Is it worth applying this cycle? - 3.93 GPA - 160 LSAT Forum

[Cubsin2100]

Hey All -

I'm in a pickle. I have my heart set on a T14 school. Trying to decide whether to hit the send buttons on my applications for this cycle. More details after the jump, but first, here's the fun stuff we all love.

Undergrad: 2010 graduate from top 5 private university (public policy- political science double major)
Honors: Phi Beta Kappa, magna cum laude graduate

GPA: 3.93
LSAT: 160/ 160

Recs: very underwhelming
Essays: above average
Work experience: DC lobbying internship, Congressional campaign work, and the last 3 years doing Editorial work for a large company

I have my applications ready to go for, but not submitted to, the following:

Chicago, Duke, Northwestern, UT, WUSTL, Stanford (lol)


So, my question: should I apply for this cycle. The 160 is gonna kill me, and it is late in the cycle, but my initial thought was: why not? Maybe I'll get lucky, somebody will take me.

On the other hand, I am very confident I can improve my LSAT score to 170+, if not 175 if I retake in June or October. Yes. I took the LSAT twice, did poorly both times. However, I did not prepare well enough*

I'm tempted to wait until the next cycle, knowing that I'll be more prepared, have stronger applications, a better LSAT score (hopefully), and generally know how to handle the process better.

I have a lot of pressure from many people to apply this cycle, however. My family, because they have been waiting 5 years for me to finally take the the leap. Also, my fiancee. We're getting married this summer and we were hoping to get started on law school/moving/starting a family right away. Waiting means another year in our dead-end jobs, in a city we do not like.

The reason I am applying so late in the cycle, and the reason I got bad LSAT scores/ didnt prep, was because at that I wasn't sure I was ready for law school, and was subconsciously dragging my feet.

I'm much more committed to law school now. But I'm worried that my desire to scrap this year's applications is partially just cold feet. It definitely makes sense to wait, but I don't want to not apply for the wrong reasons.

So, should I apply this year? Will it hurt my chances for the following year?

Obviously I know there is a 95% chance that, if I want a T14, I'll be waiting anyway. And what if I get accepted to WUSTL? Or Northwestern? or even Chicago? Would I accept, even though my chances at a HYS would be better next year?

Thanks for the input folks. You all are the best!


* Preparation was reading through Logic Games Powerscore book a couple of times. Didn't take any PTs, didn't do much in timed setting. Scored near perfect on Reading. 60% of my misses came from logic games, 40% from LR. Both seem extremely learnable to me, and I'm prepared to study like whoah before June or October test.

[MKC]

Wait for the right reasons. Retake, get 170+, enjoy (some of) T-14 for free.

[ScottRiqui]

Wait and re-take. Even if you were to get into an acceptable school this cycle with your 160, you won't get NEAR the scholarship money you'd get with the higher score you're confident you can achieve. Your GPA is stellar; get an LSAT score that does it justice, and you could be looking at full rides or close to it for several of the T14. That's essentially like getting paid $100-150k in return for prepping for the next five or six months.

[SoapyIllusion]

A 3.93 gpa is too nice to waste on a sub-par LSAT score. I would sit out this cycle and prep for the LSAT to give yourself the best possible chance to get a T-14 acceptance. Although it may seem hard to hold off law school, it will ultimately pay off in the end. Just my 2c.

[Nova]

So, should I apply this year?

no, its not worth it.

Will it hurt my chances for the following year?

no, it wouldn't.

[KD35]

Just curious, did you do anything different between the first 160 and the second? What happened there?

Oh and don't blow that GPA with a comparatively POS LSAT.

[Cubsin2100]

Thanks for the input and fast replies, folks! That is definitely my line of thinking at the moment, but...

... is there any harm in applying this year? I've been advised by some that it won't hurt, as long as I come in with a stronger application next year. That said...

... I have a good personal statement I don't want to waste. I'm also not keen on the stress of it all. I work a 9 to 5, am planning a wedding, etc. etc. Continuing this year's application process, potentially visiting places, and all the cycle stress is taking a toll, and I dont know if all this stress is worth it if WUSTL is gonna be the best result I get.

I just wanna cuddle up with my Powerscore books, is that so wrong?

Just curious, did you do anything different between the first 160 and the second? What happened there?

Oh and don't blow that GPA with a comparatively POS LSAT.

