What would help my HYS chances more? Forum

[drawstring]

4.0+/173 on lone take

I applied to HYS in late October/early November. I had my Harvard interview in November and it seemed to go ok, but I haven't heard back and recent acceptances have gone almost exclusively to people who interviewed in December. It now seems likely that HLS adcoms have an issue with my application, as countless applicants with similar or lower numbers have gotten in. I haven't heard back from SLS, but generally only people who applied in September or early October have, and the same is true of YLS, though I doubt I'll be accepted there anyway.

I know it's still fairly early, and this all may be moot in a couple months, but I want to be prepared for a disappointing cycle and reapplication. I will graduate in a few months and have the opportunity to shake off the K-JD label and acquire a year of WE at a decent job, which I think could help as HLS seems to be stressing WE more now and softs are very important at SLS/YLS. I also think I have a decent chance of scoring up to a 175 if I retake in June-- though I'm not at a point where I'd extremely confident that would happen--and it's not as if my LSAT is already so high that a few extra points couldn't help.

I'm wondering, given that I'm already above the HYS GPA 75ths (and this will almost certainly be the case when I graduate) and at/above the LSAT medians, would my chances at the big three increase more with a year of post-graduation WE or with an extra 1/2 points on the LSAT? I prefer not to write the LSAT again, so if it's the former I'd like to concentrate my efforts on that and another extra-curricular activity I'm involved in.

[Clearly]

Points on the lsat would be more helpful, but the whole idea of sitting a year and retaking is to do both of these things at the same time.

[jbagelboy]

You dont need more LSAT pts unless you want full ride schollies at CCN.

I think this is premature - you'll prolly get H or S, and if not, definitely CCN w/ $$. However, Im always a fan of working before heading to law school. Its a huge commitment. The advantages to full time professional WE have been described across this board.

[drawstring]

Thanks for the responses.

Ya, it probably is premature but I've really been questioning my apps (and I think being a K-JD is my biggest drawback) since HLS looked past me and I'm trying to prepare for the worst (which I think of as not getting any of HYS). Clearly, I know taking an extra year would allow me to do both, but I'm not super confident about scoring higher, I dread going through the LSAT process again, and I'm still not sure if 1 or 2 extra points makes enough of a difference for the tiime, effort, and possible drop worthwhile; I imagine scoring in the high-170s would help greatly, but I don't think that's realistic for me.

[Kimikho]

I think we are both in (or headed into) a similar boat. You're already above a median at H, and yeah, getting above it would be great, but if being KJD is enough to hold you back when you aren't hurting H's LSAT median and are helping its GPA median, I don't think helping both will actually change much. as spivey says--it's their job to accept you right now.

I think the best things you can do right now is start preparing to fight off waitlists (or actually...don't...because that's my strategy...). IDK if you've started your last semester, but I picked this quarter's classes with the mindset that I would want another really, really good letter of rec. unless you have some glaring C+F issue, there's no way you are being outright rejected from H with your numbers off the bat. Remember most of the people who get Yale get H. A lot of the ones who get Stanford get Harvard as well, and same with Ruby/Hamilton people. A waitlist isn't the end of the world.

that all being said, if there was one thing I would change about my app it would be the lack of work experience. it's frustrating because the whole reason I don't have it is because I scored well enough the first time around and have know I wanted to go to law school for two years now. though I understand why schools favor WE, it does feel a little bit like being punished for having your shit together while in UG. So if you had to pick between the two, I would add the year of work experience--though I don't at all think you are at that decision point.

[lawschool22]

You will probably get H, so don't jump to conclusions just yet. They seem to be moving a little slower this cycle for whatever reason.

In any case, what are you goals? If you don't get H but get, say, Columbia with a nice scholly, could that fit into your goals just the same? If you're a biglaw person, I would say definitely.

As far as scoring past a 173...that is just so hard to predict. There is a lot of variability in that, so don't bank on it. I'm not saying you can't do it, and if you don't get the results this cycle that you're looking for, then why not take a shot in June.

As far as WE, that definitely helps, but I don't think it's a "huge" boost to admissions, especially for someone at/above both medians. Where it would help you immensely is at OCI, but if you get HYS I don't think getting a job will be as big a concern as it would be at a lower T-14.

All this is to say (1) don't give up just yet, you haven't been rejected, (2) getting a better LSAT is far from guaranteed, but there's really no downside to another shot if you want to take it, and (3) WE will help but doesn't seem necessary given your numbers, although it will help with OCI more.

[drawstring]

Thanks for all the responses.

[muskies970]

I'll start off by saying I agree with everyone else that you'll probably get in, so don't give up hope yet.

Doesn't Harvard average LSATs? Like another poster said scoring above a 173 can be difficult, so you would want to be certain you did better on a retake in case you scored less favorably.

Obviously a higher LSAT would help, but I think in the odd chance you don't get in, go for the work experience to supplement your application and the extra income/ time to enjoy a year off before the law school grind.

