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I have a 3.9 GPA with a double major and extensive leadership and service experience at Notre Dame and a 164 LSAT. I am looking to work as a prosecutor in the Midwest region and, as I have taken on undergraduate loan debt, am stuck between a financial rock and a hard place. Is it even worth it to apply to T14 schools?

Thanks!

dpasson wrote:I have a 3.9 GPA with a double major and extensive leadership and service experience at Notre Dame and a 164 LSAT. I am looking to work as a prosecutor in the Midwest region and, as I have taken on undergraduate loan debt, am stuck between a financial rock and a hard place. Is it even worth it to apply to T14 schools?

Thanks!

dont waste your 3.9 with a 164, retake for a 170+ and get a full scholarship to a lower t-14 so you wont be crippled with even more debt.

gnomgnomuch wrote:

dpasson wrote:I have a 3.9 GPA with a double major and extensive leadership and service experience at Notre Dame and a 164 LSAT. I am looking to work as a prosecutor in the Midwest region and, as I have taken on undergraduate loan debt, am stuck between a financial rock and a hard place. Is it even worth it to apply to T14 schools?

Thanks!

dont waste your 3.9 with a 164, retake for a 170+ and get a full scholarship to a lower t-14 so you wont be crippled with even more debt.

Thanks for your response! My problem's that I'm not a great tester (legitimately, not just in the vague sense of a random excuse) and that I really can't afford any extensive prep. I feel like my score would just rise or fall a few inconsequential points.

gnomgnomuch wrote:

dpasson wrote:I have a 3.9 GPA with a double major and extensive leadership and service experience at Notre Dame and a 164 LSAT. I am looking to work as a prosecutor in the Midwest region and, as I have taken on undergraduate loan debt, am stuck between a financial rock and a hard place. Is it even worth it to apply to T14 schools?

Thanks!

dont waste your 3.9 with a 164, retake for a 170+ and get a full scholarship to a lower t-14 so you wont be crippled with even more debt.

This. Your LSAT is the last part of your application where you can still make significant changes. Right now, you're at or above the uGPA median at any of the T14 schools, but you're at or below the 25th LSAT percentile at almost all of them.

Pretty much what everyone else said. You've probably read it a lot already, but if not definitely maximize your potential by retaking. Not being able to afford extensive prep is a flame (if you're referring to using test pre companies) because you can self prep and use TLS as a huge resource. Bunch of people have done it and have had a lot of success. Also think about it long term...whatever money you use now might seem like a lot for prep, but in the grand scheme of things it could save you 10s maybe even 100k+ worth of loans by getting schollies.

ETA: Feel free to pm if you wanna discuss specifics or have other questions. I wish I had a 3.9 so bad haha

dpasson wrote:I have a 3.9 GPA with a double major and extensive leadership and service experience at Notre Dame and a 164 LSAT. I am looking to work as a prosecutor in the Midwest region and, as I have taken on undergraduate loan debt, am stuck between a financial rock and a hard place. Is it even worth it to apply to T14 schools?

Thanks!

I know someone with your exact stats from a shit UG who got good offers to numerous T14s; if you have strong softs it is worth a try. That said, study using TLS tips and retake, as others have said. The best COA you're going to get from a T14 with your numbers is $100k, very optimistically. If you break into the 170s you could be looking at potential full rides.

dpasson wrote:

gnomgnomuch wrote:

dpasson wrote:I have a 3.9 GPA with a double major and extensive leadership and service experience at Notre Dame and a 164 LSAT. I am looking to work as a prosecutor in the Midwest region and, as I have taken on undergraduate loan debt, am stuck between a financial rock and a hard place. Is it even worth it to apply to T14 schools?

Thanks!

dont waste your 3.9 with a 164, retake for a 170+ and get a full scholarship to a lower t-14 so you wont be crippled with even more debt.

Thanks for your response! My problem's that I'm not a great tester (legitimately, not just in the vague sense of a random excuse) and that I really can't afford any extensive prep. I feel like my score would just rise or fall a few inconsequential points.

I mean objectively a 164 is a 90th percentile LSAT, so think about it in terms of "Im already better than 90% of takers, why cant i make myself better than 97% of them." But, enough of the philosophical stuff, identify your weaknesses, drill them, drill them and drill them some more. If your weakness is fatigue, take 6 section or even 7 section tests, if your weakness is concentration, go to a starbucks and take the test. Whatever it is, make sure you figure it out, and then own it. For decent money at a lower t-14 you'd need a 168+, for a full ride 171+.

