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Post removed.

Other than the scouting involvement and the charitable organization you founded, I don't think most of that falls under the category of "softs", although you have the makings for a hell of a personal statement.

But mostly, I just want to say that you should definitely apply to HYS, even if you have to beg or borrow the money for the application fees. Yes, you're under their GPA medians, but a 180 puts you well above the 75th percentile at any school, and stratospheric GPAs are relatively cheap compared to stratospheric LSAT scores. This is particularly important with the ongoing drop in applications, since schools are having a harder time holding on to their LSAT medians (this is more of a factor outside of HYS, though).

Outside of HYS, you should be able to get fat money at a variety of T14 schools.

Saw the numbers, didn't bother reading anything else. You'll have a good cycle.

http://www.mylsn.info

You have a solid chance pretty much everywhere. MyLSN doesn't give you particularly great chances at YS, but at the very least it seems worth it to try to get a need-based fee waiver from them if the app fee is the only thing holding you back from applying.

Last cycle:

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/Tyrrhus
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/jyrkchicken

Both had sub-3.8; one of them got HS, the other got H (Y is always a wildcard).

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I am a non-URM with your exact numbers. I went to NYU on about a half scholarship. Didn't crack Columbia or HY.

We obviously have different views on AA, but just take this for what it is worth: 1) your AA status is PART of your merit, because you have had different life experiences than a more privileged person and will bring a viewpoint to the table that might not be there otherwise. 2) Your childhood poverty, on its own, will help you basically not at all. Schools don't give a crap about admitting poor white people because they get no credit for it. They probably should, but as things stand, on paper they're just yet more white people. But one justification for AA is the strong, continuing correlation between URM status and poverty. You can write a compelling PS and it'll help you as much as a PS ever does, which is very little, but the only way to leverage that poverty the way you deserve to is to claim the AA status.

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BaiAilian2013 wrote:I am a non-URM with your exact numbers. I went to NYU on about a half scholarship. Didn't crack Columbia or HY.

Would '09-'10 not be a pretty different analysis than '13-'14?

While I totally respect your personal beliefs and see where you're coming from, affirmative action isn't just for your benefit, it's for the school's benefit as well. Law schools really want to create a diverse class, and typically try and take students with numbers that they wouldn't normally take in order to achieve that goal. By being able to list you as part of the Native American enrollment come ABA-reporting time, they're able to properly represent their class to incoming students, like myself, that choose law schools based on their commitment to diversity.

On top of that, there's a huge physical benefit to listing your race. Right now, you're probably in at H, and you'll likely get decent money from CCN. With the boost the school gives you, you're definitely in at H and S, and probably in at Y, with full rides from at least Chicago and NYU. This isn't just a prestige thing, it's a matter of both scholarship money and better opportunities coming out of law school.

If you really don't like the idea of using your race as an admissions card, don't check the NA box on the form, but write a diversity statement about your connections to your Cherokee tribe. You won't get a boost in the same way as if you'd checked the box (because the school can't report it to the ABA), but you can still showcase your diversity based on your background narratively.

OP should keep in mind, however, that BaiAilian applied in the '09/'10 cycle, which was at or near the peak number of law school applications. In this low-turnout cycle, it should be clear that a non-URM 3.79/180 will go significantly farther than it did back then. That said, the OP should not compromise his/her views about affirmative action out of perceived necessity. Even without it, these numbers will perform extremely well.

ETA: Scooped by Bedsole

Too bad you have these silly qualms about listing yourself as a URM, because I'd think you'd be a shoe-in at Yale with your stats + URM (assuming you can write a cogent 250 and PS...and it sounds like you have great material to draw from).

But none of HYS have hard floors of 3.8, as LSN can attest to, so you'd have a decent chance at all of them even without URM: http://mylsn.info/upnqm6

Honestly though, why don't you want to take advantage of AA? White people take advantage of being white every day. I'm sure you've heard of the studies in which researchers send off identical resumes to employers, one set with white-sounding names like Blake and one set with black-sounding names like Tyrone, and found that the Blakes get called for interviews way more often than the Tyrones. At the law school admissions level, rich white kids often hire people to help them with their apps, get legacy boosts, hire private LSAT tutors, and/or have the opportunity to quit their jobs to study for the LSAT full-time. This ain't no pure meritocracy.

