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Hey guys,

Long time lurker, first time poster. I'm having trouble justifying my decision to retake to my family and friends.

Career Goals: BigFed/PI
Debt Averse: Very (I'd love a Hamilton)
Age: KJD

GPA: 3.85-3.87 (in flux right now)
Softs: Above average but not extraordinary (7/10)

LSAT: 173 (first take). I've PT'ed in the 175-176 range, I'm convinced that retaking will increase my chances at $$$ at CCN. Is this TCR?

As of right now, what are my chances? I've seen this: but there aren't enough results to have any degree of predictive power (I'd argue).

[img]http://myLSN.info/n3183c_1-14.jpg

packer_22 wrote:Hey guys,

Long time lurker, first time poster. I'm having trouble justifying my decision to retake to my family and friends.

Career Goals: BigFed/PI
Debt Averse: Very (I'd love a Hamilton)
Age: KJD

GPA: 3.85-3.87 (in flux right now)
Softs: Above average but not extraordinary (7/10)

LSAT: 173 (first take). I've PT'ed in the 175-176 range, I'm convinced that retaking will increase my chances at $$$ at CCN. Is this TCR?

As of right now, what are my chances? I've seen this: but there aren't enough results to have any degree of predictive power (I'd argue).

[img]http://myLSN.info/n3183c_1-14.jpg

Do you think you really underperformed on the test? If so, I'm sure a 176+ would improve your chances. I think 172/173 are the worst scores to sit on because of the level of uncertainty for a retake.

*

packer_22 wrote: I'm having trouble justifying my decision to retake to my family and friends.

Why do you need to justify yourself to them? Are you going to be living at home w/o a job if you retake? Or are they going to be paying for the test? Your friends even have less say in the matter imo, they won't live with the consequences.

If you think you can improve in the September LSAT then retake. Heck if that doesn't pan your up for it, retake in December too. It's not like you are siting out a cycle and reapplying.

Thanks for the quick replies, all.

I guess I should give more information for better feedback, haha.

While I'd love $$$ to CCN, I'll take the best deal (Moredcai, Dillard, Darrow, etc) or just whichever T14 gives me the most money.

Am I correct in assuming Y/S are unlikely tossups, H is 50/50 and that I'll (possibly) get $/$$/$$$ as I move down the "tiers" from CCN/MVPB/NCDG? (insofar as they exist?)

My friends and family were happy for me that I got a 173, so they think I'm crazy/arrogant/vain for retaking. I just want an iron-clad reason to tell them ("I'm retaking for more scholarship money").

I definitely think I'll improve, but if I don't, (probably between 170-172, I decrease), that can't hurt, right? I guess marginally at YHS?

And to answer the last question, I'm finishing up my last year of undergrad, so I won't be living at home.

packer_22 wrote: While I'd love $$$ to CCN, I'll take the best deal (Moredcai, Dillard, Darrow, etc) or just whichever T14 gives me the most money.

Am I correct in assuming Y/S are unlikely tossups, H is 50/50 and that I'll (possibly) get $/$$/$$$ as I move down the "tiers" from CCN/MVPB/NCDG? (insofar as they exist?)

This is correct.

packer_22 wrote: My friends and family were happy for me that I got a 173, so they think I'm crazy/arrogant/vain for retaking. I just want an iron-clad reason to tell them ("I'm retaking for more scholarship money").

"I'm retaking for more scholarship money" should be good enough of a reason. If they roll their eyes at you, you can try to explain to them how expensive law school is. Minimizing debt now will allow you to sleep better at night and the less likely you will have to rely on big law or LRAP for years after law school. If they still think you're crazy/arrogant/vain, then fck it, you do you.

packer_22 wrote:I definitely think I'll improve, but if I don't, (probably between 170-172, I decrease), that can't hurt, right? I guess marginally at YHS?

And to answer the last question, I'm finishing up my last year of undergrad, so I won't be living at home.

As long as you don't decrease by something like 5+ pts on a retake I don't even think you'll need to explain yourself. Schools only care about the highest score tbh. It might hurt you ever a teeny bit at HYS but if you are looking to minimize debt, then HYS is automatically out by your debt standards since they only give need based aid.

I just wanted to update this for those who might have been interested/future viewers!

YHS- rejected, waitlisted, waitlisted

CCN- Butler, 45k, 105k (Taking the Butler)

MVP- 120k, Dillard, waitlisted

DCG- Mordecai, withdrew, withdrew

So, 8 acceptances, 3 waitlists and 1 rejection.