Also, if your goals are Big-law, you need a t-14 without adding much more debt.

rizzletake

As someone who is a reverse splitter, I can't echo enough how much the retake advice is TCR - i really wish I would have (I wasn't a good test taker either, but just remember, your law school exams are just like the LSAT, and if you can't crush the LSAT you probably won't get grades).

With what you have now, at least one T-14 between Virginia through Georgetown will bite. With that said, you won't get any money. If your goal is to be a midwest prosecutor, then maybe WUSTL with $$ would be a good option

No reason not to try again. Tons of TLSers have self-studied for a retake and scored significantly higher. What do you have to lose?

ymmv wrote:

dpasson wrote:I have a 3.9 GPA with a double major and extensive leadership and service experience at Notre Dame and a 164 LSAT. I am looking to work as a prosecutor in the Midwest region and, as I have taken on undergraduate loan debt, am stuck between a financial rock and a hard place. Is it even worth it to apply to T14 schools?

Thanks!

I know someone with your exact stats from a shit UG who got good offers to numerous T14s; if you have strong softs it is worth a try. That said, study using TLS tips and retake, as others have said. The best COA you're going to get from a T14 with your numbers is $100k, very optimistically. If you break into the 170s you could be looking at potential full rides.

Well to add more anecdotal evidence, I had a better GPA and LSAT than those stats and I was waitlisted everywhere in the T-14, so don't count on it.

I had almost identical stats: got into one CCN got Penn and Virginia, michigan and Georgetown.

I got no money from CVM. 40k from P and 30k from G. So even the places that gave me money didn't give me a boat load.

I had some interesting softs so take this for what it is. I had also maxed out LSAT.

I'd apply broadly if I were you.

..

everyone's right that you should retake, just because you should. it was hell for me given the job i had at the time, and i ended up canceling 6 days after i took it the second time. but i was still glad i gave it another shot.

all that said, i'd urge you not to be discouraged by some of the earlier posts. i had a 3.9 and 165 (my profile says otherwise because i cared enough about anonymity when i made it last year) and ended up getting into chicago early. i ended up withdrawing my 22 other apps so i don't know what would have happened with most of them, but i did get into two schools just outside the t14 in a couple of weeks. i don't know enough about your softs, and while i acknowledge that most people tend to think theirs are great, i am confident that i would not have been successful without good work experience, great recs, etc. if you've got them, don't think they're not worth anything.

and if it helps at all when thinking about 1L, don't believe all they tell you about your lsat being such a great predictor of law school performance. i'm doing well on a curve with students that pretty much all scored higher than i did. some people just suck at standardized tests, but the lsat looks nothing like a law school exam (let alone any of the assignments you'll get in your writing class).

good luck. take the test again so you know you did everything you could. and send out as many apps as you can. you never know what will happen.

If by some chance you get into one of the lower T14 (apps are done so it could be possible), you're gonna be paying full sticker or damn close to it. You said you already have undegrad loans so you're looking at like $350,000+ in loans as a 25-26 year old. Sticker alone is a scary enough proposition but adding undegrads loans to it makes it a scarier gamble.

It's the most repeated thing on TLS, but you should really retake.

Your T14 chances are good. Not positive about the T6, but T14, certainly.

Dafaq wrote:Your T14 chances are good. Not positive about the T6, but T14, certainly.

It doesn't matter if you can just get in, it's all about the $$$$.

I am belaboring the point, but do consider that jumping 5 points COULD mean a six-figure scholarship at a T14 versus merely hoping that one of them will like your application. With your numbers I would say you have a chance at the T14 (having applied with similar numbers once myself and getting waitlisted), but getting in would mean getting lucky by striking the fancy of some admissions dean. I wouldn't count on it. The probability of you missing the T14 with your score is high, even with your excellent GPA.

Making the decision between a large-to-full scholarship at a strong regional school and a T14 with lots of debt is not fun, and if I were in your shoes, I would try to avoid that situation by drilling practice tests until October. If you go for it, you will thank yourself later. Best of luck.

Retake, man.

It sucks up front, but it could be the best decision you'll ever make.

What are your practice tests like? If you're not sure you can get higher, you should try buying a book of old tests and taking a lot. That will help you practice and get better without needing to afford expensive classes, and you can get an idea of whether your score is likely to improve.