[lawschool22]

I'll start off by saying I agree with everyone else that you'll probably get in, so don't give up hope yet.

Doesn't Harvard average LSATs? Like another poster said scoring above a 173 can be difficult, so you would want to be certain you did better on a retake in case you scored less favorably.

Obviously a higher LSAT would help, but I think in the odd chance you don't get in, go for the work experience to supplement your application and the extra income/ time to enjoy a year off before the law school grind.

No, HLS takes the highest score. There are several people this cycle who got in with 3 or 4 scores, and whose average would put them below-median.

[thewaves]

As people have said, this is premature, and you shouldn't worry at this point. People with lower numbers than yours have gotten in, but people with higher numbers are also rejected. It means that at a certain threshold, yes softs do matter. If HYS is important to you, and you are shutout this cycle, I would work on writing skills, crafting a compelling narrative, and work experience/activities to bolster that statement. Work on developing closer relationships for recommendations. Take on greater projects that demonstrate passion and intellectual curiosity while you're still in college.

[muskies970]

I'll start off by saying I agree with everyone else that you'll probably get in, so don't give up hope yet.

Doesn't Harvard average LSATs? Like another poster said scoring above a 173 can be difficult, so you would want to be certain you did better on a retake in case you scored less favorably.

Obviously a higher LSAT would help, but I think in the odd chance you don't get in, go for the work experience to supplement your application and the extra income/ time to enjoy a year off before the law school grind.

No, HLS takes the highest score. There are several people this cycle who got in with 3 or 4 scores, and whose average would put them below-median.

You're probably right, but why this then?

Should I retake the LSAT?
The LSAT need be taken only once. If you take the test more than once, all scores and their average will be reported and considered.
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http://www.law.harvard.edu/prospective/ ... jdfaq.html
Last modified: January 09, 2014

[lawschool22]

I'll start off by saying I agree with everyone else that you'll probably get in, so don't give up hope yet.

Doesn't Harvard average LSATs? Like another poster said scoring above a 173 can be difficult, so you would want to be certain you did better on a retake in case you scored less favorably.

Obviously a higher LSAT would help, but I think in the odd chance you don't get in, go for the work experience to supplement your application and the extra income/ time to enjoy a year off before the law school grind.

No, HLS takes the highest score. There are several people this cycle who got in with 3 or 4 scores, and whose average would put them below-median.

You're probably right, but why this then?

Should I retake the LSAT?
The LSAT need be taken only once. If you take the test more than once, all scores and their average will be reported and considered.
Back to Top

http://www.law.harvard.edu/prospective/ ... jdfaq.html
Last modified: January 09, 2014

There's a lot of info that they say/want you to think that isn't necessarily true. And they may well "consider" the average, but at the end of the day they only report the highest score to US News, and that's all that matters to them as far as their ranking.

Sure, if they're looking at two identical applicants, and one has two takes and the other only has one take, they will take the person with one take. But that doesn't really happen. A person with a 176 and a 165 is going to have a better cycle than a person with a 173 nine time out of ten, all other things equal.

[xmbeckham]

They have not passed you. They just need to hold your file until they get a more comprehensive view of the applicant pool. Yale admits very very few applicants early in the cycle (so don't expect your result to come out until April/late March). Stanford is probably similar unless the applicant really impresses them. I think H will take you, or at least waitlist you. Yes, your numbers are excellent, but there are other factors that might affect your chances. Maybe your UG institution is not good enough? Your recs are not positive enough? You showed too much of arrogance in your applications? Anyway, I don't think 1 year's WE will do much good.

[lawschool22]

They have not passed you. They just need to hold your file until they get a more comprehensive view of the applicant pool. Yale admits very very few applicants early in the cycle (so don't expect your result to come out until April/late March). Stanford is probably similar unless the applicant really impresses them. I think H will take you, or at least waitlist you. Yes, your numbers are excellent, but there are other factors that might affect your chances. Maybe your UG institution is not good enough? Your recs are not positive enough? You showed too much of arrogance in your applications? Anyway, I don't think 1 year's WE will do much good.

Just want to say that UG "prestige" makes close to zero difference and would never keep someone with stellar numbers from being admitted.

[drawstring]

My UG isn't HYP, but it's not crap and it sends people to HLS pretty much every year, including this one. Not sure about Yale and Stanford.....

[lawschool22]

My UG isn't HYP, but it's not crap and it sends people to HLS pretty much every year, including this one. Not sure about Yale and Stanford.....

That's fine, but still that wouldn't matter either way. Higher incidents of people in top law schools from top undergrads is largely a self-selection / non-representative sample sort of issue. Your higher qualified students are more likely to have gone to a top UG, etc. Not to mention many top private UG's are notorious for padding grades, which also helps one get into top law schools.

In any case, we know from people inside the admissions game that undergrad choice is nearly irrelevant to your chances.