Overall, a good cycle but I can't help but feel that I would have gotten HS with W/E. However, once I'm paying off debt, I may be happy I wasn't tempted!

packer_22 wrote:I just wanted to update this for those who might have been interested/future viewers!

YHS- rejected, waitlisted, waitlisted

CCN- Butler, 45k, 105k (Taking the Butler)

MVP- 120k, Dillard, waitlisted

DCG- Mordecai, withdrew, withdrew

So, 8 acceptances, 3 waitlists and 1 rejection.

Overall, a good cycle but I can't help but feel that I would have gotten HS with W/E. However, once I'm paying off debt, I may be happy I wasn't tempted!

Why not the Dillard or Mordecai?

Clyde Frog wrote:

packer_22 wrote:I just wanted to update this for those who might have been interested/future viewers!

YHS- rejected, waitlisted, waitlisted

CCN- Butler, 45k, 105k (Taking the Butler)

MVP- 120k, Dillard, waitlisted

DCG- Mordecai, withdrew, withdrew

So, 8 acceptances, 3 waitlists and 1 rejection.

Overall, a good cycle but I can't help but feel that I would have gotten HS with W/E. However, once I'm paying off debt, I may be happy I wasn't tempted!

Why not the Dillard or Mordecai?

Yea why not the Mordecai? Also, yea you'd probably get H with some work exp.

Why not Virginia or Duke?

Quite frankly, I want to live in a big city and be in the North. I'm from the South originally and I really don't enjoy it. I'm very debt adverse, but the idea of paying $80,000 for a higher quality of life, improved job prospects, and more happiness is worth it to me.

packer_22 wrote:Why not Virginia or Duke?

Quite frankly, I want to live in a big city and be in the North. I'm from the South originally and I really don't enjoy it. I'm very debt adverse, but the idea of paying $80,000 for a higher quality of life, improved job prospects, and more happiness is worth it to me.

Fair enough. Nice cycle btw.

I'm not sure how much this would play into things, but Columbia and Harvard claims to average retakes; Yale has a "holistic" review process. In other words, a 173/177 !=177 for these schools. It's possible it's all just talk, especially with high LSATs becoming rarer.

If you have interesting job/post-graduation opportunities, I'd take them and reapply. I don't think I'd retake (FWIW I'm in a similar situation and that's probably what I'll end up doing).

stoopkid13 wrote:I'm not sure how much this would play into things, but Columbia and Harvard claims to average retakes; Yale has a "holistic" review process. In other words, a 173/177 !=177 for these schools. It's possible it's all just talk, especially with high LSATs becoming rarer.

If you have interesting job/post-graduation opportunities, I'd take them and reapply. I don't think I'd retake (FWIW I'm in a similar situation and that's probably what I'll end up doing).

False on both counts Colombia and H do not average retakes best counts.

There is a difference between a 173 and 177 at Y. Although a 177 does not guarantee ( in fact a 180 does not) admissions....a 177 will put you at 75% LSAT and a 173 is median

.

You're very debt averse and turned down a full ride?

Mack.Hambleton wrote:You're very debt averse and turned down a full ride?

Yea, paying $$ is not the right call here. Butler at C isn't worth the price difference.

Either you accept the full rides at Duke/UVA (argument about not wanting to be in the south isn't good enough)

Or, you only go to law school after getting full rides at CCNP.

BizBro wrote:

Mack.Hambleton wrote:You're very debt averse and turned down a full ride?

Yea, paying $$ is not the right call here. Butler at C isn't worth the price difference.

Either you accept the full rides at Duke/UVA (argument about not wanting to be in the south isn't good enough)

Or, you only go to law school after getting full rides at CCNP.

Always love when someone chimes in to tell a total stranger that his/her "argument" (which btw is a wrongly ascribed word here given OP was talking about feelings) for what will make him/her most happy "isn't good enough." Lolz.

WhatCouldHaveBeen wrote:

BizBro wrote:

Mack.Hambleton wrote:You're very debt averse and turned down a full ride?

Yea, paying $$ is not the right call here. Butler at C isn't worth the price difference.

Either you accept the full rides at Duke/UVA (argument about not wanting to be in the south isn't good enough)

Or, you only go to law school after getting full rides at CCNP.

