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Non Trad for H?
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:31 pm
by Chris20085
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Re: Non Trad for H?
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:46 pm
by Clearly
Unfortunately I don't think it's realistic with c and f disclosures, and that undergrad gpa, regardless of how awesome the softs might be
Re: Non Trad for H?
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:52 pm
by AllTheLawz
You are really going to have to put together an awesome app package to overcome that. With a 2.7 gpa, it sounds like your undergrad record wasn't that impressive even beyond the withdrawal semester. Unfortunately, most people have very high MA/PhD gpas so that doesn't really do much to help you either (would be helpful, however, if the MBA/PhD was at UChicago, Northwestern or maybe Michigan).
Unfortunately, the rest of those softs are pretty run of the mill. One thing that would be extremely helpful is getting a couple of years of decently high-level work experience. Harvard has been focusing pretty hard on work experience these last few years.
Re: Non Trad for H?
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:01 pm
by californiauser
Your softs aren't nearly as impressive as you think they are.
Re: Non Trad for H?
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:10 pm
by IAFG
Yeah those aren't the panty-dropping softs the people around you believe them to be. Congress writes a lot of LORs.
Re: Non Trad for H?
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:14 pm
by BFlanagan
Break 170+ LSAT then ED Gulc, or maybe Cornell or NU. So little data on this stuff, and such competition.
Re: Non Trad for H?
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:21 pm
by t-14orbust
Yup no one cares that your Senator wrote you a letter. I doubt they can attest to your academic abilities lol. You definitely are not a lock at harvard, or even close to that. Sorry to say, but unless you are a URM, you're a longshot. Good luck though! There are other T14s that might be interested in your app package.
Re: Non Trad for H?
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:24 pm
by Stinson
You sound like a dedicated guy, but the fact is law school admissions just don't work the way you're hoping they do. There is some - very little - give at the margins for particular circumstances, particular schools, and particular accomplishments, but at the end of the day it's numbers, numbers, numbers. The MA GPA may well be more representative of your abilities than your undergrad, but law schools weigh undergrad GPA much more highly and it's unlikely you'll get into a school you want with a 2.7. If you completely destroy the LSAT as another poster said you might have luck with ED'ing to some of the lower T14. But if Harvard and the like are where you are thinking, it's not gonna happen. I looked at the last three cycles on LSN, and they show no acceptances below 3.3, and of the the two 3.3's, one was a 180 on the LSAT and the other was a URM with a 179.
You sound like you can put together an impressive resume; if you aren't totally dead set on law, it would be a good idea to think about how you might leverage that into success in a field that doesn't care as much about undergraduate GPA.
Re: Non Trad for H?
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:25 pm
by Golden Bear 11
californiauser wrote:Your softs aren't nearly as impressive as you think they are.
Re: Non Trad for H?
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:44 pm
by Ti Malice
H is completely out of the question with that uGPA, as is most of the T14. If your "top tier" LSAT is a 172 or better (or maybe even just 170 these days), you stand a pretty good chance of getting into Northwestern at or near sticker. And, to echo what others have said, no adcomm will care about your LOR from a senator.
Re: Non Trad for H?
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:51 pm
by haus
While I agree with the general consensus that your odds are not good at Harvard, I do not think it is out the realm of possibility.
Go ahead and submit an application, the worst they are likely to do is turn you down.
Re: Non Trad for H?
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:58 pm
by Steveloblaw
Agree that it's not out of the realm of possibility, but just to give you a small idea - U Chicago lowest matriculation GPA for the previous cycle was 3.04.
http://www.law.uchicago.edu/files/file/ ... 013-14.pdf
A GPA sub 3 will be a long shot
Re: Non Trad for H?
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:35 pm
by Ti Malice
With OP's softs as listed, it's utterly out of the realm of possibility. If he were a MacArthur "Genius" Grant recipient, an Olympic gold medalist, a person of major renown and influence in his academic field, or an orphan war refugee, then things would be different. But there's nothing at all jawdropping about his softs -- nothing that will move the chances of a non-URM with a 2.7 into non-zero territory.
But $100 isn't too much of a sacrifice for staving off an eternity of regret and second-guessing. And this debate is probably just academic anyway, since it seems from his post that he might have already submitted his app to H.
Re: Non Trad for H?
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:54 pm
by hephaestus
californiauser wrote:Your softs aren't nearly as impressive as you think they are.
This.
Re: Non Trad for H?
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:03 pm
by DrStudMuffin
Chris20085 wrote:I am a nontraditional, 28 yo white male applicant with an M.A., Ph.D., and M.B.A. I am publishing my first book, have substantive work experience in NY, and a top tier LSAT. But, in undergraduate (9 years ago as a sophomore) I was academically dismissed after missing 2 weeks due to illness and failing to withdraw by the medical deadline, and so it remains a pure academic dismissal on my record (and a 2.7 lsac GPA). Although this was 9 years ago, I am of the mindset (based largely on TLS) that my life accomplishments since then are of little value.
