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Hey guys, What schools in California do you think might give me scholarship money for a 161/3.6? Any ABA or even CBE school is fine with me, my priority is lowest debt possible. I know these numbers are not great but hopefully I might get something?

Thoughts?

tangelo wrote:Hey guys, What schools in California do you think might give me scholarship money for a 161/3.6? Any ABA or even CBE school is fine with me, my priority is lowest debt possible. I know these numbers are not great but hopefully I might get something?

Thoughts?

Do you have a guaranteed job upon passing the CA bar?

No I do not. Planning to hang my own shingle or start a small firm with a few friends who are practicing. But taking a job at a small firm is not out of the question.

Your numbers aren't bad, really. You'd get some scholarship money from places like San Diego, Loyola, and Southwestern, IMO. Still, though, since you don't have a job waiting for you on the other end, you should probably go to a school that is going to give you a decent chance at gainful employment if striking out on your own doesn't work out. (Someone more experienced can comment on whether or not that's advisable, but I'd guess not.)

161 is a solid score, and shows that you've at least grasped the fundamentals of the test. Give serious thought to retaking. Add 6-7 points and places like UCLA and USC come into play.

Look at Law School Numbers - it's a great website that gives you an idea of what numbers got scholarships in past years.

Please attend an ABA-accreditted school. You never know if life circumstances would compel you to work outside of California. Also, I believe students at CBA schools have to pass the "baby bar" after their first year. I could be way wrong on that one though - not a Californian.

The California market is very full of lawyers and law schools right now. If you can't go to one of the top 3-4 ABA schools in the state with less than six figures of debt, you may want to reconsider law school entirely.

As others have said, retaking would open a lot more doors and a lot more money.

Thanks for the help guys.

I'm not in this for the money. I just want to minimize my debt. Also, there are no other options for me, it's law school or bust. I'm going all the way and the pedigree of the school does not matter to me that much. I'm in my 40's. This is about having little debt and hanging a shingle. I have the means to withstand 2-3 years of making 30-50K, so my income is not important the first few years as I gain experience and a client list.

My only desire is to find a school with these numbers that will allow for some scholarship money to reduce debt. I will not be taking the test again. I will be practicing in California and no where else, ever. That's about it in a nutshell. Thanks again for your insight, it really helps.

At this point I guess I will try Southwestern, Loyola and San Diego a shot for scholarship money with my numbers, but it feels like a longshot to me.

tangelo wrote:Also, there are no other options for me, it's law school or bust.

Very interested in how that could possibly be true.

What confuses you? Law School has been my ultimate goal for over 20 years. This is all I want and will do whatever it takes to become a lawyer. Simple enough.

tangelo wrote:This is all I want and will do whatever it takes to become a lawyer. Simple enough.

Will you study for the LSAT? Because that's probably "what it takes" to become a lawyer, or at least, to have a good chance at becoming a lawyer without crippling debt.

Simple enough.

What is your goal in going to law school? What kind of law are you looking to practice? Why only SoCal schools. I don't get it.

Also, CA is a big state.
Where, specifically, are you interested in practicing?

TheSpanishMain wrote:

tangelo wrote:This is all I want and will do whatever it takes to become a lawyer. Simple enough.

Will you study for the LSAT? Because that's probably "what it takes" to become a lawyer, or at least, to have a good chance at becoming a lawyer without crippling debt.

Simple enough.

I scored a 161, man. What's confusing you?

Cal Trask wrote:What is your goal in going to law school? What kind of law are you looking to practice? Why only SoCal schools. I don't get it.

Because I own two homes in Los Angeles and have a family here. I have built substantial connections here in LA in the business community and will rely on that pool of connections to build a client list.

I would like to be involved in criminal defense, family law and injury. However I will obviously have a stronger feel for what I gravitate to during LS.

Dingo Starr wrote:Also, CA is a big state.
Where, specifically, are you interested in practicing?

Los Angeles and San Diego. These are the two cities I have the most connections in.

tangelo wrote:

TheSpanishMain wrote:

tangelo wrote:This is all I want and will do whatever it takes to become a lawyer. Simple enough.

