Top Law Schools

3.8, 167. Master's degree. What are my chances of acceptance and scholarships?

Not retaking, fyi.

ED UVA.... prolly no scholly, but solid chance at admittance

gaucholaw wrote:ED UVA.... prolly no scholly, but solid chance at admittance

Below both medians? Prolly not.

Retake

What's a Gornell?

BigZuck wrote:Retake

What's a Gornell?

It's a new infilaw school. You should see the size of their library!

outlawscr10 wrote:3.8, 167. Master's degree. What are my chances of acceptance and scholarships?

Not retaking, fyi.

Not worth going to law school, fyi

hichvichwoh wrote:

outlawscr10 wrote:3.8, 167. Master's degree. What are my chances of acceptance and scholarships?

Not retaking, fyi.

Not worth going to law school, fyi

I wouldn't go that far, but he should retake. Michigan or Cornell with some money is a decent enough deal if someone is OK with handling that debt. But why force yourself into those outcomes?

hichvichwoh wrote:

outlawscr10 wrote:3.8, 167. Master's degree. What are my chances of acceptance and scholarships?

Not retaking, fyi.

Not worth going to law school, fyi

Tell me of your experiences in the job market.

I also have a masters, a 3.8 and 167 with no desire to retake - I can't speak to scholarships, but I was accepted to Duke via their priority track. I didn't apply to your other listed schools, and haven't heard from any of my other T10s yet, but I have all my appendages crossed and I wish you luck!

Rbos2017 wrote:I also have a masters, a 3.8 and 167 with no desire to retake - I can't speak to scholarships, but I was accepted to Duke via their priority track. I didn't apply to your other listed schools, and haven't heard from any of my other T10s yet, but I have all my appendages crossed and I wish you luck!

That's hopeful! Cheers--best of luck to you as well.

I think it is an exaggeration to say that someone with a 167/3.8 shouldnt be going to law school. There are still good options at that level, particularly with declining applications.

jbagelboy wrote:I think it is an exaggeration to say that someone with a 167/3.8 shouldnt be going to law school. There are still good options at that level, particularly with declining applications.

This is true, but 167 still seems like a waste of a 3.8, especially since it sounds like the 167 was a first attempt.

outlawscr10 wrote:

hichvichwoh wrote:

outlawscr10 wrote:3.8, 167. Master's degree. What are my chances of acceptance and scholarships?

Not retaking, fyi.

Not worth going to law school, fyi

Tell me of your experiences in the job market.

The only jobs that can repay sticker are in biglaw. But why pay sticker to get biglaw just so you can sink your early years of salary into repaying debt, instead of sucking it up and getting a few more points on a freaking standardized test? Honestly, if you can't apply yourself to do better on something as trivial as the LSAT, don't dive headfirst into law school.

I guess if you're fully committed to PI then you can just go to any school with a great LRAP program, in which case disregard.

hichvichwoh wrote:

outlawscr10 wrote:

hichvichwoh wrote:

outlawscr10 wrote:3.8, 167. Master's degree. What are my chances of acceptance and scholarships?

Not retaking, fyi.

Not worth going to law school, fyi

Tell me of your experiences in the job market.

The only jobs that can repay sticker are in biglaw. But why pay sticker to get biglaw just so you can sink your early years of salary into repaying debt, instead of sucking it up and getting a few more points on a freaking standardized test? Honestly, if you can't apply yourself to do better on something as trivial as the LSAT, don't dive headfirst into law school.

I guess if you're fully committed to PI then you can just go to any school with a great LRAP program, in which case disregard.

You're oversimplifying the job market (of which you apparently have no experience), the nuances of loan repayment, and my personal situation (of which you have no knowledge).

The average 3-year cost of law school is between 250-280k (for the top schools). If you can get a 100k scholarship, you're still looking at close to 200k in cost. Over decades and decades of your career, a 100k difference in debt isn't sufficient enough to turn "worth it" to "not worth it." You're making an expensive investment in yourself, whether it be 150k or 250k. On a 10-year traditional plan, you're going to be paying 3k a month; Big Law jobs pay 10-13k a month. It's a whole different scenario if you go graduated payment or a 25-year plan.

hichvichwoh wrote:

outlawscr10 wrote:

hichvichwoh wrote:

outlawscr10 wrote:
Not worth going to law school, fyi

Tell me of your experiences in the job market.