Also, you should be able to get an LSAC fee waiver if you're just below the poverty line. If that doesn't work out, go directly to the schools. I can't imagine any school wouldn't give you one.

slackademic wrote:Didn't even read the URM thing. Hold up:

That

If you're smart enough not to use your URM status your smart enough to figure out your chances on your own.

I think if he's technically an URM BUT FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES he has the advantages a typical white person has...then I applaud his decision to not use his URM advantage, as at that point, it IS an unfair advantage. If, however, like many URMs, he doesn't have the advantages a typical white person has, then by all means, don't feel bad AT ALL in using that URM status. Of course, just because his decision would be applaudable in the former case, it doesn't mean it's the wisest decision considering the big boost URM status has.

As I further read the post, this person (I was just using he to simplify, no idea what they are) does appear to be disadvantaged in ways many URMs are, so use that status. It makes sense given what you've had to deal with AND it'll boost your apps significantly.

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slackademic wrote:OP's chances are good and this thread is nothing but self-congratulatory striverdom, which suggests to me that OP will fit right in at Harvard.

ZVBXRPL wrote:If you're smart enough not to use your URM status your smart enough to figure out your chances on your own.

ImNoScar wrote:

ZVBXRPL wrote:If you're smart enough not to use your URM status your smart enough to figure out your chances on your own.

My guess is that he means "If you're smart enough to be able to forego using your URM status and still be able to achieve very highly..."

Post removed.

Bedsole wrote:

ImNoScar wrote:

ZVBXRPL wrote:If you're smart enough not to use your URM status your smart enough to figure out your chances on your own.

My guess is that he means "If you're smart enough to be able to forego using your URM status and still be able to achieve very highly..."

Ah, ok, that makes far more sense than how I was reading it.

OP,

I deeply admire your principles and commitment to be judged for who you are as a person not as a member of a group; don't let the naysayers get you down.

MistakenGenius wrote:

slackademic wrote:Look, I don't know why people start these threads. If you have an interesting life story AND amazing stats, then why bother asking? So a 3.8ish isn't ZOMG at these schools. It's still very, very good. No one here can answer your question and it's irrelevant to whether you'll apply. Can you honestly tell me that any response on here would convince you not to apply to HYS or any other institutions you'd otherwise apply to?

If the answer to the above question is no, then the post is masturbation.

I can genuinely say yes. Most people already in law school I've talked to told me I had no chance at HYS. As you heard from that one guy, my scores wouldn't get me into Columbia in his day. I hate borrowing money but that is what I'll have to do for schools I don't have fee waivers for. If more qualified people than myself said don't waste people's money, then I wouldn't bother with the three.

Also, I really do understand where you guys are coming from about affirmative action. I do see the benefit of a diverse class, because I can see why my life experiences would differ from the standard T-14 student. That said, Yale and scholarship money are not worth me compromising my principles. My presence at a school will add to that class' diversity. I want to be accepted out of actual accomplishment, not because of the color of my skin. If Yale and Stanford wouldn't take me if I was white, then I don't need to be there anyway. I will never agree that my race has anything to do with my merit. These schools will just give me an acceptance letter or a handout in exchange for being able to check off a little box. My dad worked 16 hours a day when I was a child to provide for my family and so we didn't have to have welfare or food stamps. I could never live with myself to spit on that sacrifice. Just my opinion.

TwentyPercent, I might follow your advice about discussing it in a personal statement. That way it is just in a statement about myself, not a box which will give me an unfair advantage.

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slackademic wrote:

This. And...

californiauser wrote:

This

I mean, the high horse is really weird to me but I guess it's cool to have principles

Anyway, I'm not sure why this thread exists

#mylsn.info