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Got the 166 in Oct. 2012, my senior year at a top 30 school. Retook in June 2014 after studying hard for a few months. I'm non-URM hispanic, Dominican to be specific. I know I'm not going to Yale, but can I get into Harvard or Stanford?

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Your numbers are borderline for H. 3.6 is low, but it has happened in the past.

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/notyomachoman
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/mm3456

You definitely have a shot, so do apply, but manage your expectations.

What are your softs like? I'm guessing from your LSAT timeline that you're out of college, and you have some work experience. That should help somewhat.

Make sure you have a strong reason for being dead set on H/S. That debt is something to avoid if possible.

Not trying to get into a heavy debate on this but:

How in the world are you from the DR and NOT a URM (especially with you saying you're Hispanic). Seriously I know it's possible but it seems unlikely. Could you give more details? I think you may be incorrect in your assessment that you aren't URM (which changes the answer to this question significantly--as in Yale becomes a possibility).

flawschoolkid wrote:Make sure you have a strong reason for being dead set on H/S. That debt is something to avoid if possible.

They give pure need based aid (which includes grants).

smccgrey wrote:I feel like "maybe" should be an answer... I'll vote yes though - yes to H anyway... you've been out of school for a year, and I think that might help a tiny bit.

Mostly wanted to just congratulate you on that sweet LSAT success. I just hope the people questioning whether or not to retake see this and realize that it's worth it! Even if you don't get into Harvard or Stanford, you'll probably get $$$ from the T14...

Thanks! I agree - retaking literally changed my life. I worked hard, though, and would caution anyone who wants to retake to ensure they get a better score the second time around. On the bright side, all the studying I did for the first test wasn't for nothing - I recalled what I'd learned the first time fairly quickly and my studying for the June test was built on that.

Straw_Mandible wrote:Your numbers are borderline for H. 3.6 is low, but it has happened in the past.

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/notyomachoman
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/mm3456

You definitely have a shot, so do apply, but manage your expectations.

What are your softs like? I'm guessing from your LSAT timeline that you're out of college, and you have some work experience. That should help somewhat.

I've been working as a paralegal for a year at a reputable firm. My extracurriculars are good but pretty average, i.e., I don't think it'll be a deal breaker one way or the other for me.

flawschoolkid wrote:Make sure you have a strong reason for being dead set on H/S. That debt is something to avoid if possible.

I'm not entirely dead set on H or S, but I do want to have as many options as possible.

BruceWayne wrote:Not trying to get into a heavy debate on this but:

How in the world are you from the DR and NOT a URM (especially with you saying you're Hispanic). Seriously I know it's possible but it seems unlikely. Could you give more details? I think you may be incorrect in your assessment that you aren't URM (which changes the answer to this question significantly--as in Yale becomes a possibility).

flawschoolkid wrote:Make sure you have a strong reason for being dead set on H/S. That debt is something to avoid if possible.

They give pure need based aid (which includes grants).

I'm saying that I'm non-URM based on what I've read around here and other places. Basically, the only URM Hispanic groups are Mexicans and Puerto Ricans, as I understand. I think it's a numbers thing. There are less than 2 million Dominicans in the country, about half a percentage of the population. So if a law school has 0 Dominicans, that's still an appropriate representation given the national population. Thus, Dominicans like myself are not under represented in law.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

I wouldn't get too wrapped up in the numbers thing as far as what is considered a URM and what isn't. It's deeper/more complex than that.


That being said: the reality is that there just aren't a lot of Dominicans applying to top law schools so that's why you probably aren't seeing a lot of posts on this. Another issue, not to get too into this because I understand it's touchy, is that a lot of Dominicans don't identify as Black but you would easily/readily be considered as such here in the U.S. even if your culture tends to say otherwise. In my opinion you should take this into consideration when you apply if you fall into that category. But even if you don't or just don't want to identify that way I believe that as long as you identify on your app as Hispanic without checking whatever they have down for White/Caucasian you will get some sort of boost. And honestly with your numbers, even if you only receive the weaker non Black URM boost, there's a good chance that it will be enough to push you right over the edge and cement your admission at Harvard vs. a non-diverse applicant with your numbers.

If urm then maybe. If not then no chance at all sorry

JamMasterJ wrote:If urm then maybe. If not then no chance at all sorry

This is a bit strong. Apps are down, and depending on softs, etc., OP might stand a decent chance. Mild splitters have gotten H this cycle. I'd say a 3.6/175 with some WE should expect to at least get a waitlist.

BruceWayne wrote:I wouldn't get too wrapped up in the numbers thing as far as what is considered a URM and what isn't. It's deeper/more complex than that.


That being said: the reality is that there just aren't a lot of Dominicans applying to top law schools so that's why you probably aren't seeing a lot of posts on this. Another issue, not to get too into this because I understand it's touchy, is that a lot of Dominicans don't identify as Black but you would easily/readily be considered such here in the U.S. even if your culture tends to say otherwise. In my opinion you should take this into consideration when you apply if you fall into that category. But even if you don't or just don't want to identify that way I believe that as long as you identify on your app as Hispanic without checking whatever they have down for White/Caucasian you will get some sort of boost. And honestly with your numbers, even if you only receive the weaker non Black URM boost, there's a good chance that it will be enough to push you right over the edge and cement your admission at Harvard vs. a non-diverse applicant with your numbers.

I'm a light skinned Dominican, not that anyone can tell from reading a diversity statement. I don't identify as Black because, on top of the cultural stuff, I'm not. I tend to agree with you, that even a slight boost might get me over the hump and in to Harvard - at least that's the hope. Thanks for your response.

JamMasterJ wrote:If urm then maybe. If not then no chance at all sorry

Really, no chance at all? I know I'm well under the 25th percentile GPA, but I am at the 75th percentile LSAT. I don't doubt you, but I am a bit surprised. LSN says I have a 13% chance, which I guess is close enough to none.

Your application looks like it will be pretty similar to mine. I'm URM (MA), 3.68, 176 (2nd try), two years WE at a law firm.

I got into HSCCN and some below it with good money.

Blanket the T14, but as somebody said earlier, manage your expectations. URM cycles can be a bit more volatile than a typical cycle.

One more note about the "URM or not URM" discussion: I think I remember hearing that what you marked on the LSAT for race reporting is important. Nonetheless, you come from a diverse and less privileged culture--make sure you write a diversity statement and it will be considered regardless of the strict constructions we believe exist.

JamMasterJ wrote:If urm then maybe. If not then no chance at all sorry

That's way too strong of a statement. He definitely has a chance even if he isn't URM.

OP, your chances will be better at H than S.

You certainly have a shot but it's probably entirely dependent on how good the rest of your application is. You pretty much are going to need above-average to outstanding LORs, personal statement, diversity statement, softs/resume, and interview performance. There are plenty of people with median+ GPAs and LSATs that don't get in so you will need your application to shine.