Always love when someone chimes in to tell a total stranger that his/her "argument" (which btw is a wrongly ascribed word here given OP was talking about feelings) for what will make him/her most happy "isn't good enough." Lolz.

this comment isn't good enough

BizBro wrote:

Mack.Hambleton wrote:You're very debt averse and turned down a full ride?

Yea, paying $$ is not the right call here. Butler at C isn't worth the price difference.

Either you accept the full rides at Duke/UVA (argument about not wanting to be in the south isn't good enough)

Or, you only go to law school after getting full rides at CCNP.

lol whut

A Butler is not a bad outcome - it may not be the best option but if OP's debt is only going to be 80K the answer is definitely not "full ride only at CCN" or "take somewhere where you think you'll be unhappy"

Post removed.

ChemEng1642 wrote:

BizBro wrote:

Mack.Hambleton wrote:You're very debt averse and turned down a full ride?

Yea, paying $$ is not the right call here. Butler at C isn't worth the price difference.

Either you accept the full rides at Duke/UVA (argument about not wanting to be in the south isn't good enough)

Or, you only go to law school after getting full rides at CCNP.

lol whut

A Butler is not a bad outcome - it may not be the best option but if OP's debt is only going to be 80K the answer is definitely not "full ride only at CCN" or "take somewhere where you think you'll be unhappy"

OP is paying 80k MORE for Columbia. The debt load with a Butler will be something like 175k unless OP has a lot of personal help.

Tiago Splitter wrote:

ChemEng1642 wrote:

BizBro wrote:

Mack.Hambleton wrote:You're very debt averse and turned down a full ride?

Yea, paying $$ is not the right call here. Butler at C isn't worth the price difference.

Either you accept the full rides at Duke/UVA (argument about not wanting to be in the south isn't good enough)

Or, you only go to law school after getting full rides at CCNP.

lol whut

A Butler is not a bad outcome - it may not be the best option but if OP's debt is only going to be 80K the answer is definitely not "full ride only at CCN" or "take somewhere where you think you'll be unhappy"

OP is paying 80k MORE for Columbia. The debt load with a Butler will be something like 175k unless OP has a lot of personal help.

Hmm I thought I read that OP could GO for 80K, but guess I misread. I still disagree with saying outright that OP can only "accept a full ride at Duke/UVA" or "has to retake until he/she gets a full ride at CCN". I think when you're comparing a half scholly with a full scholly personal preference can play a larger role. As long as OP knows that Columbia will necessitate ~2 more years in Biglaw than Duke/UVA and is okay with that, then I think this decision is defensible.

ChemEng1642 wrote:

Tiago Splitter wrote:

ChemEng1642 wrote:

BizBro wrote:

Mack.Hambleton wrote:You're very debt averse and turned down a full ride?

Yea, paying $$ is not the right call here. Butler at C isn't worth the price difference.

Either you accept the full rides at Duke/UVA (argument about not wanting to be in the south isn't good enough)

Or, you only go to law school after getting full rides at CCNP.

lol whut

A Butler is not a bad outcome - it may not be the best option but if OP's debt is only going to be 80K the answer is definitely not "full ride only at CCN" or "take somewhere where you think you'll be unhappy"

OP is paying 80k MORE for Columbia. The debt load with a Butler will be something like 175k unless OP has a lot of personal help.

Hmm I thought I read that OP could GO for 80K, but guess I misread. I still disagree with saying outright that OP can only "accept a full ride at Duke/UVA" or "has to retake until he/she gets a full ride at CCN". I think when you're comparing a half scholly with a full scholly personal preference can play a larger role. As long as OP knows that Columbia will necessitate ~2 more years in Biglaw than Duke/UVA and is okay with that, then I think this decision is defensible.

No, you're just wrong. I said that a Butler at columbia is never worth it compared to the "full ride at Duke/UVA," as you put it. It's not a personal preference. If you're paying 80K MORE for any t14 over the other, you're fucking up. In fact, I wouldn't even go to HYS for 80k more to end up in big law.

BizBro wrote:No, you're just wrong. I said that a Butler at columbia is never worth it compared to the "full ride at Duke/UVA," as you put it. It's not a personal preference. If you're paying 80K MORE for any t14 over the other, you're fucking up. In fact, I wouldn't even go to HYS for 80k more to end up in big law.

Calm down. Reasonable minds can differ. Whoever is "right" (and there may not be a right b/c it may simply be a matter of appetite for risk), it's certainly an open question up for debate, not a slam dunk either way.

Op made a choice already. /thread