Will you study for the LSAT? Because that's probably "what it takes" to become a lawyer, or at least, to have a good chance at becoming a lawyer without crippling debt.

Simple enough.

I scored a 161, man. What's confusing you?

take it again

tangelo wrote:

TheSpanishMain wrote:

tangelo wrote:This is all I want and will do whatever it takes to become a lawyer. Simple enough.

Will you study for the LSAT? Because that's probably "what it takes" to become a lawyer, or at least, to have a good chance at becoming a lawyer without crippling debt.

Simple enough.

I scored a 161, man. What's confusing you?

You can give yourself a significantly better chance of achieving what you claim is your life's ambition/number one "will do whatever it takes" goal by simply retaking a test. Why NOT retake it? If being a lawyer is so important to you, why are you not doing everything you can to give yourself better odds of achieving it?

I'm not trying to put you down. A 161 is a pretty respectable score. It's actually all the more reason you should retake, since it shows you at least have a solid grounding in the fundamentals. Increase your score and you'll be getting money out of UCLA or USC, not Southwestern, and have a significantly better chance of reaching your goals.

If you try to hang your own shingle or band with other grads you will probably fail. Please don't do this to your family. They are innocents in all this, and they are relying on you to help put food on the table and a roof over their head.

If you really want to be a lawyer, put in the work necessary to go to a good law school (for as cheap as you can get it) and do everything you possibly can to make this plan succeed.

Honestly though it sounds like you have a good job now (two houses?) so you should probably just stick with that.

TheSpanishMain wrote:

tangelo wrote:

TheSpanishMain wrote:

tangelo wrote:This is all I want and will do whatever it takes to become a lawyer. Simple enough.

Will you study for the LSAT? Because that's probably "what it takes" to become a lawyer, or at least, to have a good chance at becoming a lawyer without crippling debt.

Simple enough.

I scored a 161, man. What's confusing you?

You can give yourself a significantly better chance of achieving what you claim is your life's ambition/number one "will do whatever it takes" goal by simply retaking a test. Why NOT retake it? If being a lawyer is so important to you, why are you not doing everything you can to give yourself better odds of achieving it?

I'm not trying to put you down. A 161 is a pretty respectable score. It's actually all the more reason you should retake, since it shows you at least have a solid grounding in the fundamentals. Increase your score and you'll be getting money out of UCLA or USC, not Southwestern, and have a significantly better chance of reaching your goals.

Ah, I see what you mean now. For some reason I din't understand what you were getting at, my bad. I completely understand the theory behind that, however my question is based purely on this score and LSAT. Why bother asking for advise on a score and lsat if the answer is always, take it again to increase your score? I mean, unless you have a 180, why bother asking questions about your current score if the only answer (which is rampant here) is, take it again, take it again!?

It's just ridiculous to me. This community shouldn't have a forum to place your score and gpa, if it continually comes down to taking the test again. It's the same rhetoric in almost every thread and it's really frustrating. I also see the same people, every single time, repeating the "take it again" response. I don't know, guess I'm not being articulate here. All I'm saying is, you guys who say the same thing over and over should just consider answering the question at hand and lose the same, tired answer.

The people asking this question about our score are not morons and we all know we have the option of taking it again, but we all also have several variables in our personal life that lead us to making our big boy decisions such as not taking it again. One of my factors is I do not want a second score. That's my decision and I'm comfortable with that.

Anyway, I DO appreciate all the help. Sincerely.

tangelo wrote:

TheSpanishMain wrote:

tangelo wrote:This is all I want and will do whatever it takes to become a lawyer. Simple enough.

Will you study for the LSAT? Because that's probably "what it takes" to become a lawyer, or at least, to have a good chance at becoming a lawyer without crippling debt.

Simple enough.

I scored a 161, man. What's confusing you?

It seems what is being said is there is not a great likelihood you will ever practice law coming out of a subpar school in an oversaturated state. So if you want to do whatever it takes, then retaking is the most efficient way to do whatever it takes.