The only jobs that can repay sticker are in biglaw. But why pay sticker to get biglaw just so you can sink your early years of salary into repaying debt, instead of sucking it up and getting a few more points on a freaking standardized test? Honestly, if you can't apply yourself to do better on something as trivial as the LSAT, don't dive headfirst into law school.

I guess if you're fully committed to PI then you can just go to any school with a great LRAP program, in which case disregard.

You're oversimplifying the job market (of which you apparently have no experience), the nuances of loan repayment, and my personal situation (of which you have no knowledge).

The average 3-year cost of law school is between 250-280k (for the top schools). If you can get a 100k scholarship, you're still looking at close to 200k in cost. Over decades and decades of your career, a 100k difference in debt isn't sufficient enough to turn "worth it" to "not worth it." You're making an expensive investment in yourself, whether it be 150k or 250k. On a 10-year traditional plan, you're going to be paying 3k a month; Big Law jobs pay 10-13k a month. It's a whole different scenario if you go graduated payment or a 25-year plan.

I agree with this.

maybe "not worth going" is too harsh, but the point stands that you should definitely retake. the marginal cost of retaking the LSAT is so insignificant, it's the easiest 100k you could possibly ever hope to "make."

Retake. Don't be a silly billy, you silly little billy

step by step guide on how to end up having an extra 100k at some points in the future

path a: retake lsat, get lots more scholarship money at the same school

path b: spend an extra year and a half in biglaw. but unfortunately, this isn't going to make up for the lost time, so also make sure you live a year and a half longer than you were expecting to.

hope this helps.

Exceedingly stupid not to retake. An ED app to NU -- or perhaps even negotiation after the February LSAT -- with a 172 would bag a $150K scholarship, which would mean owing ~$100K at repayment instead of ~$285K.

Ti Malice wrote:Exceedingly stupid not to retake. An ED app to NU -- or perhaps even negotiation after the February LSAT -- with a 172 would bag a $150K scholarship, which would mean owing ~$100K at repayment instead of ~$285K.

If he's just loaning out COL, it should be way less than $100K, too.

.

Otunga wrote:

Ti Malice wrote:Exceedingly stupid not to retake. An ED app to NU -- or perhaps even negotiation after the February LSAT -- with a 172 would bag a $150K scholarship, which would mean owing ~$100K at repayment instead of ~$285K.

If he's just loaning out COL, it should be way less than $100K, too.

It's not just COL. The $50K per year doesn't cover all of the tuition/fees. COA is over $76K for this year and will rise with yearly tuition increases.

I have similar numbers as OP and work and Peace Corps experience. I have already been accepted to Duke and GULC (and Michigan), so I would say that OP has great chances. Scholarship money, however is yet to be determined. Oh, I also had an interview with a Northwestern Alumni, which went pretty well.

I guess I am feeling this pressure too to retake, retake, retake! This is my second cycle, although I only took the LSAT once. I scored a 166, which was average to high for my practice tests. I took a live course and studied all day every day for over two months. I was not working, and for the last month I was not in school. I just don't have the luxury of that kind of time anymore.

I also have a need based LSAC waiver which granted me two free LSATs, which I applied to after the peace corps when I had only a few hundred dollars to my name. Thanks Lsac!

Would it be worth it to retake in February, hold onto my acceptances, try for more money if I score higher, or just not report scores if I score lower? I forget how it works if schools automatically know, but they wouldn't revoke an acceptance if I got a 165 lets say on the retake.

My main concern is that I really felt like I did my best on the test the first time (in 2009). I am PI oriented and very debt adverse.

Any thoughts/advice?

I said I wasn't retaking because I have a graduate exam in German comprehension scheduled on the same day as the December LSAT. And waiting for the next cycle isn't an option. I thought that stating that I wasn't retaking would have been enough, sheesh.