Following my academic dismissal, I returned to my undergraduate institution (elite LAC) and managed to graduate with an upward trend, Dean's List, and a double B.A. I then completed an M.A. with 3.95 GPA, and then an M.B.A./Ph.D. with 3.8 GPA from a major research school in the Mid-west. I have stellar LOR form high ranking faculty, extra circulars, and also a letter from my home state's U.S. Senator (100% serious). Although i have been told that I am "lock" at Harvard for the aforementioned reasons, I am still unsure given my undergraduate debacle 9 years ago. I am uncertain whether waiting on a regular decision from Harvard is a smart bet when I can ED with more confidence to other schools. I have heard mixed opinions, and would like the opinion of those members who may actually have first hand experience of non trad at the top tier schools. Thank you.
Why the hell are you going to law school?
Re: Non Trad for H?
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:49 pm
by MyNameIsFlynn!
Harvard's floor is 3.5
Re: Non Trad for H?
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:56 pm
by NanaP
Chris20085 wrote:I am a nontraditional, 28 yo white male applicant with an M.A., Ph.D., and M.B.A. I am publishing my first book, have substantive work experience in NY, and a top tier LSAT. But, in undergraduate (9 years ago as a sophomore) I was academically dismissed after missing 2 weeks due to illness and failing to withdraw by the medical deadline, and so it remains a pure academic dismissal on my record (and a 2.7 lsac GPA). Although this was 9 years ago, I am of the mindset (based largely on TLS) that my life accomplishments since then are of little value.
Following my academic dismissal, I returned to my undergraduate institution (elite LAC) and managed to graduate with an upward trend, Dean's List, and a double B.A. I then completed an M.A. with 3.95 GPA, and then an M.B.A./Ph.D. with 3.8 GPA from a major research school in the Mid-west. I have stellar LOR form high ranking faculty, extra circulars, and also a letter from my home state's U.S. Senator (100% serious). Although i have been told that I am "lock" at Harvard for the aforementioned reasons, I am still unsure given my undergraduate debacle 9 years ago. I am uncertain whether waiting on a regular decision from Harvard is a smart bet when I can ED with more confidence to other schools. I have heard mixed opinions, and would like the opinion of those members who may actually have first hand experience of non trad at the top tier schools. Thank you.
It just looks like your racking up degrees....why do u want to go to law school? What will you do with a law degree? What did you do with your PHD/MBA or MA for that matter...are you willing to take on 200k in debt? Right now it looks like you have no direction as to what you want to do with your life.
Re: Non Trad for H?
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:07 pm
by UnicornHunter
What's the book?
Re: Non Trad for H?
Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:22 am
by twenty
I'd try and retroactively withdraw from your bad semesters. If you have a legitimate medical reason (and two weeks of mental health issues, this should be easy enough to prove?), you might get enough of those issues taken care of to where you can at least get up to a post-3.0 number, which would make you good for UVA, NU, GULC and maybe NYU.
Re: Non Trad for H?
Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:22 pm
by Toby Ziegler
twentypercentmore wrote:I'd try and retroactively withdraw from your bad semesters. If you have a legitimate medical reason (and two weeks of mental health issues, this should be easy enough to prove?), you might get enough of those issues taken care of to where you can at least get up to a post-3.0 number, which would make you good for UVA, NU, GULC and maybe NYU.
This is exactly what I was going to say. I have heard of individuals who were able to have failing grades ( for not withdrawing properly) changed to non-punitive W's. The particular indivdual I am thinking about had to solicit the instructor of the course for the grade change, which may be tricky if they are no longer on the faculty of your school.
Re: Non Trad for H?
Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:44 pm
by jbagelboy
If you've gotten 3 graduate degrees and none of them have satisfied your life goals and pedagogic purposes this far, its extraordinarily unlikely a JD will, Harvard or no Harvard.
And as another poster mentioned, Harvard Law has a GPA floor of 3.5 for white people , regardless of how many other degrees or WE you have. So its a moot point
Re: Non Trad for H?
Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:31 pm
by bouleversement
MyNameIsFlynn! wrote:Harvard's floor is 3.5
Yesterday perhaps. Tomorrow, who can really say?
Post removed.
Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 1:04 pm
by MistakenGenius
Post removed.
Re: Non Trad for H?
Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 1:20 pm
by wiz
bouleversement wrote:MyNameIsFlynn! wrote:Harvard's floor is 3.5
Yesterday perhaps. Tomorrow, who can really say?
Harvard's floor was a 3.7 yesterday. It's somewhere in the 3.5 to 3.6 range today. It won't be 2.7 tomorrow.
Re: Non Trad for H?
Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 1:39 pm
by thewaves
The bigger question is, why do you want a law degree? You seem like a degree shopper. This is $250k of debt.