them attract a large donation. At most, it gets them a story on ATL and is a nice thing to include in their brochure.

Again, I really hope I'm wrong. I wish you the best of luck. To reiterate my question, TLS: have we had a pro athlete in the past we can base some advice on?

bob311 wrote:
Thanks. My worry with myLSN is that it is not a full sample size. Also, there are always exceptions to the rule. With those specific numbers, 1 person got into Yale. It becomes a question if my softs are on par with someone like that? (Not saying Yale specifically, but most of the t14 have at least 1 acceptance with those exact numbers that are non-urm). So the question is speculating how strong my softs would be in comparison to someone like this?

I can't help but think that these outliers are not people with super good softs, but rather someone who has a parent who is an important alum or someone who is connected to a big money donor.

emkay625 wrote:Do we have any TLS history of someone with a professional sports background? I'm curious as to how this plays out, mostly because I'm not so sure if being a professional athlete will allow you to seriously outperform your numbers. I think it will help if you're on the bubble/edge, but I don't think it's going to get you into a school you would not have had at least a chance of getting into. I think it's a super unique soft, but as an ad comm I don't think I'd value it more than something like military service/Peace Corps. I hope I'm wrong, because you seem like a nice guy. But I'm skeptical.

Part of my skepticism derives from the fact that I have a pessimistic view of the admissions process. I don't think a school is going to do something without a tangible benefit for them. I don't see how letting in an athlete, unless you are super famous, really does anything for them. Ir doesn't help them with their USNWR ranking, it doesn't in any way improve their diversity, it doesn't help them attract a large donation. At most, it gets them a story on ATL and is a nice thing to include in their brochure.

Again, I really hope I'm wrong. I wish you the best of luck. To reiterate my question, TLS: have we had a pro athlete in the past we can base some advice on?

Thanks for the nice words. I'm not here to gloat or anything like that. Just looking for information. The more you know, the more prepared you can be. For example, most people say especially in sports to ignore the "haters". But a lot of times, they can pick up an area of deficiency that you can improve on even if the source isn't reliable. That's the goal here because I know no one here can be exactly predictive or informative, but more information can never hurt (unless you are a golfer I hear. Then it's bad news apparently).

emkay625 wrote:

bob311 wrote:

I can't help but think that these outliers are not people with super good softs, but rather someone who has a parent who is an important alum or someone who is connected to a big money donor.

Good point. Thank you.

bob311 wrote: I don't really care how you may view the sport I may play (not a big 3 sport), but a legit sport.

Doubt.jpg

If we're not talking NHL/MLS I seriously doubt OP would out perform their numbers

ETA: OPs profile says liberal arts college, so not even a D1 athlete??

Ok I figured it out because OP made this same two months ago lol. The sport is lacrosse. White people

In light of that, I don't think that's going to make OP out perform his numbers.

james.bungles wrote:Ok I figured it out because OP made this same two months ago lol. The sport is lacrosse. White people

In light of that, I don't think that's going to make OP out perform his numbers.

TIL lacrosse is a professional sport

james.bungles wrote:Ok I figured it out because OP made this same two months ago lol. The sport is lacrosse. White people

In light of that, I don't think that's going to make OP out perform his numbers.

It may or may not be. There are a lot of great hockey players from liberal arts schools. Colorado college, union college, RIT, etc produce nhl kids every year. Also the occasional football player. So don't jump to conclusions either way.

If GULC is your top choice and $$$ isn't a concern, I would apply ED. I think you have a chance at ED. IMO, there's no point speculating how favorably adcomms will look at your Lacrosse background.

tbh NHL probably isn't even that much of a boost unless you're well-known.

If you get accepted someplace that you would consider going, you could opt for a June retake to try to pull in extra $$. It might also help with late waitlist activity.

haus wrote:If you get accepted someplace that you would consider going, you could opt for a June retake to try to pull in extra $$. It might also help with late waitlist activity.

Thank you for the thought. So a June retake could help in case of a waitlist or two?

bob311 wrote:

haus wrote:If you get accepted someplace that you would consider going, you could opt for a June retake to try to pull in extra $$. It might also help with late waitlist activity.

Thank you for the thought. So a June retake could help in case of a waitlist or two?

I know that schools like to have interesting candidates, when it is all said and done, it is hard to overcome the numbers.

I have a few interestings softs (US Marine, Masters, lots of quality work experience) and several schools which I did not make the numbers for had me on their waitlist, but none of the waitlist panned out for me.

In retrospect, I think that having taken a third swing at the exam could not have hurt, and may well have helped (fortunately I am happy with the scholorship, and the somewhat unusual program that I ended up with, but that is a story for another day).

I would recommend looking at the Spivey thread

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=197451

Leading up to last June's exam there was a lot of discussion regarding using the June exam for that cycle. Also do not hesitate to ask questions in that thread as they have been very helpful.

Good Luck,

Would EDing at any of the top 14 help potentially? I saw the law school numbers thing with the regression analysis. Would it be worth it to try with it being a reach? If money wasn't an issue of course.