Hard to say. Took first in October, second in December. Spent most of the time that I was for my first score by not studying. At the time I was looking for any reason to avoid law school stuff, so I convinced myself I had done well.

After I got the score, between work, family issues, and a few other things, really only had time to work through the Logic Games book/workbook once more I screw up by never taking PTs. I would have known I was weak in LR. I'm an idiot, I never even cracked that book's spine.

[UnicornHunter]

Thanks for the input and fast replies, folks! That is definitely my line of thinking at the moment, but...

... is there any harm in applying this year? I've been advised by some that it won't hurt, as long as I come in with a stronger application next year. That said...

... I have a good personal statement I don't want to waste. I'm also not keen on the stress of it all. I work a 9 to 5, am planning a wedding, etc. etc. Continuing this year's application process, potentially visiting places, and all the cycle stress is taking a toll, and I dont know if all this stress is worth it if WUSTL is gonna be the best result I get.

I just wanna cuddle up with my Powerscore books, is that so wrong?

Just curious, did you do anything different between the first 160 and the second? What happened there?

Oh and don't blow that GPA with a comparatively POS LSAT.

Hard to say. Took first in October, second in December. Spent most of the time that I was for my first score by not studying. At the time I was looking for any reason to avoid law school stuff, so I convinced myself I had done well.

After I got the score, between work, family issues, and a few other things, really only had time to work through the Logic Games book/workbook once more I screw up by never taking PTs. I would have known I was weak in LR. I'm an idiot, I never even cracked that book's spine.

There is harm; there's a chance you'll get accepted at a good school and won't be able to turn it down. As others have said, your GPA is way too good to maybe pay sticker at a lower t-14. A 170+ opens up big money at the lower t-14 and a 173+ makes YSH a possibility along with $$$ in the t6. tl;dr: retake.

[Cubsin2100]

Thanks for the input and fast replies, folks! That is definitely my line of thinking at the moment, but...

... is there any harm in applying this year? I've been advised by some that it won't hurt, as long as I come in with a stronger application next year. That said...

... I have a good personal statement I don't want to waste. I'm also not keen on the stress of it all. I work a 9 to 5, am planning a wedding, etc. etc. Continuing this year's application process, potentially visiting places, and all the cycle stress is taking a toll, and I dont know if all this stress is worth it if WUSTL is gonna be the best result I get.

I just wanna cuddle up with my Powerscore books, is that so wrong?

Just curious, did you do anything different between the first 160 and the second? What happened there?

Oh and don't blow that GPA with a comparatively POS LSAT.

Hard to say. Took first in October, second in December. Spent most of the time that I was for my first score by not studying. At the time I was looking for any reason to avoid law school stuff, so I convinced myself I had done well.

After I got the score, between work, family issues, and a few other things, really only had time to work through the Logic Games book/workbook once more I screw up by never taking PTs. I would have known I was weak in LR. I'm an idiot, I never even cracked that book's spine.

There is harm; there's a chance you'll get accepted at a good school and won't be able to turn it down. As others have said, your GPA is way too good to maybe pay sticker at a lower t-14. A 170+ opens up big money at the lower t-14 and a 173+ makes YSH a possibility along with $$$ in the t6. tl;dr: retake.

I'm tempted to print out just that sentence to show it my fiancee, and tell her "See! See! Others agree!."

I've brought that aspect up 100 times, but she just does not seem to get it. Hard to explain the ins and outs of law school applications to people who aren't also knee deep in it personally :/

I may resort to converting average post-grad salaries/ potential scholarship amounts into piles of M and Ms so she can see the difference visual. I JUST WANT TO PROVIDE OUR FAMILY WITH M AND Ms!!!!!!!

[ScottRiqui]

T14 historical data from LSN, using 160/3.93:




Now, using 170/3.93:



With your current numbers, you can see that you have a non-negligible chance for admission to a T14, but look at how much the higher LSAT improves both your admission chances and the likely scholarship amounts.

[goldenflash19]

Even if you have fee waivers, you'd be wasting a lot of money knowing that your chances at these schools are slim to none with your current score and it's by and far in your best interest to retake. Spend that money on LSAT prep stuff.

[jbagelboy]

definitely, definitely, definitely wait. When you are knocking on the door at HLS or CLS with a scholarship, you'll thank yourself.

[Cubsin2100]

So, it looks like the consensus is to wait...

... now I just have to figure out how to tell the fiancee that we have to wait an extra year to pop out that kid she's been talking about ... gonna have to lawyer her somehow