BigZuck wrote:If you try to hang your own shingle or band with other grads you will probably fail. Please don't do this to your family. They are innocents in all this, and they are relying on you to help put food on the table and a roof over their head.

Am I in crazy land here?

I own two homes and my family makes mid six figures. Not that it's any of your business, but law school is a dream and not a necessity. I want it and will complete it and will follow the path that I feel is best for me. That is hanging a shingle and building a client list based on the countless connections I have in the business community. Your assumptions are baseless and you do not know me or my situation based on a simple question I asked about scholarships. I simply do not want the added debt, yet some of you feel the need to make career choices for me? Craziness, but it's cool I guess.

jkwo07 wrote:

tangelo wrote:

TheSpanishMain wrote:

tangelo wrote:This is all I want and will do whatever it takes to become a lawyer. Simple enough.

Will you study for the LSAT? Because that's probably "what it takes" to become a lawyer, or at least, to have a good chance at becoming a lawyer without crippling debt.

Simple enough.

I scored a 161, man. What's confusing you?

It seems what is being said is there is not a great likelihood you will ever practice law coming out of a subpar school in an oversaturated state. So if you want to do whatever it takes, then retaking is the most efficient way to do whatever it takes.

Thanks, I completely understand, and completely disagree. But again, I really do appreciate the advice.

tangelo wrote:

BigZuck wrote:If you try to hang your own shingle or band with other grads you will probably fail. Please don't do this to your family. They are innocents in all this, and they are relying on you to help put food on the table and a roof over their head.

Am I in crazy land here?

I own two homes and my family makes mid six figures. Not that it's any of your business, but law school is a dream and not a necessity. I want it and will complete it and will follow the path that I feel is best for me. That is hanging a shingle and building a client list based on the countless connections I have in the business community. Your assumptions are baseless and you do not know me or my situation based on a simple question I asked about scholarships. I simply do not want the added debt, yet some of you feel the need to make career choices for me? Craziness, but it's cool I guess.

If you're independently wealthy and this is just a passion project for you, you should've said so. That's a very different calculus than for 99.9% of the boards, so it's not surprising that you got the advice you did.

tangelo wrote: The people asking this question about our score are not morons and we all know we have the option of taking it again, but we all also have several variables in our personal life that lead us to making our big boy decisions such as not taking it again.

You might be surprised. Most people don't realize that the LSAT is very learnable or that schools will only look at your highest score. It would be crazy not to encourage people to retake.

Fortunately for you, there are lots of schools in Southern California that have terrible LSAT and GPA medians and would love to bring you on board with either a full ride or something close to it. School just care about those two numbers, so look for ones where you're above both medians.

TheSpanishMain wrote:

tangelo wrote:

BigZuck wrote:If you try to hang your own shingle or band with other grads you will probably fail. Please don't do this to your family. They are innocents in all this, and they are relying on you to help put food on the table and a roof over their head.

Am I in crazy land here?

I own two homes and my family makes mid six figures. Not that it's any of your business, but law school is a dream and not a necessity. I want it and will complete it and will follow the path that I feel is best for me. That is hanging a shingle and building a client list based on the countless connections I have in the business community. Your assumptions are baseless and you do not know me or my situation based on a simple question I asked about scholarships. I simply do not want the added debt, yet some of you feel the need to make career choices for me? Craziness, but it's cool I guess.

If you're independently wealthy and this is just a passion project for you, you should've said so. That's a very different calculus than for 99.9% of the boards, so it's not surprising that you got the advice you did.

Well I didn't think I would get all this career advice and demands to take the lsat again when the only simple question I asked was, this is my score and gpa, what scholarship options do I have? The problem with some of these threads is everyone wants to give life advice or answers to questions not even asked, and it frustrates and alienates a lot of people who visit these forums. I've been quietly watching for a long time and this isn't a new problem.

And I'm not independently wealthy, but my family is comfortable.

Tiago Splitter wrote:Fortunately for you, there are lots of schools in Southern California that have terrible LSAT and GPA medians and would love to bring you on board with either a full ride or something close to it. School just care about those two numbers, so look for ones where you're above both medians.

Perfect, thanks for the advice I asked for.